Ret Paladins are not needed in a 25 man raid, correct?

[iktankniet]

think you forgot to mention that retribution increases 3% of all dmg done. which no other class/spec can provide

[Relina]

How come nobody makes more of these threads than ret pallies? Just shut up and dps.

[Radio]

think you forgot to mention that retribution increases 3% of all dmg done. which no other class/spec can provide

Well, BM Hunters provide it, but BM is extremely weak at the moment, so it's retarded to bring a BM over a Ret.

One thing I want to mention is Judgement of Wisdom, if I don't have a ret pally in the raid (I'm a SV Hunter) I lose (And other classes would lose) heaps of DPS having to regain mana (Aspect of the Viper cuts 50% of my damage while its up). I always bring 1-2 to my 10 man ulduar group from my guild, and we always have 1-2 in our 25 man runs.

TLDR: Judgement of Wisdom = <3 for ret pallies

[Tengill]

hmmmm we even have 2 rets in raid and both of us is between middle and higher on the dps charts,

[Melonberry]

1 paladin is needed. 1 shaman is needed. no other spec/class is needed.

[shiftynou]

If you're a smart player, fulfill your spec's role adequately, and get on well with your fellow raiders, you will raid.

[parody]

We bring a ret pally cause he's in guild and contributes to the fight and pulls his weight. If you're rejecting people from your groups cause his buffs are spoken for, my belief is you're relying too much on buffs. You make it sound like you're being paid for your ability to progress while playing a game. I can understand the raid leader limited the number of melee to bring for KT type fights.

Play the game, have fun doing it.

[TanAxys]

Given the AoW changes, and assuming there won't be a CD adjustment on Exorcism, I doubt Ret will see any loss of DPS. Getting 1 melee crit within the 15 second CD of Exorcism is rediculously easy. Exorcism will still be instant for Ret. CS gains 33% in number of swings, but loses only 25% damage... this is a buff, not a nerf. SoC and/or SoV/C will be repalcing SoM/B with the perk of we won't have to worry about killing ourselves with our own DPS spike backlash. Vindication even gains PvE utility.

Any Ret that QQs about the PvE changes either can't read or doesn't understand game mechanics...


Now the PvP thing, that's a whole other issue. Ret went from easy mode, to ... well, we'll probably have to wait and see how the resilience changes shake out.

[Laszx]

Everything else is replable, and a GOOD Rogue, Warlock, Shadow Priest, or Mage will beat a good Ret Paladin any day of the week. Not to mention 3 of those four classes have range.

Forgot hunter dps? :-\

[Deathleech]

Ret DPS is a little low in PVE right now, but hopefully that will be fixed in patch 3.2. As it stands I think ret is fine. I am usually around 4-6th on the damage meters, topping out at 1st-2nd on fights like Thorim and Korogarn where the fight favors my DPS rotation which has some decent AoE involved. Not only that though, I bring a good amount of buffs.

Like was mentioned earlier BM DPS is pathetic so you will rarely find a hunter who specs BM anymore for raids, most are Survival. Boomkins are also pretty low on the DPS at the moment. We usually don't have either of these specs in our raid so that means I am the only one giving the +3% dmg buff and the +3% haste. Not only that I give another set of buffs (either kings, wis, might, and sanc), an extra aura, and most importantly the Judgment of Light that really helps keep people up. The only buffs that are not terribly useful are the 3% crit and Replenishment simply because so many other popular classes/specs have them as well.

Like I said I am ALWAYS brought because I do competitive DPS while also giving some nice buffs. In ten mans I am even more needed because I can give all the buffs that 3 or 4 other classes combined would give.

[kailtas]

ret healing with judge of light is over double of what a tank or healer would do

[Anderthel]

A good ret paladin does competitive DPS in every encounter. You're just terrible if you think you're good and yet "so far behind in almost every fight".

I agree. If you suck its not the classes fault. Its yours. I am one of 3 ret pallys in my guild. I routinely run in the top 5 for damage done. And just to educate in case you didn't know, it doesn't matter what your DPS is, its HOW MUCH DAMAGE YOU ARE DOING! I am usually (does happen on Ignis quite often though) never first in DPS but I usually always beat the top DPS'ers in damage done overall. That is the important one. People who worry what their DPS is doesn't understand the game and should stop playing before they hurt themselves.

[dreavgona]

Boomkins are also pretty low on the DPS at the moment.

Dont know with what kind of moonkins you have been playing, but I more then pull my weight in raids. Moonkins should average the same dps as most of your hybrid, being in the middle of the pack.

As for rets being needed or not in 25s, same as every other class/spec, you arent needed, but if you know your class/spec, you will have your raid spot.

[Deleted]

Getting 1 melee crit within the 15 second CD of Exorcism is rediculously easy.

Hmm, I remember a run to ZA where despite over 40% crit chance I didn't get any kind of crits for 30 seconds so that my Vengeance buff ran out. Got a crit right after that of course...

[Darrkh]

Maybe our ret paladin sucks, but you ret paladins are low on dps indeed.

The only reason we bring them to our raid is for Judgement of Light(that being the main reason), and the blessing. It is only those that give them a raid spot, not his (lack of) dps. 5K-5.2K is lack luster at best, and its not often he gets that high

[sah303136]

Hmm, I remember a run to ZA where despite over 40% crit chance I didn't get any kind of crits for 30 seconds so that my Vengeance buff ran out. Got a crit right after that of course...

rng is a bitch



a good ret pally is low on meters in a good guild with good dps in an ideal world where everyone is good etc etc hence the buffs

[Nienor]

lets talk about some facts

Fact 1
There's no unique buff at the momment in wow apart from heroism. That means that every class can be replaced by any other.

Fact 2
If you're doing Ulduar hard modes you need in your raid only THE BEST. You cant afford a low dps, or a useless healer or tank cause most of the fights are tuned to the edge.

Fact 3
ALL dps classes can do competitive dps apart from ret paladins. Plz dont bring me the argument " I'm top 3 dps in my guild so ur doing sth wrong" etc. None cares if your dpsers are outdpsed by a retri apart from your raid leader who might wanna replace those slackers anyway.

Fact 4
No matter how skilled you are as retri there's no chance in the world to outdps any "pure" dps class who doesnt die in a fight. Also shadow priests, shamans, lol-DKs, warriors, are ahead of retris by a large margin.

Fact 5
Rogues do RIDICULOUSLY high dps for their effort.

Fact 6
No raid leader in his right mind would ever bring a low dps in a tight fight.

Fact 7
Everyone is happy with paladins being down to the ground apart from the paladins ofc. None rly needs another competitive melee dps. Warriors are happy to be overpowered dps over the years with insane scaling despite being hybrids as well. Same goes for DKs even though they're a new class they dont want more melee competitors and they're happy to be toping the dps meters since day one of their release. Really who would like another comptetive melee class that could endanger their raid spot? So what they say is : "Shut up and play the game" ofc. I would say the same thing too.

These are some indisputable facts. My question is : Why every class has a competitive dps spec and paladins dont. Why arent paladins allowed to compete with every other dps class? Why are we being nerfed in every patch? Even the next patch seems to be a nerf. We lose our only ability that was a bit unique and could give us a raidspot. JoL. What we get isnt a dps buff. Just a rotation change.

For 4+ years now retribution paladins are a joke. With the release of 3.0 we saw the light of a promise for better future in wow. Since then we only got severe nerfs and now we're close to the TBC position. Once again we're one step from becoming lol-rets.
Everyone says "stfu and play", "qq more" , etc etc. Ofc they do. As i said before none wants another competitor in arenas or raids. But when the nerf bat slightly hits them the qq reaches the sky. Hunters got their no-brain-spec-where-their-pet-did-more-dmg-than-them and the qq was incredible. Same for warriors or rogues etc.... And those classes never got nerfed to the ground like paladins. They just lost some of their overpowered skills. Yet their qq was HUGE. We as paladins are being left to oblivion once again. Why should we stop our qq. It's the only thing we have left anyway....

[monkeydk]

lets talk about some facts

Fact 1
There's no unique buff at the momment in wow apart from heroism. That means that every class can be replaced by any other.

What about when paladin's Judgement of light, pretty unique, no? And i've heard of fights where ret paladins are doing 5k + hps aswell as decent dps, which means they can replace a healer on a tight fight for exra dps

[Deleted]

What about when paladin's Judgement of light, pretty unique, no? And i've heard of fights where ret paladins are doing 5k + hps aswell as decent dps, which means they can replace a healer on a tight fight for exra dps

Ah, "you've heard..." Hopefully your source is reliable.

Anyway, it doesn't work like that.

[monkeydk]

Ah, "you've heard..." Hopefully your source is reliable.

Anyway, it doesn't work like that.

Even still if i havnt got a source, thats a unique ability, nice raid healing as well as decent dps, which is nice to bring to a raid