3.2 holy

[iktankniet]

Change beacon to something like the HL glyph.

"Whenever you heal that target, 50% of the healing done is split over 5 raidmembers"

50% is not that OP, if you fx. heal 10k, you heal 5 raidmembers for 1000 each.

aint this something like ancestral spirit of shamans?

[Raniz]

Change beacon to something like the HL glyph.

"Whenever you heal that target, 50% of the healing done is split over 5 raidmembers"

50% is not that OP, if you fx. heal 10k, you heal 5 raidmembers for 1000 each.

That is almost exactly the way the HL glyph works...

If you land a 10K heal on someone it will heal 5 raidmembers within 8y for 10% (each) of that.

I assume that you'd want the 50% to be distributed so a HL always hits for a total of 150% and not for ( 100 + [raidmembers within 8y or maximum 5] * 10 )%

[Nametaken]

the only reason this hasn't been nerfed yet is b/c blizz is too stupid to figure this out. did you see GC's breakdown of paladin mana regen? lmao. as soon as they catch on, you can say goodbye.

also, nametaken... beacon IS a reliable way to keep your tank capped on most of the fights in ulduar. if you 1) understand the dmg intake of your raid group 2) know how your raid healers will respond to the damage and 3) always keep a close eye on your tank as you "raid heal" you should almost never have any problem. what blizz did is dum the game way way down for you. maybe paladins weren't having "fun" because they have a hard time using the spell mechanics to their advantage? the only thing that needed tweaked on beacon was the range. overlap is nice too now.

Depends on your raid comp (and playstyle, sync with your fellow healers etc.); our healing team in Ulduar 10 is 2x holy priest and myself. With the strong AoE heals we put out my Beacon is usually a waste of GCD and mana, except during phases with heavy sustained raid damage.

To be honest...I'm fine with having a niche, MT healing is a-ok. But if Blizz wants to change it, hey, it's their game. I'll adapt and so will almost every other holy pally, just like we always have.

[exriel]

Are you saying that we should just run at boss and start chopping him for mana!??!

Yes, many of us already do. Use focus and mouseover macros so that you can keep you target on the boss and still heal. It is a safe strategy on almost every Uld boss:

FL - No mana used
RZ - Should be following behind as the tank kites anyway
IG - You never need to move since the tank is moving the boss around you
XT - Couldn't be a better fight for SoW
IC - Melee range is safe except for overload, which you should be aware of anyway
KO - Except for when you run from lasers, no reason not to be on the body
AU - Need to be in front of her anyway, might as well be in melee range
HO - Need to keep moving anyway, no reason you can't be in melee range except when avoiding falling snow
TH - Being closer to the boss makes it easier to avoid the big lightning anway
FR - Only XT is easier to melee the boss on
MI - Risk/Reward thing with respect to mines/overload in P1/P4 otherwise, have at it
GV - Fight makes regen irrelevant
YS - So much down time, hope you aren't having mana issues here...

[Daedalon]

Like has been said here before - Blizzard is taking the lazy way to "fix" issues. The strange thing. They are not fixing the issues that paladins really have. Infact they are not fixing anything - they are just reducing illumination. That was their only goal all along and it has been very clear for more than month now.

BUt... lets now talk as holy paladins - not as BLizzard dev.

Here are the problems that Holy paladins have.

1 - huge amount of overhealing
2 - very limited raid healing abilty.
3 - Weak group healing ability compared to other classes in 5 man groups
4 - Have very little or no value when taken more than one. Result leads to 2 holy paladins in a guild that sit out every other raid. Long term result.. No thank you.
5 - No smart healing ability while all other healing class have one. That makes those classes more effective healers and gives them more min/max value.
So what has been solved with these changes?

1- Overhealing is likely to increse with the BOL changes. Not a bit but alot. BOL is a good thing to have in certain situation
s. In others its actually worthless for anything other than huge amount of overhaling.
2 - THe raid healing ability of holy paladins is still very low with these changes. In fact - 2 holy paladins in a 10 man group cover 4 out of 10 players per GCD while all other combnation of healers cover 10.
3. Next patch will bring new 5 man content. Still.. every single holy paladin remembers Sunwell 5 man and knows for a fact that BLizzard can do exactly the same again now - and you know what... the BOL changes dont help a tiny bit there.
4. Still most raids have very little valure of taking more than one holy paladin since he is so niche that only 1 in 5 fights acutally provide a positive results compared to other healing classes that re much more versitile. Holy paladins will therefore be left out of raids. More than 2 holy paladins in a guild would be stupid. EVen when there would be a huge lack of healers ingame.
5. Holy paladins are not getting a smart heal with these changes. BLizzard instead wants to keep the niche of what they call a single target healer. When in fact the class is now a DOUBLE target healer with 2-3 GCD to actually make a valuable DOUBLE HEAL. Yes.. holy palas need to maintain sacred shield - Beacon of light - and THEN cast the new "improved" Flash of light before getting 2 ppl healed. At the same time he is actually casting the heal - he might notice that another person is actually dead... But hey.. then he can use the abilty of a glyph that is now even more worthless cause the mana efficency of the spell that uses it has been recued by 50%. In other words... the clas s is now less of a multihealer than before - and he is also less of a single target healer since his mana return is presuming his BOL lands on two ppl that need full health. Sounds good on PATCWERK - crap in other 25 encounters...

SO lets do the math shall we.

Illumination -1
BOL changes +1
More overheals -1
Less multitarget ablity -1
Less single target ability (extra GCD to make FOL effective) -1
More double target abilty (in certain situations) +1
Less versitile (based on less mana to use one of 3 healing abilites) -1
Staking of int is still around since DP will be the ONLY solution to maintain mana. IT reduces overall healing tho Not overhealing -1

All in all - there is much more negative coming out of these changes than positives for holy paladins. For Blizzard tho.. they have been able to changes what they wanted to change - and that was illumination nerf. The rest is not a problem they are focusing on. Its not THEIR problem....

Patch 3.2 is the best example of how to destroy a spec in a middle of an expansion. The changes are not done to fix the real issues. You dont need to be a genious in math to figure that out.

[shockpally]

It's a lot better than saying "oops, I'm oom, sorry I can't heal you anymore".

I think that if you time it right, you could technically stand right next to the boss, melee him, and cast in between while waiting on your next melee swing.

I'm not saying that you will be able to do this 100% of the time on every boss fight, but it sure is a good backup strategy and theoretically, an infinite source of mana regen which everyone seems to be QQing about even though holy paladins have never had mana issues.
DKs.

Sorry i cant find any time to Auto attack while i am keeping the tank alive.

Stop trolling.

[apokteino]

Sorry i cant find any time to Auto attack while i am keeping the tank alive.

Stop trolling.

as has been pointed out before... you auto attack through instant casts. if you haven't figured SoW out yet, i really do feel sorry for you.

[shockpally]

as has been pointed out before... you auto attack through instant casts. if you haven't figured SoW out yet, i really do feel sorry for you.

LOL

Holy shock + FoL still doesnt make up for HL. And while you are chopping at the Boss instead of casting your tank will die before the HS CD is up.

It wont work. Especially against any boss that has any kind of AE Damage. Which is most of them.

[kungfumonkey]

using seal of wisdom for mana regen is surprisingly easy on most bosses.
it just means you have to be a bit more "pro-active" in the raid rather than just planting your feet and one button casting your holy light.
Those who are bitching about it i suggest you give it a go.. you will be surprised how effective and simple it is. It also spices things up a bit

[nwo]

Sorry i cant find any time to Auto attack while i am keeping the tank alive.

Stop trolling.

srsly?

gtfo

Those who are bitching about it i suggest you give it a go.. you will be surprised how effective and simple it is. It also spices things up a bit

QFT

Definitely spices things up a bit, especially for people QQing about the fact that paladins are a boring class to play.

[wowman]

I've played a holy paladin since TBC day 1.

Right now, I'm no where near BiS gear. Fully raid buffed (WITHOUT Procs) I have 35k mana... lemme say that again. I have 35k mana.

I can spam holy light with no regard to anything, not becuase I'm a bad healer, but becuase I can. The Illumination talent was never intended to GIVE us mana, but simply supplement for how much we spend. At the moment, any half decent paladin knows that when you pop Divine Illumination + Divine favor and spam holy light non stop, you gain mana. It shouldn't work that way. It should work as a source to help sustain us during longer fights, not as a regen tool. We are the only class that can stack 1 and only 1 type of gem and become godly in every fight.

We needed a regen nerf, and we got it, & justifiably so.

The Holy paladin's main problem isn't the lack of group heals or raid heals. IMO its the lack of effective healing we are able to do. Thats because we have 2 choices, small heal or big heal. Small heal doesn't help when the tank gets hit for 30k, and big heal overheals when the tanks (or anyone) is > 8k under HP. So, there really isn't a choice. You spam HL because its your biggest heal and it really doesn't hurt your mana pool. (This has been discussed past the dead horse so I wont go into it further).

Blizzard has yet to help us on overhealing. They stated that they knew this was one of our biggest problems, and they said they would work on getting our effective healing up while lowering out overhealing. I think they DID make a good choice in some of the things they did.

With the change to beacon, we no longer have to worry about how much effective healing the tank will recieve with beacon. This will help to alleviate some of the worry that the tank will go down if you switch targets. It won't however help us in the overhealing department. The change to beacon will only escalate the overhealing we do. But, because of the changes, our number of holy lights will decrease, thus reducing the overhealing. The changes have yet to be known, but I have faith in blizzard.

The only change that I was hoping for that didn't come was to revert the change to sacred shield. I feel if we once again put it on multiple targets, this would further reduce our overhealing and help greatly with effective healing. This way we could play a small roll in reducing raid damage (just as a dis priest does by bubbling), but also by helping to raid heal via the FoL hot on SS targets.

a good example would be in the XT-002 fight (1st one I thought of).

If your tank is topped off, instead of continuing to spam HL, you could stop casting, and put SS on 6-7 raid memebers. Then the AoE damage hits, all of those targets now have a SS for 6 seconds. With beacon of light already on the MT, you quickly switch and FoL those 6 targets. Now because of the raid damage and how SS procs, those 6 targets just recieved a hot via your Flash of light all the while healing the tank 6-8k with each flash of light.

[Caean]

I've played a holy paladin since TBC day 1.

Right now, I'm no where near BiS gear. Fully raid buffed (WITHOUT Procs) I have 35k mana... lemme say that again. I have 35k mana.

I can spam holy light with no regard to anything, not becuase I'm a bad healer, but becuase I can. The Illumination talent was never intended to GIVE us mana, but simply supplement for how much we spend. At the moment, any half decent paladin knows that when you pop Divine Illumination + Divine favor and spam holy light non stop, you gain mana. It shouldn't work that way. It should work as a source to help sustain us during longer fights, not as a regen tool. We are the only class that can stack 1 and only 1 type of gem and become godly in every fight.

We needed a regen nerf, and we got it, & justifiably so.

You're making an argument for nerfing Divine Illumination, not Illumination.

Divine Illumination could be completely removed from the game right now and I doubt anyone would really care.

Is it nice? Sure. It helps from time to time. But it's flavor, not a bread and butter part of our healing mechanic like Illumination is.

You (Blizzard) built a class around int and crit...then act all surprised when that is precisely what people do, then act like we're somehow doing something wrong for gearing and gemming our class for the one attribute that the game designers gave us that impact our most important ability -- healing.

[Aressolo]

I've played a holy paladin since TBC day 1.

If your tank is topped off, instead of continuing to spam HL, you could stop casting, and put SS on 6-7 raid memebers. Then the AoE damage hits, all of those targets now have a SS for 6 seconds. With beacon of light already on the MT, you quickly switch and FoL those 6 targets. Now because of the raid damage and how SS procs, those 6 targets just recieved a hot via your Flash of light all the while healing the tank 6-8k with each flash of light.

Wut?

You played holy since TBC day 1, but stopped playing it when SS nerf went live.

[wowman]

I should have been more clear there, I apoligize. I just used Divine Illumination as an example.

The way paladins work now, when you use Divine Illumination and spam holy light, you gain mana.

With the nerf to Illumination, when you use Divine Illumination and spam holy light, you should simply sustain your mana for those 15 seconds.

We shouldn't beable to spam our largest heal and gain mana.

Wut?

You played holy since TBC day 1, but stopped playing it when SS nerf went live.

The only change that I was hoping for that didn't come [back in 3.2] was to revert the change to sacred shield. I feel if we could once again put it on multiple targets . . .

Did you even read my post?

[Aressolo]

We shouldn't beable to spam our largest heal and gain mana.

The only change that I was hoping for that didn't come [back in 3.2] was to revert the change to sacred shield. I feel if we could once again put it on multiple targets....

Did you even read my post?

I lost that part, sry for that.

Remaining on topic, does beacon count the FoL hot? And does the HoT remain on the target even if SS is dispelled?
If yes, then we only need to beacon the tank and SS --> FoL raid members (SS isn't mana-heavy, so casting it on every raid member won't drain our mana bar). But I really don't think it's going to work like this.

EDIT: Noticed another post only now

-The HoT healing is NOT transfered to the beacon target (stupid : / )

[wowman]

If you think about it now, the HoT via SS will be very inefficient. Since you can only SS 1 target at a time, you will have to wait for that person to take damage before you can apply the hot. In ulduar, raid wide damage is very common and it probably wont change in the 3.2 raid either.

But as far as the HoT via SS just seems clunky.

"cast SS on someone, that person takes damage, FoL to apply the hot"
"cast SS on someone else, ect ect.."


IMO it would feel a lot smoother being able to cast it on multiple targets again.

[Aressolo]

If you think about it now, the HoT via SS will be very inefficient. Since you can only SS 1 target at a time, you will have to wait for that person to take damage before you can apply the hot. In ulduar, raid wide damage is very common and it probably wont change in the 3.2 raid either.

But as far as the HoT via SS just seems clunky.

"cast SS on someone, that person takes damage, FoL to apply the hot"
"cast SS on someone else, ect ect.."


IMO it would feel a lot smoother being able to cast it on multiple targets again.

I read somewhere that you only need the first buff (the one during 30/60 sec) to apply the HoT.

EDIT: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=67530.0, first paragraph.

BTW beacon doesn't transfer the HoT, so SS->FoL the raid is useless.

[wowman]

ah, thats nice the actual shield doesn't have to be active. Thats a good change.

It will still feel clunky though trying to apply a hot on 2-3 people since you can only apply ss to 1 person at a time.

cast ss, cast fol on player 1
cast ss, cast fol on player 2
cast ss, cast fol on player 3 ect ect..

It would feel a lot smoother by allowing you to cast SS on multiple targets (again).

It doesn't bother me that the hot isn't transfered to the beacon since they are already getting the full effect from either your FoL or HL.

If the HoT DID xfer to the beacon..... Imagine if you could get ss on 6 targets, each with their own hot. So 6 targets with hots going to the beacon + your FoL's + your HL's. That would be pretty OP'd.

[Aressolo]

/castsequence reset=3 Sacred Shield, Flash of Light

Spam it on the raid.

Yes, now that I'm thinking better about it, it would have been OP.

[Mutin]

aint this something like ancestral spirit of shamans?

Not like copying other abilities is something blizzard isn't familiar with.