PVE Nerfs to Ret DPS?

[Handsylton]

Anyone bother to calculate 5 stacks of SoCorr then switching to SoComm to see the damage possibly gained from I guess you'd call it Seal Dancing. I think that might have really good burst potential and will be great in pvp and pve. Just something that might make the pally want to Seal Dance.

I'm assuming that the 33% holy damage buff would only continue as long as Seal of Vengeance was active. Another problem with seal dancing right now is that going back and forth between them would cost WAYYYY too much mana to be concievable.

The "double crit" and "33% weapon damage as holy" will more than likely only apply when using Seal of Veng.

Also, with seals costing 500 or so mana, it would be too taxing to be switching seals twice every 10-15 seconds.

You beat me to that post by like 5 seconds lol

[Varon]

updated my prevoius post to take replenishment into account for the CS section

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.ph...496#msg1047496

CS 8% base mana 4sec cd
DS 12% base mana 10 sec cd
Judge 5% base mana 8 sec cd
Exo 8% base mana 15 sec cd
Consec 22% base mana 8 sec cd
HoWrath 12% base mana 6 sec cd

JotW 25% base mana restored (33% with new SoComm glyph)
Replenishment 1% per second restored

24 sec combat with no SoComm

3x Judge +60% mana (+25% -5%) x3
Replenishmant + 24% mana
= 84% mana restored
2x Exo -16% mana
6x CS -48% mana
2x DS -24% mana
= -4% mana

24 sec with SoComm glyph:

3x Judge +84% mana (+25% -5% +8%)x3
Replenishmant + 24% mana
= 108% mana restored
2x Exo -16% mana
6x CS -48% mana
2x DS -24% mana
= +20% mana

2 min of combat = 120% mana form replenishment, 50% mana from 2x Divine Plea = 170%

15x Judge = 300% mana restored
sums up to 470% mana restored

30 CS 240% mana
12 DS 144% mana
8 Exo 120% mana
= -504% mana
that means over 2 min fight we lose 34% of our mana



30 CS 240% mana
12 DS 144% mana
8 Exo 120% mana
15 cons 330 % mana
= -834%
this means we are oom by a large scale we used up 364% of our mana ... well without SoComm glyph no consec

with SoComm glyph
2 min of combat = 120% mana form replenishment, 50% mana from 2x Divine Plea = 170%

15x Judge = 420% mana restored
sums up to 590% mana restored


30 CS 240% mana
12 DS 144% mana
8 Exo 120% mana
= -504% mana
in 2 minutes we regenerated 86% of our mana


30 CS 240% mana
12 DS 144% mana
8 Exo 120% mana
15 cons 330 % mana
= -834%

well we are still oom when using SoComm glyph and consec ... we used up 244% of our mana

As it looks we could dps right through with SoCorr losing 34% mana per 2 min not using Consec and will be oom after about 6 min

With SoComm we still can't do 2 min with Consec up all time but we might do 30 sec with consec than 90 sec without
30 sec with consec will use up about 61% of our mana then 90 sec without it will regen 64,5%; rinse and repeat.

Well it looks like we need to look if 30/120 sec consec make up the dps done by the SoCorr DoT to determine wich seal is better for our PVE perfomance.

See you soon on PTR ... once I get some numbers i'll report back ^^

[arel00]

Keep dreaming, as that will never happen.

Btw, GG on Blizzard forcing Prot Paladins to pull with a taunt when using their Shield isn't ideal (Trash that is CC'd, etc), unless they don't mind standing still for 1.5 seconds.

WTB Paladin Version of Heroic Throw

Sorry, I just had to bite here.

Avenger Shield does NOT hit mobs under Crowd Control. If there are 2 mobs, 2 are already a sheep when you throw AS, the shield will SKIP those two mobs and just hit one target.

Please, do yourself a favor. Get a clue.

[Deleted]

As of right now it looks like ret pve will use SoV/SoCorr instead of seal of command.

Or so that SoC seems to be the trash mob seal for fights that are over too soon to gain any benefit from stacking debuffs. SoV seems to be made for stationary boss fights.

[Handsylton]

Command is gonna offer a lot more frontloaded burst than Vengeance, but Vengeance will easily be better for longer fights/longer trash. The trash in Ulduar is tough enough that the Vengeance stacks will be up well before the mobs die. I'm assuming the trash in 3.2 is going to be the same way. Vengeance will still probably be better for PvE.

[Whoopzz]

I'm wondering if the proc from Sheath of Light and Sacred Shield can stack, or if Blizz will change Sheath? Would be a waste otherwise.

[Ronark]

I'm wondering if the proc from Sheath of Light and Sacred Shield can stack, or if Blizz will change Sheath? Would be a waste otherwise.

This is what I'm wondering. Is there such thing as a "Crit" HoT? Could a druid tree clarify this?

[Varon]

I'm wondering if the proc from Sheath of Light and Sacred Shield can stack, or if Blizz will change Sheath? Would be a waste otherwise.

Basically it are HoTs from two different Sources so they should stack ...
One from SacShield other for Sheath ... so I wouldn't see anything wh they souldn't stack

This is what I'm wondering. Is there such thing as a "Crit" HoT? Could a druid tree clarify this?

err well HoTs are unable to crit right now ... at least our druid HoTs ... I remebered something about renewal that may crit, buts I think that came from a talent (don't ask me) I'm just a druid/pala/shaman but priest is next to come ;P

[Handsylton]

I'm wondering if the proc from Sheath of Light and Sacred Shield can stack, or if Blizz will change Sheath? Would be a waste otherwise.

If they do stack, I could see a Sheath healer spec becoming viable for utility.

[Ronark]

Per GC:

Flash of Light now says "Heals a friendly target for X. If the target has the Sacred Shield effect, they heal an additional 100% over 12 sec."

So, in effect, a Ret using SS will get both the FoL heal, and 100% of whatevr that heal was, over 12 seconds.

So if we crit a FoL for, say, 3k healing, and have SS on, we would have two HoTs on us: on doing 1800/12 (150 HPS) and one doing 3000/12 (250 HPS).

[Handsylton]

Per GC:

Flash of Light now says "Heals a friendly target for X. If the target has the Sacred Shield effect, they heal an additional 100% over 12 sec."

So, in effect, a Ret using SS will get both the FoL heal, and 100% of whatevr that heal was, over 12 seconds.

So if we crit a FoL for, say, 3k healing, and have SS on, we would have two HoTs on us: on doing 1800/12 (150 HPS) and one doing 3000/12 (250 HPS).

Healed for 3000 instantly, with two rolling hots, one doing 1800/12 and another doing 3000/12, for a total of 7800 healed on a 3k crit FoL.

Edit: And I'm pretty sure that concurrent FoL crit HoT's will stack.

[Deathleech]

It seems like a good way to keep our mana up if we have to heal. One Flash of Light that crits will heal for almost as much as a non-crit Holy Light over several seconds. Add to it that we won't be taking recoil damage from our main PVE seal and paladins should have a significant easier time staying alive.

I do have to wonder though. Do we still keep the dmg absorption AND 50% crit increase when it triggers on top of the new HoT effect? I am guessing yes to the damage absorption but not so sure about the crit part.

[Whoopzz]

The HoT is a secondary effect of FoL, which you can only gain if SS is on your target. And btw, i'm getting 4k flash crits with 4470 AP (might only), so with the 6k AP that some Pallys see raid buffed seems reasonable to say we could get 5k+ flashes, which would net us the initial 5k and an additional 8k over 12 seconds.

At any rate, I believe they SHOULD stack, but you know how Blizz is about throwing Paladins a bone.

[Whoopzz]

It seems like a good way to keep our mana up if we have to heal. One Flash of Light that crits will heal for almost as much as a non-crit Holy Light over several seconds. Add to it that we won't be taking recoil damage from our main PVE seal and paladins should have a significant easier time staying alive.

I do have to wonder though. Do we still keep the dmg absorption AND 50% crit increase when it triggers on top of the new HoT effect? I am guessing yes to the damage absorption but not so sure about the crit part.

Sacred Shield isn't being changed, so it should retain all its current effects.