Holy flash change

[Mechima]

then blizzard needs to make up their minds imo. either we take holy light spam as we have it or they need to buff FoL so we can keep the tank alive with that spell, as haste cap u got 1 sec CD on FoL but the holy light is at about 1,45 sec CD (cant remember exactly), so 5-7k´ish every second or 11-17k´ish every 1,45 second. thats a really big change.

[Lark]

The hope is that it works like Sheathe/RV, which stacks, but has a limit to the number of applications, eventually forcing off older applications for new ones. This means your HoT can't get too big and has an average cap. If it works like that FoL itself becomes much more appealing while tank healing, since it isn't working 'by itself' anymore. But no one knows.

[Ronark]

hm, what about playing retheal with sheath of light?
spamming fol with 2 hots?

you will probably crit a decent amount and sheath wont stack im afraid

The Hot that FoL applies is only after the initial cast. I posted this in another topic, but I'll repost what will happen here.

Per GC:

Flash of Light now says "Heals a friendly target for X. If the target has the Sacred Shield effect, they heal an additional 100% over 12 sec."

So, in effect, a Ret using SS will get both the FoL heal, and 100% of whatevr that heal was, over 12 seconds.

So if we crit a FoL for, say, 3k healing, and have SS on, we would have two HoTs on us: on doing 1800/12 (150 HPS) and one doing 3000/12 (250 HPS).

[Sanguissa]

Please dont talk about retri-paladins(arena rets) benefit here.

This is Holy Paladin thread.

About sheat of light, iam 100% sure that if it will be somekind stronger than holy-spec, blizzard will fix it. They can fix things good. Iam drunk like we fixed that thing about game beeing funny.

[Evilhealz]

Holy Paladins are 100% proactive healers. By spamming FoL, it wont matter if you send heals into the future, they wont be stout enough to keep the tank up in Ulduar 10 or 25. Now if blizzard fixed this little hot to where it only ticked 2 or 3 times (instead of 4) it would be a respectable upgrade to our arsenal because the ticks would be stronger, for example, Priests Glyph of Renew. Im not afraid to see what our mana regen is going to be like. They only nerfed our mana pool by about 1,000+ and we still have divine plea. Dont freak out people.

I just wish they'd upgrade this shitty little excuse for a HoT. Make it more POTENT. It would work out perfect in pvp since we are mainly a "stand still and cast" type of healer.

What do you guys think?

[TwistedPower]

10$ says it wont stack. Otherwise it would just be FoL spam till you start getting 10k healing ticks.

[Mechima]

10$ says it wont stack. Otherwise it would just be FoL spam till you start getting 10k healing ticks.

but how i see it, 10k ticks + FoL = 15k´ish, the ticks goes every 3 sec and the FoL every second.

atm i use HL at 1,45´ish CD with 11k none crit and 17k crit so thats 22k - 34k every 3 second.

so if blizzard wants to make the paladin to keep up the tank with FoL they need to make it stack, to come up at 10k hots is alot, even i feel that, but you would need to come at about 7-8k HoT + FoL in order to make it work imo.

note: this is only at one target, you wont be spamming hots on the whole raid, we just need something that says that: the tank got some cover with hots, go heal the raid a bit if you need to. also to have 2 - 3 paladins in the raid (25) is more wanted by this, 3 SS on 3 tanks to beter keep them up, more time for the raid, and thats what bliz wants aint it?

[Fizzlebeard]

Blizz said it would "work like Sheath of Light". We already know that it is applied on hits (not FoL crits like Sheath), so this is probably mentioning the "rolling" part of the Sheath HoT; when you refresh the Sheath HoT it resets the timer and adds all undone ticks to the new HoT. I imagine that the SS/FoL HoT will work in the same way, ticking every 3 seconds.

I first thought you would just refresh the HoT every 12 seconds (and SS and Beacon) on the tank and raidheal, but this makes it far more interesting.

When there are pauzes in the (raid)damage being thrown around, you can work up your HoT "stacks" by spamming FoL. Just 3 seconds of (1.0 second/3.7k/31% crit) flashing will give you a 1.4k HPS HoT. Every flash will add about 350 HPS to the HoT in this example. But remember that the HoT won't tick if you refresh it all the time. So the HoT won't help as long as your flashing, just when you start raidhealing again. You should even be able to build it up the HPS towards infinity, if you never let it tick.

An other option, maybe during raidhealing, is letting a flash hit just after every tick. This way you build up a stronger HoT without stopping the ticks. It will take about 3 ticks (9 seconds) to build up a 1k HPS HoT this way. The mathematical maximum is about 1.4k HPS, which is accomplished after about 30 seconds. This is probably not viable in a practical sense (timing those FoLs should be near impossible, it having a casttime), but it's nice to keep in the back of your head. On the other hand, if you are (almost) GCD hastecapped, it just means 2x FoL not on the tank and the third back on the tank.

This all under the assumption it "rolls" like Sheath.

EDIT; Fixed some errors in the Flash spam math example.

[EzriEU]

you will probably crit a decent amount and sheath wont stack im afraid

1) Sheath of Light stacks (or rather "rolls" to be precise).

2) The spell is called Flash of Light - not "Holy Flash".

3) I'm wondering how XS was able to contribute something meaningful here. The overall thread is pointless to boot.

[Raiss]

I normally raid with 4 paladins, one holy (me), one prot and two rets. In a ordinary fight, all of us sacred shield the tank. But now with this change, I was wandering: if a target has a sacred shield that isn't mine, it will proc a hot from mine flash of light?

Eg:

Prot paladin (mt) shields him self.
I will shield the Off tank.
2 ret paladin shield someone (and they will use a macro with %t to let me know)

Can I have 4 hots going on at the same time, and the beaconed target will receive all heals?

[Mutin]

I normally raid with 4 paladins, one holy (me), one prot and two rets. In a ordinary fight, all of us sacred shield the tank. But now with this change, I was wandering: if a target has a sacred shield that isn't mine, it will proc a hot from mine flash of light?

Eg:

Prot paladin (mt) shields him self.
I will shield the Off tank.
2 ret paladin shield someone (and they will use a macro with %t to let me know)

Can I have 4 hots going on at the same time, and the beaconed target will receive all heals?

Sacred Shield doesnt stack, so 3 of u is wasting ur mana.

[Raiss]

Sacred Shield doesnt stack, so 3 of u is wasting ur mana.

Just tested: two sacred shield on my ret paladin friend. He had both sacred shield absortion buff together, pretty sure it does stack. Why should it not stack?

I just would like to know which shield is consumed first, because if I were able to have the last one, I would have +50% crit full time on some bosses.

[ph0en1xtk]

I can try to be cool and say i have a 30k mana pool and never go below 60% in Ulduar Hard Modes but that second part would be a lie. Paladins who do their jobs proactivly and not reactively should be using that 30k mana pool...its not there for show. And if anyone thinks that being proactive means just spamming Holy Light, then you all may want to re-think your so called "healing skills."

this is actually true in my case. every hard mode up to freya and mimiron, i have a 28k mana pool, specced 51/20/0 usually only me or me and a disc priest assigned to tanks, and i end the fight with over 50% mana, tank doesnt die.

[Evilhealz]

I normally raid with 4 paladins, one holy (me), one prot and two rets. In a ordinary fight, all of us sacred shield the tank. But now with this change, I was wandering: if a target has a sacred shield that isn't mine, it will proc a hot from mine flash of light?

Eg:

Prot paladin (mt) shields him self.
I will shield the Off tank.
2 ret paladin shield someone (and they will use a macro with %t to let me know)

Can I have 4 hots going on at the same time, and the beaconed target will receive all heals?

your getting waaayy too technical. Im not sure where youve been for the past 8 or 9 months but BoL only heals the BoL target for DIRECT heals you do to the surrounding players. HL glyph splash for example doesnt heal the Becaond target.

Blizz hasnt anounced yet if the HoT stacks which means they may be too unsure whether to officially announce whether it does stack or it does not. If it does ROLL like Sheath but has a maximum of maybe 3-5 (because we can pop 10 FoL in around 10-11 seconds) FoL hots. I dont know, its way too early to start calculating but i can tell you right now, as this single HoT stands, its TERRIBLE. LET IT ROLL BLIZZARD!!! PLX

[PalliesThrowStuff]

Blizz said it would "work like Sheath of Light". We already know that it is applied on hits (not FoL crits like Sheath), so this is probably mentioning the "rolling" part of the Sheath HoT; when you refresh the Sheath HoT it resets the timer and adds all undone ticks to the new HoT. I imagine that the SS/FoL HoT will work in the same way, ticking every 3 seconds.

I first thought you would just refresh the HoT every 12 seconds (and SS and Beacon) on the tank and raidheal, but this makes it far more interesting.

When there are pauzes in the (raid)damage being thrown around, you can work up your HoT "stacks" by spamming FoL. Just 3 seconds of (1.0 second/3.7k/31% crit) flashing will give you a 1.4k HPS HoT. Every flash will add about 350 HPS to the HoT in this example. But remember that the HoT won't tick if you refresh it all the time. So the HoT won't help as long as your flashing, just when you start raidhealing again. You should even be able to build it up the HPS towards infinity, if you never let it tick.

An other option, maybe during raidhealing, is letting a flash hit just after every tick. This way you build up a stronger HoT without stopping the ticks. It will take about 3 ticks (9 seconds) to build up a 1k HPS HoT this way. The mathematical maximum is about 1.4k HPS, which is accomplished after about 30 seconds. This is probably not viable in a practical sense (timing those FoLs should be near impossible, it having a casttime), but it's nice to keep in the back of your head. On the other hand, if you are (almost) GCD hastecapped, it just means 2x FoL not on the tank and the third back on the tank.

This all under the assumption it "rolls" like Sheath.

EDIT; Fixed some errors in the Flash spam math example.

It would be ESPECIALLY neat, if it didn't tick for the first 3 seconds anyway, and only ticked once every 3 seconds after that.

Kind of a neat idea, stack up a buff on the tank that does no healing immediately, but then winds down the less you use it, but every time you use it, it does very little instant healing.

It also makes Shock and Infusion more valuable, as the value of FoL increases, those two become stronger in conjunction.

[Theholypally]

Unfortunatly, with the current level of damage going out in 25 man ulduar, and especially hard mode Ulduar, FoL or any dinky HoT they put on it wont save a tank at all (or the raid for that matter, think Tantrum + light bomb combos or frozen blows). It doesnt matter what fight it is, If they want paladins to be more raid effective healing they are not only going to have to add that kind of HoT, but increase the base healing % of FoL to compensate for them not wanting us to "spam holy light the entire fight".

It just wont be enough. And since a good paladin healer is always casting, or should be 90% of the time during the majority of the fights, its going to end up hurting more then helping switching to spamming FoL. FoL simply does not and will not cut it for our primary role in the raid: Tank Healing and wont cut it for raid healing in comparison to druids or priests or shamans (especially with the shaman buffs)

I'd be the first to jump up and say "yes!" to some kind of variety for the class, but not like this. A skilled paladin healer knows damn well that our job doesnt revolve around spamming Holy Light, so its frustrating to see them take the word of mediocre, lazy healers. Since i know how to use beacon of light (properly i might add) id be happy if they scrapped that change and discarded the illumination nerf. Most of the raiding paladins know how to actually play, doesnt mean they should pay for the people who get carried through the instance. Adding a FoL HoT wont be much of a buff, even if it stacked how many holy paladins does your team take to a raid? 2 at the most, 1 80% of the time, i can almost guarantee that.

And because paladins are normally alone in a 25 man raid for healing, they should consider that when they start talking about HoTs for us and actually make them worth the application, not degrade our main stats.

Think about it, the FoL heal over time isnt going to do jack squat in 25 man ulduar much less Icecrown Citadel in the future, but the Illumination and Divine Intellect nerf will hurt us forever.