Thread: Inspiration

  1. #1

    Inspiration

    Is this a must have talent for a PvE holy priest?

  2. #2
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Inspiration

    As far as I'm concerned, it pretty much always was. I think with the changes now, it's absolutely a mandatory talent now, if it wasn't before, because it will affect magical damage as well, and since Holy is raid healing, and does run a fair bit of Crit, this could do a lot to help mitigate raid damage. So, you'll keep more people alive with this change, so I approve.

  3. #3
    The Patient Iannis's Avatar
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    Re: Inspiration

    I'd say it's also important for Disc. spec as well. Since as disc you usually try to have a very high crit rate, the extra damage reduction will be sweet for tank healing. I can't recall if the glyph of PW:S heal crit procs it or not.. hmm.. that would be sweet

  4. #4

    Re: Inspiration

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq
    ...because it will affect magical damage as well...
    It will only effect physical damage. However:

    As far as holy goes, this is a nice buff to raid healing. 10% phyDR is much better on low AC classes than a 25% armor buff.

    For Disc and tank healing, I am uncertain whether this is a buff or a nerf. The 25% AC bonus is scalable with the target's gear, however, the 10% DR is not. On the flip side, I'm pretty sure that AC has diminishing returns, where the 10% DR will not. Someone will have to run the maths on this.

  5. #5

    Re: Inspiration

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritusVex
    Someone will have to run the maths on this.
    I'll try. For 1 thing, the armor cap against a level 83 boss is 49905. That gets you to the cap of 75% damage reduction. So if a tank has over 39920 armor, the full 25% armor isn't "used."

    Besides that, I don't think there is much diminishing returns. There's this table on wowwiki that shows each addition 5k armor experiences around 1% less damage reduction than the previous 5k armor starting at 25k armor but they also said it's not really noticeable in the real world as compared to looking at the absolute numbers.

    Here's another table...the main thing I was looking at. The meat of this post, if you will.

        Armor Required for Damage Reduction

    Enemy lvl 50%     60%     70%     75%(Cap)

       80       15233   22849   35543   45698
       83       16635   24953   38815   49905

    So VS a lvl 83 mob, to gain 10% DR when you're at ~25k armor, you need ~14k more armor, which 25%(6250) more armor does not accomplish.

    If you're at ~39k armor, you need an additional ~10k armor to reach the cap, which 25%(9750) more armor does not accomplish.

    I also don't know what most average tanks sit at these days as far as armor goes, if I knew that we could make a better assumption on which version is better. If they are under ~39k armor, the new talent is definitely better the more armor under 39k you are, as they approach 40k armor, it's pretty much the same since there is a cap eventually around that mark and both the 25% and the 10%DR will hit the cap from that much armor. The extra 25% armor also never nets 10%DR, although it can get you to the cap just as easy as the DR% when you are over 39k armor.

    So from the sound of that, it looks like the pure DR% is better if not the same on tanks, and most definitely better on tanks with lower than average armor and non plate classes. My guess is that overall this a decent buff, but of course, as the game goes on and caps/stats increase this will change

    EDIT** I could be way off, I'm not claiming to know it all or that this is 100% correct, for the most part it's based off of a few formulas on wowwiki, thanks!

    Also, is the 75% DR cap just for armor, or is that the cap for all DR type buffs? Either way this change is better, but it would be even more so if you could go over 75% DR with other buffs after armor.

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  6. #6

    Re: Inspiration

    Its already pretty easy for tanks to armor cap from certain buffs, armor will only go up in 3.2 so this change is pretty necessary.

    While it may technically be a nerf to actual damage reduction by this effect, I consider it to be an overall buff since it will now stack with other things to achieve a greater overall effect.

  7. #7

    Re: Inspiration

    Quote Originally Posted by G l o w y r m
    So from the sound of that, it looks like the pure DR% is about the same if nota little better on tanks, and most definitely better on tanks with lower than average armor and non plate classes. My guess is that overall this a decent buff

    EDIT** I could be way off, I'm not claiming to know it all or that this is 100% correct, for the most part it's based off of a few formulas on wowwiki, thanks!
    The one thing I forgot to mention above is DR is taken off *after* pure armor. The description given in the notes says "reduces physical damage taken," which I'm assuming is a DR effect. I could be wrong. If that is the case, the maths are a little more complicated. For instance:

    1000 base hit 1000 base hit
    50% mitigated from armor 55% mitigated from armor (roughly a 25% armor increase)
    500 mitigated hit 450 Final
    10% DR
    450 Final
    -----
    1000 base hit 1000 base hit
    60% from armor 64.5% mitigated from armor (rough 25%)
    400 sub-hit 355 Final
    10% DR
    360 Final
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As the tank reaches the armor cap, the gap between the two versions of Inspiration close and the new Inspiration becomes better:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1000 base hit 1000 base hit
    72% from armor 74.875 from armor
    280 sub-hit 251.25 Final
    10% DR
    252 Final
    ------
    1000 base hit 1000 base hit
    73% from armor 75%(CAPPED) mitigated from armor (A 25% increase of the armor necessary for 73% mitigation is greater than the cap)
    270 sub-hit 250 Final
    10% DR
    243 Final
    -------
    1000 base hit 1000 base hit
    74% from armor 75%(CAPPED) from armor
    260 sub-hit 250 Final
    10% DR
    234 Final

    For the "long post is long" crowd: The new inspiration becomes better when your tank has reached 73% mitigation from armor. From 50% to 72%, the new inspiration is a nerf.

    EDIT: This is a direct comparison between the new and old versions. It does not factor in any new synergy this may create.

  8. #8

    Re: Inspiration

    With resilience change, I believe Inspiration will be a talent many pvp priests will take. I wouldn't find it odd that tanks start using pvp gear in raids.

  9. #9
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Inspiration

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritusVex
    It will only effect physical damage.
    Thanks for pointing that out; I'd somehow missed that when I read the notes.

    Also, thanks for the math, saves me the trouble. So it looks like it might be a slight nerf for tank healing, so it hurts Discipline some, but since it is better for lower armor, I'd consider it a slight buff for Holy. So, not as awesome of a change as I'd thought at first, but it's still an essential talent for either Healing spec.

    I'm not sure whether or not it will gain usefulness in PVP, it's still not that easy to get my Crit and talent points are sparse. I think it will take some experimentation.

  10. #10

    Re: Inspiration

    Inspiration used to be a talent priests never skiped, wotlk came and i see many priests skip it.

    It has zero pvp value. Priests that never healed tanks (causals even, that dodn't even prom him), used to skip this talent with the excuse of 'i never heal tanks'.

    The new change to this talent gives it a pvp value as well as a pve value. I hope they also update the 2nd part of the talent :
    "...after getting a critical effect from your Flash Heal, Heal, Greater Heal, Binding Heal, Penance, Prayer of Healing, or Circle of Healing spell."

    And change this into "after geting a critical effect from your Healing spells". After all Empowered renew can also crit.

    I have always picked up this talent for PvE raiding, i see the change as more valuable but almost equal to the armor increase, I've made a Calculation myself acroding to the armor of our MT, and the damage reduction is better - since he's armor caped. When it comes to pvp i think its pretty obvious the damage redution makes this talent a valiable pick for pvp.

    I hope to see more talents geting updated in our tree. (talents like "Improved healing" that refer to heal and lesser heal, more talents that include empowered renew in it).

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Inspiration

    Quote Originally Posted by nikkita
    When it comes to pvp i think its pretty obvious the damage redution makes this talent a valiable pick for pvp.
    Most priests (me included) don't even skill divine aegis and the 5% holy crit because both crit on gear and talent points are scarce. I don't suppose anyone will skill this for pvp unless it goes down to tier 1 or 2 in the holy tree.
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  12. #12

    Re: Inspiration

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritusVex
    The one thing I forgot to mention above is DR is taken off *after* pure armor. &#160;The description given in the notes says "reduces physical damage taken," which I'm assuming is a DR effect. &#160;I could be wrong. &#160;If that is the case, the maths are a little more complicated.
    Ahh yeah that makes sense. That kinda stinks, the DR is taken off on a smaller number because armor got to go first. Most likely it works the way you said. At least it's really easy to get armor capped.

    The amount that old Inspiration is better by isn't that big in the 50%-72& range and it gets lesser as you get closer to the cap so overall, since the change is better for people with low armor, it would be considered a buff I think.

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  13. #13

    Re: Inspiration

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    Most priests (me included) don't even skill divine aegis and the 5% holy crit because both crit on gear and talent points are scarce. I don't suppose anyone will skill this for pvp unless it goes down to tier 1 or 2 in the holy tree.
    who was talking about picking the skill, or how many points, again: no one was talking about a specific built, just the value of the talent.

    it has now a pvp value (whether you pick it or not) - a physical damage reduction now makes it valiable for pvp and pve, something that happens on many talents....

    as i wrote: armor increase doesn't have any pvp value, but was good only for pve, phyical damage reduction does. sounds kinda stupid saying it has no pvp value because you don't want to pick it.

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Inspiration

    Quote Originally Posted by nikkita
    who was talking about picking the skill, or how many points, again: no one was talking about a specific built, just the value of the talent.

    it has now a pvp value (whether you pick it or not) - a physical damage reduction now makes it valiable for pvp and pve, something that happens on many talents....

    as i wrote: armor increase doesn't have any pvp value, but was good only for pve, phyical damage reduction does. sounds kinda stupid saying it has no pvp value because you don't want to pick it.
    25% more armor was already plenty good in pvp before. Even with Cloth (and Inner Fire especially) 25% more amore provides a lot of mitigation. That's exactly why the Inner Fire Glyph is so good in PVP. But if you don't crit (which we usually don't seeing we have almost no crit at all via our pvp set) it doesn't matter if its 10% less damage taken or 25% more armor, it will still be kinda useless especially if you have to spend 13 points in holy to get it.

    Edit: I wrote "amore" instead of armor. But it's such a hilarious typo I'm gonna leave it at that. Mmmm... 25% more amore!
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