Trying to explain - some math about 3.2

[LinkMonk]

The only judgement that can currently proc its own seal is JoC.

[Ronark]

I'm not convinced that our burst is dead, yet.

CS is no longer the freight train loaded with piping hot gravy that it used to be, but think for just a moment that 110%(mitigated) + 43%(unmitigated) was what we were seeing.

Now it's 75%(Mitigated) + 36%(umitigated) but in 2/3 the cooldown.

Landing two CS during a HoJ stun yields typically more damage than one did as of live. Plus we get exorcism back, even if we have to proc it, it's still an extra burst button that we don't have currently.

I think we'll be in a very similar state of high burst, no tools, but much more reliant on that 6 second stun to deliver the whole load than we used to be. That's a bit unfortunate, as our PvP life already revolves around a 40 second cooldown, but I think it's manageable enough to say we'll be better represented than BM hunters.

Over a one minute span, you gain 1/4 and extra CS damage. Now divine 1/4 by 15, and we get 0.01666 more damage from 2 CS strikes with a 4 second CD than one CS strike with a 6 second cooldown.

The only benefit here (in terms of burst when you HoJ) is that you gain another Seal proc than before.

[Handsylton]

This is an analysis of our dps when 3.2 drops looking at a self buffed paladin.

6k AP, 1.8k SP, MW = 2000 static, 3.6 sec swing timer.

This does not include 2x criticals or haste. MW = 2000*.33 = 660 extra holy damage.

Seal of Corruption –
[.15AP+.088SP+1]*5
[(6000*.15)+(1800*.088)+1]*5
[(900)+(158.4)+1]*5
1059.4*5
(5297*1.03*1.03*1.03*1.15)+660 =
7316.4/15 sec = 487.76 DPS.

Judgement of Corruption –
[.14AP+.22SP]*1.5
[(6000*.14)+(1800*.22)]*1.5
[(840)+(396)]*1.5
1236*1.5
(1854*1.03*1.03*1.03*1.15) =
2562.78/8 sec = 320.34 DPS.

Crusader Strike –
[.75MW]
[.75*2000]
(1500*1.03*1.03*1.03*1.10*1.15*1.06)+660 =
2857.85/4 sec = 714.46 DPS.

Divine Storm –
[1.10MW]
[1.10*2000]
(2200*1.03*1.03*1.03*1.10*1.06)+660 =
3436.06/10 sec = 346.30 DPS.

Exorcism –
[.15AP+.15SP]+1028
[(.15*6000)+(.15*1800)]+1028
[(900)+(270)]+1028
(2198*1.03*1.03*1.03*1.15) =
2762.08/15 = 184.13 DPS.

Consecration –
([.04AP+.04SP]+113)*8
([(.04*6000)+(.04*1800)]+113)*8
([(240)+(72)]+113)*8
(425)*8
(3400*1.03*1.03*1.03) =
3715.27/8 = 464.40 DPS.

Auto-attack –
(2000*1.03*1.03*1.03*1.06)+660 =
2976.58/3.6 = 876.82 DPS.

SoV – 487.76
Judge – 320.34
CS – 714.46
DS – 346.30
Exo – 184.13
Cons – 464.40
Auto – 876.82

Total DPS = 3394.21

Remember, this is without ANY critical hits, as well as no haste, so less seal procs.

Purely assuming every attack critically hitting, that’s 2x DPS, or 6788.42. We can assume with a 50% crit pally that the damage will be the mean of the two extremes, or (6788.42+3394.21)/2 = 5091.31 DPS.

This DPS number is using the formulas and damage modifiers that only paladins bring to the table, so this 5091.31 single target DPS would substantially increase in a raid environment, as well as benefit from an actual haste figure, which I did not include. With 5 stacks built up, you should see a steady 5k dps with the new changes AT LEAST.

[Whoopzz]

Your napkin math is flawed. Seal procs are double damage, not all attacks.

[Handsylton]

Your napkin math is flawed. Seal procs are double damage, not all attacks.

Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy, with critical strikes dealing double damage.

Just going by what the patch notes say.

[Requital]

Except Ret is worthless in arena now. Between the changes to resilience, the nerf to Vindication, and the nerf to our pvp DPS, we're left even further from being competitive. And we STILL don't have the offensive utilities that everyone else has.

Our AoE DPS is a joke, the only thing thats going for us in that respect is that its always up (which only gives us an advantage if theres 4 or less mobs in the pack). Its too situational to claim that our AoE damage was great, because its not. Consecration needs a huge buff, or what i'd REALLY like to see is to make DS comparable to Howling Blast.

^^

When they took Vindication they hurt us bad it removed the one aspect we brought which was straight up pressure to the healer, When they removed the Spell Interrupt from HoJ they neutered the arena from Ret. Has anyone looked at the top 100 most popular 2v2 on SK lately? Previously we were represented @ 9.8% with Disc / Ret now we barely sit above Disc / Feral which could be considered stronger based on CC ability.

We are not in good shape in the Arena and nothing so far is going to help that with most of the 3.2 changes just hurting it. for now I'll wait till Blizzard finishes but I lost faith in them fixing the Paladin class shortly after I rolled one.

[Handsylton]

^^

When they took Vindication they hurt us bad it removed the one aspect we brought which was straight up pressure to the healer, When they removed the Spell Interrupt from HoJ they neutered the arena from Ret. Has anyone looked at the top 100 most popular 2v2 on SK lately? Previously we were represented @ 9.8% with Disc / Ret now we barely sit above Disc / Feral which could be considered stronger based on CC ability.

We are not in good shape in the Arena and nothing so far is going to help that with most of the 3.2 changes just hurting it. for now I'll wait till Blizzard finishes but I lost faith in them fixing the Paladin class shortly after I rolled one.

Yeah, and once again, once these changes hit PTR and they make sure the damage is right, then they'll start working on more utility. It's not like these are the final patch notes. People need to stop assuming that the first changes that they talk about are not the only/last ones they are going to make.

[Requital]

Yeah, and once again, once these changes hit PTR and they make sure the damage is right, then they'll start working on more utility. It's not like these are the final patch notes. People need to stop assuming that the first changes that they talk about are not the only/last ones they are going to make.

Pretty sure I said I would wait for the final changes, But honestly the only Paladins with hope Blizzard will fix them are new Paladins that don't understand how the system works

[Handsylton]

I dunno about you, but those patchnotes on what they are doing to paladins as a first batch of changes is pretty substantial. I'd say they are taking this "fixing the class" thing pretty seriously.

[arel00]

Handsylton, I don't get your modifiers.

You wrote "X*1.03*1.03*1.03*1.15". Now, granted that the 1.15 is Seals of the Pure, I'm taking the other factors are Crusade (1.03), Sanctified Retribution (1.03), and? Vengeance? Because it would seem that way, but Vengeance fully stacked it's 9%, not 3%. Hence 1.09, not 1.03.

It would seem the damage is higher than what you wrote.

[Handsylton]

Handsylton, I don't get your modifiers.

You wrote "X*1.03*1.03*1.03*1.15". Now, granted that the 1.15 is Seals of the Pure, I'm taking the other factors are Crusade (1.03), Sanctified Retribution (1.03), and? Vengeance? Because it would seem that way, but Vengeance fully stacked it's 9%, not 3%. Hence 1.09, not 1.03.

It would seem the damage is higher than what you wrote.

Ahhh yeah sorry about that. So one of those (1.03)'s would be 1.09. You can see the real value just by dividing the damage by 1.03, then multiplying it by 1.09. So, 5091.31/1.03 = 4943.02, then multiplied by the 1.09, so 4943.02*1.09 = 5387.89 DPS. So it is about 300 more dps than what I originally stated in my math. I would go change it in the original math right now, but I'm too lazy to go back through, so this lazy man's way is going to have to do. :P

Thanks for pointing that out.