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  1. #121

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibba
    as some one stated, this is the play style of one individual me, and i was sharing it with the priest community encouraging others to try it, CoH was used by all the priests in the world - i dont think nerf will come coz only shibba uses this tactic.
    also some say that i might change my perspective once i get into more harder bosses and will have to adjust accordingly.

    And if the so spoken nerf will come then hey it seems that only me should be worried about it coz no one else does it hehe will be funny to see a blue post with "thank shibba for the nerf"
    you're funny

  2. #122

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Quote Originally Posted by llDemonll
    you're stupid to think ur good.

    preventing dmg that may never come? each time you cash a shield doesnt mean you heal for 8000 (or whatever your shield absorbs) it means you put a shield on thme. unless they take dmg, ur shield is pointless and the biggest waste of mana ever.

    l2p
    Wow, listen to this guy... I'm good, L2p, your stupid. Spoken like a true CHAMPION, someone who really knows their shit. Do us all a favor slick, go back the to pool of semen and emerge as a new creature, like maybe something that has a brain or a heart.

    hey i have an idea... I'm going to troll the forums and attack the OP so that when i go to bed tonight i may feel better about myself....oh....damn, wait..... "demon" beat me to it.

    congratulations on being naive, ignorant, and 12. and GL getting somewhere in life by mindlessly, thoughtlessly, and non-chalantly flaming away at the community. ...no offense.

    edit: on a side note..... your heals a waste of mana if the target isnt taking dmg....l2p

  3. #123

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Disc is a floater healer without a clear defined role. they are best mitigating raid dmg as well as keeping shields on tank and using pennance for spikes and keeping pom bouncing. if there is severe raid dmg pop divine hymm. that it disc is both a reactive and proactive healer if your only doing one or the other you are underperforming no matter what your logs say. they main role of disc is preventing death and then allowing other healers to top off. and yes on a fight like kolg you can put up huge numbers but other than sheilds on the tank and grips your just letting the other heals be lazy as there is no immediate worry of death after shockwave unless they are dumb and stand in the eye beam. the greatness of disc is more found in mimi p2 or hodir frozen blows where you shield people that are close to dying so druid hots can kick in or the holy preist can top them off. and i still feel we are best able to deal with spike dmg on tanks pw:s pennance pom heals or mitigates around 25k dmg in around 3 secs.

  4. #124

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    My two copper's worth:

    Heal meters mean shit all. Congrats at topping an estimated absorption check, that's valued at 100%, in comparison to other peoples effective heals. Congrats at using a meter to attempt to stroke your ego a little more.

    Seriously, get over yourself here.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  5. #125

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    My two copper's worth:

    Heal meters mean shit all. Congrats at topping an estimated absorption check, that's valued at 100%, in comparison to other peoples effective heals. Congrats at using a meter to attempt to stroke your ego a little more.

    Seriously, get over yourself here.
    I understand everyones desire to debunk this guy...but really? Your reasoning is ABSURD. FYI sweetheart, no dmg meter calculates absorption....UNLESS damage was actually absorbed and logged. which means 2 things.

    1. dmg was taken, and absorbed. which is just as effective as a heal.

    2. another would be flamer/troll/idiot bites the dust due to retardation and over egotism.

    before you come to this forum to post and flame...get your stuff together, otherwise you look very dumb, like now.... no offense.

    EDIT: and to add insult to injury here..... its kind of better in a way, and stick with me here, in that if its a shield...IT CANT OVERHEAL. like castin say a 5k heal that crits for 8 on someone who has taken 2k dmg...doesnt make much sense right? but this guys the 'tard, give me a break.

    SOMEONE PLEASE POST SOME ACTUAL LOGIC HERE!!!! counter points, true numbers, meaningful criticism. not this garbage! pathetic.

  6. #126

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avey
    EDIT: and to add insult to injury here..... its kind of better in a way, and stick with me here, in that if its a shield...IT CANT OVERHEAL. like castin say a 5k heal that crits for 8 on someone who has taken 2k dmg...doesnt make much sense right? but this guys the 'tard, give me a break.

    SOMEONE PLEASE POST SOME ACTUAL LOGIC HERE!!!! counter points, true numbers, meaningful criticism. not this garbage! pathetic.
    I've posted plenty of non-flame logical posts. Shields can "under-absorb" which is the same as an "over-heal." Casting a 8k shield on someone who takes 5k damage is the same as casting an 8k heal on someone who was only down 5k health.

  7. #127

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    My two copper's worth:

    Heal meters mean shit all. Congrats at topping an estimated absorption check, that's valued at 100%, in comparison to other peoples effective heals. Congrats at using a meter to attempt to stroke your ego a little more.

    Seriously, get over yourself here.

    hope you learn to read better on other posts... it wasnt based on meters but on the logs. and its not ESTIMADED its EXACT...

    feel sorry i have to explain the basics here...
    Paranoid Tank: "Always be prepared for something to eat the healer..."

  8. #128

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigjenk
    Disc is a floater healer without a clear defined role. they are best mitigating raid dmg as well as keeping shields on tank and using pennance for spikes and keeping pom bouncing. if there is severe raid dmg pop divine hymm. that it disc is both a reactive and proactive healer if your only doing one or the other you are underperforming no matter what your logs say. they main role of disc is preventing death and then allowing other healers to top off. and yes on a fight like kolg you can put up huge numbers but other than sheilds on the tank and grips your just letting the other heals be lazy as there is no immediate worry of death after shockwave unless they are dumb and stand in the eye beam. the greatness of disc is more found in mimi p2 or hodir frozen blows where you shield people that are close to dying so druid hots can kick in or the holy preist can top them off. and i still feel we are best able to deal with spike dmg on tanks pw:s pennance pom heals or mitigates around 25k dmg in around 3 secs.
    I agree as MT healers we are amazing, was hoping to show that on a raid healer role we do as good as we do with tanks.

    unfortunatly some people find it unaceptable that im using 70% shields and 30% other spells... :/
    Paranoid Tank: "Always be prepared for something to eat the healer..."

  9. #129

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibba
    I agree as MT healers we are amazing, was hoping to show that on a raid healer role we do as good as we do with tanks.

    unfortunatly some people find it unaceptable that im using 70% shields and 30% other spells... :/
    Discipline priest can heal both MT and raid, depending on the encounter ofc.

    You can easly have a 100% uptime of sheild, infact cast only sheilds - it would easly get you threw all the easy modes in ulduar. It will help other healers (especially if you have high spellpower since your shield will then absord more), it will give them more time to lannd their heal. Will it fit to hard modes? no it won't, will you top the meter's of worloflogs, probably. If you had a guild that all had extremely good healers would you be considered a good healer? no you won't.

    I can compare shield spaming on raid to a paladin not using beacon of light and using only FLash Of light, a Druid casting only rejub and not using Wildgrowth, nourish, regrowth, swiftment, lifebloom etc, To a resto shaman not casting Earth shield, a holy priest casting Flash heal x 3 and poh rotationaly. When it comes to most of the hard modes a combination of spells is what's required, every or most GcD are important.

    On freya with 3 we use a discipline for raid healing, he has roughly a 38% useage of his sheild - even less then the fusion priest. She penances poh's and proms alot more then him. Also has afew renew casted. She really does use the sheild on someone that's in danger (ground tremor + chain lightening/lightening bolt, Nature fury, Roots, healers and low hp targets that explosive lashers tend to gimp fast). I am not so sure she would've earned that spot if all she did was spam around sheilds. She uses indead alot and mainly sheilds but also finds times where the GcD should go for a prom or a penance (even a renew - though had 15 casted, the renew isn't that strong as discipline), a PS on the tank, a poh on the correct time. This ofc comes with experiance.

    Yet if you go freya with no adds at all, there's no ground tremor (i actually never did it without atleast 1 elder alive), therefore spaming the whole raid with sheild might be not so amazing. The difference between hard modes and normal modes are the spells that you use, when i see a druid casting only rejub i feel he's replaceable, just like a discipline spaming only sheilds. This ofc refers only to hard modes. On normal modes i tend to swap in some holy fire's and smites to make it interesting. In that case probably what ever you do will be good enough. Though to my veiw, I never want to be good enough.

  10. #130

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibba


    thanks, i never siad what i do is the best way and that im the best, just shared on what im doing hopingly to improve with replies like this.
    I am aware of the fact that my Penance/PoM/PI uptime aint great and im doing my best to remind my self of using them with powerauras and such... its just some times i get carried away with the shield spam.
    I agree i have much to improve on and doing less shields for other important stuff is the way to do it.
    As you said i wanted to destroy the illusion that disc can do only MT heal and nothing more.
    Some argue that resto druid is a a waste for MT pupposes, I argue that disc priest is a waste for MT job, yet both classes can do it perfectly.
    You need to look at the strengths and weaknesses however and the spells in priests arsenal and what you're doing. I'm not saying disc priest can't "raid" heal like you do, but you're neglecting major strengths of your spec when nearly all you're doing is raid.
    Prayer of mending is the best healing spell in the game, smart jumps, super efficient, every other class wishes they had one like it; Penance, one of the best 51point spells in game.
    Chain heal, CoH and Wild growth are all smart AoE heals by other classes, their efficiency comes in that smartness, if you shield 4/6 people that are going to take 3k damage you just spent 4 global cooldowns and made 1 holy priest or 1 druid's 1 global cooldown spell less efficient.
    There's times with predicted high incoming damage when it's worth putting out a lot of shields, it's definitely not all the time for small amounts at the expense of your great tank mitigation and healing.

    You may say a druid is a "raid healer" primarily but if you look at most druids they wont be "spam" healing tanks but they'll have full hot lists on tanks while doing their raid healing.
    Same applies to disc, you can get good numbers overlaping into other healers strengths, no one is really denying that, just don't neglect the main non overlapping strengths in your own spec(I doubt most raid with multiple disc priests).

  11. #131

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Haven't read this entire thread, just wanted to make a point.

    I love the idea of Disc priests preventing a ton of damage. Often times in a 25 man raid I see so many heals getting sniped, and so many heals going to overheal, what's so bad about taking one of those overheals away, and instead using that healer to prevent the damage in the first place. Seems like a great tool to me in a situation with so many healers.

  12. #132

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibba
    I agree as MT healers we are amazing, was hoping to show that on a raid healer role we do as good as we do with tanks.

    unfortunatly some people find it unaceptable that im using 70% shields and 30% other spells... :/
    Disc Priests who usually assigned as "Tank Healers" dont simply tank heal. Sure their primary focus are the tanks but they also do what you have been doing, though just not as excessive. Often they do toss out a lot of shields, perhaps on the key players such as OT, or players in danger. In other words those tank healing disc priests only toss out the shields if they know the shield will most likely, if not definitely, be used up completely.

    I dont have any numbers or data to back up what I say, but it is accepted that disc in raids is not specifically assigned as a raid healer, however we all know that disc priests do help out in raid heals occasionally. When the tank is in good condition, toss out renews, as well as shields here and there (not excessively) to gain Borrowed Time, followed by Prayer of Healing is a nice way to help out on raid heals at times. But in the end tanks should be your priority because when it comes to a spike damage, your heals are going to land on the tank first. If a disc priest only focuses on the tank and nobody else then that disc priest is not worth the raid spot, even though we are guaranteed the survival of the tank.

    I can see why some people find it unacceptable with the 70% shield absorption. You've placed a lot of emphasis on your original post regarding the usage of the shield. Other people, including myself have already gained the first impression you've made regarding the shield spamming. It's quite obvious that 70% shield absorption means that you are using shields as your primary raid healing method. And I personally think that's great, in fact it's awesome, preventing damage instead of taking it then healing up is a lot safer. When done properly it can even be better than the conventional raid healing methods. However, it takes too much effort. You require at least 10 global cooldowns to achieve something that a holy priest can do in 3. In other words, you take at leat 10 seconds to shield 10 people, whereas a holy priest spend 3 seconds to cast a PoH + CoH combo. The overall effect is the same. Perhaps those 7 extra GCDs can be better spent elsewhere?

    Before you say that other healers that was in your group are bad, i'd like to check the overheal meter. I didnt find it in your logs.

  13. #133

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    This kind of raidhealing isn't about doing your best, it's about topping meters. Shielding everyone before they get hit is a good strategy and should be used by disc priests, but not for 70% of the time. 25% is normal, 30% is acceptable too.

    If you wanted to top meters, you should have used PoH more often. Especially PoH'ing with PI and Borrowed Time is showing off on the healing meters muahahaha (proccing DA too and/or glyphing for it helps). Also PoM helps a lot, though it seems counter-effective because your shielded targets shouldn't get damage. But they will and PoM will jump thank God.

    For every fight a disc priest's healing strategy is different. When you go kill General Vezax, then normal healing should suffice to top the healing+absorb meters easily. Your shields and DA procs will make sure you have more than enough absorbs to top the meters. Aside from topping the meters, this is a correct healing strategy for a disc priest on this fight.

    About overhealing with PW:Shield, you're with a few raidhealers to heal raidmembers. If a priest casts Flash Heal on someone, but someone else was slightly quicker with a heal that topped the raidmember up, that makes the Flash Heal an overheal. With PW:S, if it doesn't get used, it can easily be compared with the previous example. The difference is that PW:Shield lasts for 30 seconds on a target and nourish is "on cast" thus PW:Shield is superior.

    I just know you had loads of fun that run where you just shielded everyone .

  14. #134

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Your recount depends on skill of other healers more than on zour skill, for example:

    Me(holy paladin) and my friend(resto shaman) were in one guild. Meters were always like me 1, he somewhere in loewr middle or sometimes the worst healing done.

    Now, hes in new guild which have same porgress as our former had(12/14). Hes 1st or 2nd in meters. We watched this and loled, because propably worst healer can easy became best healer.

  15. #135

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Not really true. The shield prevents the healing from being done by other healers by simply absorbing the damage. It's not a question of "skill" or "who has better reflexes". If the raiders aren't getting hit, then there is nothing to heal. It's close to impossible to beat someone that is "healing" 7-8k hp raid wide every single GCD. It shows nothing about the other healers tbh. Ofcourse by raid wide I mean whoever is getting hit, but in Ulduar, it is hard to find a fight without raid members getting hit every 10 seconds or so, so it's a good approximation.
    "Thor: Qvuiet, I'm trying to sneak up on them!"

  16. #136

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    its not advised to just shieldspam, since the talent will get nerfed, it already got nerfed. And if people start healing like that, it will get nerfed more.

    Plain simple u dont need to use that playstyle to be a great discpriest. Im a haste disc and just throwing out heals and shields at same time, get u very high on the healmeter. In a fight like mimiron, im tophealer behind uberdruid not even counting absorbs just pure healing.

    Offcourse unlike u, i stack spellpower now to improve my heals, since that lacks as discpriest.

    In the end for all discpriests, its best to learn to use all your healingspells to stay near the top then abusing one spell, if everyone starts your playstyle, u can be sure the talent will be removed since blizz doesnt like one buttong spells. then again just spamming shields randomly doesnt cut it, since sometimes u cant spam em fast enough.

    but im having great fun as disc, using almost all my heals.. only doesnt use poh since i think it sux its too slow, and when paired with decent healer every player will be topped off before it hits.

    When u speed up your heals with shields, u start to burst out alot of healing.

    your playstyle is like holypriest only using coh and we all know how that turned out in the end. play how u like but dont spread your playstyle on other people. every noob can spam shields,

  17. #137

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlybonne
    its not advised to just shieldspam, since the talent will get nerfed, it already got nerfed. And if people start healing like that, it will get nerfed more.
    That's like telling DKs not to use Scourge Strike, because it will get nerfed. Oh wait.. they already announced that it will get nerfed.. Stop pretending blizzard is dumb. They know damn right what is going on and which skills scale too good with the gear they will introduce to the game.

    That being said, shield spamming works very well on certain encounters and not so well on others.

  18. #138

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Quote Originally Posted by nikkita
    Discipline priest can heal both MT and raid, depending on the encounter ofc.

    You can easly have a 100% uptime of sheild, infact cast only sheilds - it would easly get you threw all the easy modes in ulduar. It will help other healers (especially if you have high spellpower since your shield will then absord more), it will give them more time to lannd their heal. Will it fit to hard modes? no it won't, will you top the meter's of worloflogs, probably. If you had a guild that all had extremely good healers would you be considered a good healer? no you won't.

    I can compare shield spaming on raid to a paladin not using beacon of light and using only FLash Of light, a Druid casting only rejub and not using Wildgrowth, nourish, regrowth, swiftment, lifebloom etc, To a resto shaman not casting Earth shield, a holy priest casting Flash heal x 3 and poh rotationaly. When it comes to most of the hard modes a combination of spells is what's required, every or most GcD are important.

    On freya with 3 we use a discipline for raid healing, he has roughly a 38% useage of his sheild - even less then the fusion priest. She penances poh's and proms alot more then him. Also has afew renew casted. She really does use the sheild on someone that's in danger (ground tremor + chain lightening/lightening bolt, Nature fury, Roots, healers and low hp targets that explosive lashers tend to gimp fast). I am not so sure she would've earned that spot if all she did was spam around sheilds. She uses indead alot and mainly sheilds but also finds times where the GcD should go for a prom or a penance (even a renew - though had 15 casted, the renew isn't that strong as discipline), a PS on the tank, a poh on the correct time. This ofc comes with experiance.

    Yet if you go freya with no adds at all, there's no ground tremor (i actually never did it without atleast 1 elder alive), therefore spaming the whole raid with sheild might be not so amazing. The difference between hard modes and normal modes are the spells that you use, when i see a druid casting only rejub i feel he's replaceable, just like a discipline spaming only sheilds. This ofc refers only to hard modes. On normal modes i tend to swap in some holy fire's and smites to make it interesting. In that case probably what ever you do will be good enough. Though to my veiw, I never want to be good enough.

    as i stated before my strategy was formed in my own certain enviroment, saying it wont work on harder bosses when i never met them yet isnt contributing because its only speculating.
    i never sayd hey from now on only spam shields no matter what... and im sorry that my intial post sugested it, yet in my current situation with my current set up on most of the boss fights spaming shields for roughly 70% of time seems to benefit the raid better then me being MT healer.

    I cannot vouch for the future encounters, if the situation changes drasticaly as we venture further into hard modes then by all means i will adjust acordingly and ofc change my play style.
    Untill that happens i will do what seems to do best for our raid, and bosses like ignis,XT,Aur,Fre,Hodir,kolo... still benefit alot from raid wide shielding as i almost never "waste" a bubble.
    Paranoid Tank: "Always be prepared for something to eat the healer..."

  19. #139

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Quote Originally Posted by axxey
    You need to look at the strengths and weaknesses however and the spells in priests arsenal and what you're doing. I'm not saying disc priest can't "raid" heal like you do, but you're neglecting major strengths of your spec when nearly all you're doing is raid.
    Prayer of mending is the best healing spell in the game, smart jumps, super efficient, every other class wishes they had one like it; Penance, one of the best 51point spells in game.
    Chain heal, CoH and Wild growth are all smart AoE heals by other classes, their efficiency comes in that smartness, if you shield 4/6 people that are going to take 3k damage you just spent 4 global cooldowns and made 1 holy priest or 1 druid's 1 global cooldown spell less efficient.
    There's times with predicted high incoming damage when it's worth putting out a lot of shields, it's definitely not all the time for small amounts at the expense of your great tank mitigation and healing.

    You may say a druid is a "raid healer" primarily but if you look at most druids they wont be "spam" healing tanks but they'll have full hot lists on tanks while doing their raid healing.
    Same applies to disc, you can get good numbers overlaping into other healers strengths, no one is really denying that, just don't neglect the main non overlapping strengths in your own spec(I doubt most raid with multiple disc priests).
    i have replied to a similar post earlier saying that i KNOW that i (forget rather than neglect) to use alot of other potentialy ussefull skills...
    and tbh im feeling crap when in the heat of battle i notcie my PoM addon falshin allrdy for long time notifying me that i have no PoM on any one, or that i see a flashing indicator of Power Infusion that i didnt gave to a holy priest or shammy during tantrum or frozen blows.

    but as i sayd before im here to listen and improve, and wether my "shield spam" will work on hard modes i do not know, but for now it does the job - now only not forget other skills
    Paranoid Tank: "Always be prepared for something to eat the healer..."

  20. #140

    Re: Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

    Quote Originally Posted by zsun
    Disc Priests who usually assigned as "Tank Healers" dont simply tank heal. Sure their primary focus are the tanks but they also do what you have been doing, though just not as excessive. Often they do toss out a lot of shields, perhaps on the key players such as OT, or players in danger. In other words those tank healing disc priests only toss out the shields if they know the shield will most likely, if not definitely, be used up completely.

    I dont have any numbers or data to back up what I say, but it is accepted that disc in raids is not specifically assigned as a raid healer, however we all know that disc priests do help out in raid heals occasionally. When the tank is in good condition, toss out renews, as well as shields here and there (not excessively) to gain Borrowed Time, followed by Prayer of Healing is a nice way to help out on raid heals at times. But in the end tanks should be your priority because when it comes to a spike damage, your heals are going to land on the tank first. If a disc priest only focuses on the tank and nobody else then that disc priest is not worth the raid spot, even though we are guaranteed the survival of the tank.

    I can see why some people find it unacceptable with the 70% shield absorption. You've placed a lot of emphasis on your original post regarding the usage of the shield. Other people, including myself have already gained the first impression you've made regarding the shield spamming. It's quite obvious that 70% shield absorption means that you are using shields as your primary raid healing method. And I personally think that's great, in fact it's awesome, preventing damage instead of taking it then healing up is a lot safer. When done properly it can even be better than the conventional raid healing methods. However, it takes too much effort. You require at least 10 global cooldowns to achieve something that a holy priest can do in 3. In other words, you take at leat 10 seconds to shield 10 people, whereas a holy priest spend 3 seconds to cast a PoH + CoH combo. The overall effect is the same. Perhaps those 7 extra GCDs can be better spent elsewhere?

    Before you say that other healers that was in your group are bad, i'd like to check the overheal meter. I didnt find it in your logs.
    Agreed, thing is i formed this strategy when i wanted to raid heal as disc spec to equal and maybe outperform a holy if you can suggest better way how can i raid heal as disc and still achieve that high HPS to not look ridicules pls do so.
    I was holy for along time untill pws became GCD and i know that in good hand holy can do massive ammounts of raid heals in 4-6 sec...
    while holy sits for 5 seconds and waits for somthing bad to happen and then fixes it in 3 more seconds i achieve same thing in exactly 8 seconds...
    if you look at it from my point of view holy raid healer "rests" for by the time i build up my shields...
    In the end after 8 sec he healed for 30k raid wide and i prevented 30k raid wide cant see much difference here same as you noted above.

    As for using the GCD's better i dont see a resting holy using his GCD's and no one complains
    Paranoid Tank: "Always be prepared for something to eat the healer..."

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