why no swords

[Deleted]

I tanked Utgarde keep as elemental shamy with 3 man, 19k health...took me 3 hours but still was something different for once 8).
If you ever try it and it works, mind letting me know or something, wanna try the real deal also.

[Hammond]

This seems much better than giving us swords seeing as now we might have more chance of axes dropping and us finally being able to have a decent dual weild instead of getting messed up over fast fist weapons cause we cant DW the slow ones as they are MH only

[Deleted]

Gief 2h shamies?

[CookieEater]

And who knows some shamy would try to tank with a def weap shield and socketed gear .
Laugh all you want but there are some off those players. (for heroics or so)

Isn't Teldrassil Protector a tanking axe?

[Augrelle]

I knew they was going to give rogues axes. Rogues have a higher population then shamans, and it fits more then DKs with fists.

[Wrathonia]

Imo, we needed swords. Not for enhance. I couldn't care less about enhance. But there are a TON of spell power swords that I would love to get my hands on. But as ele, I am stuck with mostly healing maces. They don't do much in the way of spell power daggers anymore and if they do, they usually have spirit. A good deal of spell power swords don't have spirit and they have much needed hit/crit/haste. Not mp/5 and not spirit.

[Saidear]

.....how would changing a sword to an axe affect anything :S? If anything it would only be worse for Orcs. Sword=Axe, just a different model, and the Warrior weapon specializations (Which we don't care about, since we are shaman....right?)

swords for shaman would be 'meh' at best if Enhancement. They're generally too fast to be any use. Restoration would be a little more enthusiastic but waste the +hit on them and miss the regen stats. The only people wanting them are really the elemental shamans. But Blizzard is balancing the stats on them with the only 2 classes that can use them (Mage/lock) in mind.

[DarkDragoonLord]

They said long ago why shaman would never use swords. It's merely a thematic reason. Shaman only use weapons that serve dual functionality, that of peace and war. Axes can harvest lumber, maces can build, daggers can carve meat, etc (forgot the fist reason, if I remember it was lame anyway)

swords are instruments of war, and that's it. Shaman refuse to use them out of principle. Rogues on the other hand, don't hold themselves to those kinds of restrictions.

I'm honestly suprised they didn't give DKs fist weapons, but I guess that would be giving them too much

[Omanley]

swords for shaman would be 'meh' at best if Enhancement. They're generally too fast to be any use. Restoration would be a little more enthusiastic but waste the +hit on them and miss the regen stats. The only people wanting them are really the elemental shamans. But Blizzard is balancing the stats on them with the only 2 classes that can use them (Mage/lock) in mind.

leaving fast swords and orcracial out of the equation, swords are just as good a weapon as axes/maces, better as fists because not main/offhand only.

turning tide from kelthuzad has haste/crit/spellpower and would be just as good for resto

and looking as warlocks/mages get a use out of spirit, i cant see why swords, which can only be used by those two ( leaving out holypal because those can use healmace instead ) are itemized without spirit while daggers, which can be used by shaman, are itemized with it.

[Altheus]

I think most of the reason that Blizzard gave rogues axes and didn't give shamans swords, was a lore issue, not a gameplay issue. In todays "Latest News" section, on of the blue posts was...
"We took an informal vote and everyone here thought shamans with swords went against a lot of the traditions of the class in the lore, and DKs with fists was kind of weird too. Rogues seemed like the class that would pretty much pick up any weapon in a fight -- they use a broken bottle in at least one notorious case."

As far as gameplay goes, I don't think shamans getting swords would be that big an upgrade for us. We have good options already for every spec. Just my 2 cents.

[Saidear]

leaving fast swords and orcracial out of the equation, swords are just as good a weapon as axes/maces, better as fists because not main/offhand only.

You can't just leave them out of the equation, those are precisely why swords are 'meh' for Enhancement.

turning tide from kelthuzad has haste/crit/spellpower and would be just as good for resto

Not saying there aren't good caster swords that resto would want, just noting that a good portion of them are itemized for offensive casters and lack regen while having wasted hit.

and looking as warlocks/mages get a use out of spirit, i cant see why swords, which can only be used by those two ( leaving out holypal because those can use healmace instead ) are itemized without spirit while daggers, which can be used by shaman, are itemized with it.

Shamans aren't the only ones who use daggers, what about shadow priests and boomkins? And afaik, while warlocks and mages do benefit from spirit, they gain less than priests and druids do from it.


This change was a fix to make enhancement not so limited in upgrades and that's how it was announced initially. Seeing as how they've repeatedly said that resto and ele were pretty much where they wanted them, opening up gear upgrades for them would have made re-balancing them more difficult.

[Sarevokcz]

You can't just leave them out of the equation, those are precisely why swords are 'meh' for Enhancement.

and you really believe there wont be more fast axes then slow ones IN ADDITION of plethora of fast swords? really? how long have you been playing this game and were watching what they did with enhashaman itemization?

also, they wouldnt just STOP making slow swords, would they? no, because rogues still wants them slow in some cases, too.

Not saying there aren't good caster swords that resto would want, just nothing that a good portion of them are itemized for offensive casters and lack regen while having wasted hit.

and a few of them is with spirit, too, and neither of them have mp5, regardless, it would provide MORE choices for shaman casters, even tho there isnt really one single sword in ulduar itemized towards holy pally/resto shaman anyway, alteast restoshaman have use of mp5

Shamans aren't the only ones who use daggers, what about shadow priests and boomkins? And afaik, while warlocks and mages do benefit from spirit, they gain less than priests and druids do from it.

okay, lets summarize this:

shadow priests and boomkins can use daggers with spirit as well as without spirit, also nonmp5 hammers and ALSO all staffs, since they have spirit always, and they always gain SOME benefit out of spirit.

mages and locks can use both spirit and nonspirit daggers, spirit and nonspirit swords AND staffs, again, with atleast some benefit from spirit

eleshaman can use nonspirit daggers (one in uld) and nonmp5 hammers (one in uld), all other weapons have stats COMPLETELY useless for them (mp5/spirit), yet it would be unfair for them to have few more avaiable options? because they already have like third of actually itemized weapons for them of other caster specs? seriously? because eleshaman have so much (2) itemized options for them and BiS is weapon, which has spirit, which means wasted stat for us AND will most likely be prioritized for those, who have something out of spirit?

and tbh, i feel for holy pallys, too, there is again, one single nonmp5 hammer in uld (not counting legendary) and ZERO swords for them beyon turning tide, maybe they will find mp5 actually usefull in 3.2 patch, dunno yet, but right now, they have even less valid options than eleshaman, which leads be to think, why arent there any SP/crit/haste 1h axes, designed specifically for those 2 casters who dont benefit from spirit or mp5 at all, since there are hit swords, usable only by 2 classes or spirit swords, with same issue

This change was a fix to make enhancement not so limited in upgrades and that's how it was announced initially. Seeing as how they've repeatedly said that resto and ele were pretty much where they wanted them, opening up gear upgrades for them would have made re-balancing them more difficult.

thats BS and you know it, giving us more options wont make us overpowered, unless you think, that eleshaman with "soulscribe/aesuga" itemized weapon will be overpowered. soulscribe/aesuga are pretty good and very close to starshard, but the thing is, those are the ONLY two itemized weapons towards eleshaman, you can have all the spirit/mp5 hammers/daggers/staves and even dont give us swords, if we will have more "aesugas" across the itemization, it would allow both eleshaman and paladin to have more choices, which they are serioulsy lacking right now.

also, if giving more options = overpowered, how will it feel, since rogues WILL have more options?

[Azyoulike]

and tbh, i feel for holy pallys, too, there is again, one single nonmp5 hammer in uld (not counting legendary) and ZERO swords for them beyon turning tide, maybe they will find mp5 actually usefull in 3.2 patch, dunno yet, but right now, they have even less valid options than eleshaman, which leads be to think, why arent there any SP/crit/haste 1h axes, designed specifically for those 2 casters who dont benefit from spirit or mp5 at all, since there are hit swords, usable only by 2 classes or spirit swords, with same issue

Holy pallies aren't meant to be gearing for non-mp5, they're supposed to be taking it like resto-shaman, and presumably after the 3.2 nerfs they will have to. The problem of weapons for elem & resto shaman is real though, I suspect it will get solved in some fashion in 3.3 - I rather fear we'll be getting some way of using spirit.

[Oneleg]

This is a long term rather than short term solution I believe. That is, this isn't to make previous drops more attractive but a future direction.

Rogues don't need axes. They have plenty of weapon options. This is a Shaman 'buff' in future content, because it means that Rogues can feasibly desire Axes. More precisely, you'll notice that they merged their Axe spec into Sword spec and there are plenty of fast swords out there; this means that it's likely we'll see a lot of slow axes out there in place of slow swords in the future, as it'd be feasible to have Slow Axe MH/Fast Sword OH for a rogue while still allowing Shamans to go after 2x Slow Axe.

If you ask why they didn't just make Shamans use swords...I'd guess thematic reasons. I know people can insult this all they want, but I can understand not wanting to bring swords into what is essentially a more naturalistic class. And before you answer "rogues are stealthy and axes aren't," I'd say that comment hardly applies to Combat Rogues (who are the ones that will be using axes).

you dont get it do you, now we have to roll against Rogues and DK's for the Axes that you say they plan on puttin in the game....

[Elementium]

What's this crap about axes not being stealthy? many native american tribes we're known to be stealthy warriors and guess what they used.. it's so stupid that Rogues are actually crying about having more options.

Plus I assume part of being a Rogue would be to have exceptional skill with most one-handed weapons.

[Omanley]

You can't just leave them out of the equation, those are precisely why swords are 'meh' for Enhancement.

fast maces/axes/fists are just as useless for us as fast swords. and there are in fact a bunch of fast maces/fists in ulduar. i left them out of the equation because it´s the slow swords who count

Not saying there aren't good caster swords that resto would want, just noting that a good portion of them are itemized for offensive casters and lack regen while having wasted hit.

the thing is: elemental shaman dont want any mana-reg ( which all the maces have ) nor spirit ( which all the staves/daggers have ), caster fists are non existant in ulduar loot-tables, so the only really good designed caster-weapons for elemental are swords.

Shamans aren't the only ones who use daggers, what about shadow priests and boomkins? And afaik, while warlocks and mages do benefit from spirit, they gain less than priests and druids do from it.

warlocks gain with fel armor 30% of their spirit as spellpower => 1 spirit => 0.3 spellpower
boomkins => imp. moonkin form => 30% of spirit as spellpower => 1 spirit => 0.3 spellpower
resto-druid => imp. tree of life => 15% of spirit as spellpower => 1 spirit => 0.15 spellpower
shadowpriest, twisted faith talent => 10% of spirit as spellpower => 1 spirit => 0.1 spellpower
holypriest, spiritual guidance => 25% of spirit as spellpower => 2 spirit => 0.25 spellpower
mages => they dont get extra damage out of it, but with arcane meditation ( 50% mana reg while casting ) they get awesome mana returns ( i understand why they want other stats instead though )
elemental shaman => nothing

so you would have to itemize more like:
daggers for mage/elemental/holy-pal,
staves for holypriest/warlock/boomkin and
maces for shadowpriest/restodruid

[tacklebox]

mages got extra crit with spirit in 3.1 changes to molten armor.

[tears]

axes for enh shamans, its ok, but totally wasted for my (orc) racial, i barely can keep exp around 26-27 and this is with 0 gems for it pfft.

we dont need swords, maces ftw!