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  1. #61

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    What you all seem to remember and forget as it suits is the movement involved in a lot of fights.
    Math simulation works on a patchwork stand and nuke.

    The more movement involved in a fight the higher value of the flexability of haste. re-applying/renewing/juggling of cooldowns around movement and mechanics required of a lot of fights.
    It's not a quantifyable value all the time.

  2. #62

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    Ulduar Movement :

    Ignis: No
    Razer: No
    XT Normal: Yes / Hardmode : No
    Council Normal: Yes / Hardmode : No
    Kologarn : No (unless u got Eye Beam)
    Auriaya : No
    Hodir: Yes (but this is rng, i had kills where i only moved coz of Flashfreeze)
    Thorim : (As no MCer) Yes
    Freya: Yes
    Mimiron Normal: No / Hardmode : Yes
    General Vezax : Yes but it doesnt matter here (MF MF MF MF MF MF ^^)
    Yogg: Yes

    Algalon: You have sometimes to move here but its RnG(Exploding Stars near you & Cosmic Splash near you) and ofc Big Bang :>

    So u see , there isnt alot of heavy movement encounter in Ulduar, Mimiron(hard) is by far ahead.

    P.S This is was I experienced, others may feel different about this.

  3. #63

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostprophet
    Ulduar Movement :

    Ignis: No
    Razer: No
    XT Normal: Yes / Hardmode : No
    Council Normal: Yes / Hardmode : No
    Kologarn : No (unless u got Eye Beam)
    Auriaya : No
    Hodir: Yes (but this is rng, i had kills where i only moved coz of Flashfreeze)
    Thorim : (As no MCer) Yes
    Freya: Yes
    Mimiron Normal: No / Hardmode : Yes
    General Vezax : Yes but it doesnt matter here (MF MF MF MF MF MF ^^)
    Yogg: Yes

    Algalon: You have sometimes to move here but its RnG(Exploding Stars near you & Cosmic Splash near you) and ofc Big Bang :>

    So u see , there isnt alot of heavy movement encounter in Ulduar, Mimiron(hard) is by far ahead.

    P.S This is was I experienced, others may feel different about this.
    Thats a complete oversimplification... last I did normal Mimiron I had to move out of laser barrage and rockets... you'd have to be very lucky with RNG to not have to move whatsoever... same goes for a lot of the other encounters you say no movement.

  4. #64

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by axxey
    What you all seem to remember and forget as it suits is the movement involved in a lot of fights.
    Math simulation works on a patchwork stand and nuke.

    The more movement involved in a fight the higher value of the flexability of haste. re-applying/renewing/juggling of cooldowns around movement and mechanics required of a lot of fights.
    It's not a quantifyable value all the time.
    With what logic did you conclude that haste outweighs other stats if there's movement involved? The higher spellpower and crit you got, the more damage you do while you move since we got 3 dots (and sw:d). That 0.1 sec that we get for "reapplying" is meaningless during a 5 min fight. Also, if you know you're going to move in next few sec, reapply the VT and start walking. You'll have the 3 dots up, and DP can be reapplied while moving anyway.

    Also, regarding movement - the only fight where we don't move at all is Ignis. I haven't seen Algalon so I know jack shit about that fight, but saying we're mostly stationary is false.

  5. #65

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    I never stated anything but that

    f(x) = 3 / (1 + (x / 100))

    Was a exponential function. So I don't care how much you misunderstood the concept, that function is not linear.
    this is not exponential, its a rational funktion (just to say sth :P)

  6. #66

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    With what logic did you conclude that haste outweighs other stats if there's movement involved? The higher spellpower and crit you got, the more damage you do while you move since we got 3 dots (and sw:d). That 0.1 sec that we get for "reapplying" is meaningless during a 5 min fight. Also, if you know you're going to move in next few sec, reapply the VT and start walking. You'll have the 3 dots up, and DP can be reapplied while moving anyway.

    Also, regarding movement - the only fight where we don't move at all is Ignis. I haven't seen Algalon so I know jack shit about that fight, but saying we're mostly stationary is false.
    Am I the only spriest that gets hit with flame jets... it tends to make me move.

    And I disagree that 0.1 sec less time to reapply dots is meaningless... all dps gains are small in nature, is the cumulative effect that turns into something substantial. The less time you are reapplying dots the more time you are spending casting MF, it's just that this form of haste is less effective than the haste spent on lessening your MF cast. As Nezoia said earlier, to what extent is anyones guess, it's particularly hard to model.

  7. #67

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    You my friend are in need of some special help....

    I NEVER stuff up except sometimes... well that's not never is it. Any I doubt the best spriest in the world (which isn't you by the way, shock horror) would claim they are perfect. I guess that goes towards how egotistical you are.
    I should have added a bit more.
    I don't stuff up unless Im distracted, by things outside of the game.
    So, I would say im near perfect.

    And my DPS is a little more than 200 dps behind, more like 2k, but cheers for your input.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Barthilas&n=Strykie

  8. #68
    I am Murloc!
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    5,275

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    If you finish 2k after #1 on say, Yogg-Saron or Mimiron, then you plain and simple, fail.

  9. #69

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Strykzor
    I should have added a bit more.
    I don't stuff up unless Im distracted, by things outside of the game.
    So, I would say im near perfect.

    And my DPS is a little more than 200 dps behind, more like 2k, but cheers for your input.
    Exactly what nezoia said, if ur 2k behind #1 on a lot of fights you are just bad... and thank you for proving my point that you're completely egotistical...

  10. #70

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    2k behind first on Yogg you must be DPSing as holy or disc.
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  11. #71

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Thats a complete oversimplification... last I did normal Mimiron I had to move out of laser barrage and rockets... you'd have to be very lucky with RNG to not have to move whatsoever... same goes for a lot of the other encounters you say no movement.
    On Normal Mode :
    P1 = No Moving at all
    P2 = You have to move once or twice... but i dont call that a movement phase....
    P3 = No Moving at all (Unless ure kiting the Assault bot and he got out of range)
    P4 = Same as P2

    As I said its only my opinion

  12. #72

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    If you finish 2k after #1 on say, Yogg-Saron or Mimiron, then you plain and simple, fail.
    If you play with 4 Watcher... you even should be #1 ( unless your warlocks are affli :/)

  13. #73

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Vexione
    2k behind first on Yogg you must be DPSing as holy or disc.
    When I make it to Yogg (as smite, not as holy, two different runs here)... can I has a prize if I'm less than 2k behind?
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
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  14. #74

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka

    And I disagree that 0.1 sec less time to reapply dots is meaningless...
    I didn't express properly what I meant with my post. If you are in situation where you choose haste over spellpower and crit with premise that haste will add more to your dps when you reapply the dots - it's false and haste in that situation is completely meaningless. When moving, we have 3 dots ticking, haste does jack shit for any of them so yea - haste is useless for movement involving fights. Spellpower and crit prevail.

    Also, I'm aware of pseudo numbers calculated at sp.com, however due to my high ping (spikes between 100 and 800) haste means even less for me and I would never take haste gear over crit gear for say Freya thinking how I'll reapply dots faster if I have 0.1 sec less cast time.

  15. #75

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostprophet
    On Normal Mode :
    P1 = No Moving at all
    P2 = You have to move once or twice... but i dont call that a movement phase....
    P3 = No Moving at all (Unless ure kiting the Assault bot and he got out of range)
    P4 = Same as P2

    As I said its only my opinion
    Phase 2 has laser barrage and rockets and any movement in the phase is more than likely to disrupt your priority rotation. That means you dont' get the opportunity to land VT exactly when it should, it results in conflicts and the more haste you have the quicker you resolve those conflicts.

    Phase 4 has plenty of movement, again laser barrage & double rockets... then there is the likely chaos that results around tanks having to move in and out of shock blast, meaning mines aren't always in the correct spot etc.

    My definition of a no movement fight is patchwerk... not Mimiron.

  16. #76

    Re: Shadow Haste Cap

    well, if you are not doing the hardmode, you get maximum 2 spinups, one in phase 2 one in phase 4 (with at least 50% chance youre already on the good side and theres no movement necessary), and well i killed mimiron 5 or 6 times now iirc and i just needed once to move out of a rocket


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