Bear tank on thorim

[Cottonmouth]

Because i need a reason to get my alt into 25 mans=) we dont have a bear tank atm lol

[Aoundril]

omg yes, u can be critted, u got talent -6% crit, but his unballancing strike is like -9% crit immune chance,so u are as good critable as warriors, but warriors can block :P.

Bears block too nowadays. It's called savage defense and blocks an amount equal to 25% of our AP after each of our crits. So essentially it's an offensively triggered block... And I believe it actually blocks blows coming from behind too

[mielikinna]

You need an additional 8% reduced chance to be critically hit through defense and resilience.

[generalanders]

What about paladins who fill up the hit table with block? Will they still take crits?

[CSJenova]

What about paladins who fill up the hit table with block? Will they still take crits?

Crits will always hit. It is based off of your defense which is what US decreases. Yes, every tank in their standard tanking gear will be crittable once hit with unbalancing strike.

Feral have the advantage of 6% reduction from talents making resilience a possibility to remove the US debuff induced crits from the table...but as others have said, you will have 2 tanks already anyway, so unless you are speed running it in which case the additional DPS the second tank might add by swapping SOME gear might make a small difference, it is a little unnecessary, imo.

[Auton]

What about paladins who fill up the hit table with block? Will they still take crits?

Yes. Only difference is that they can then block part of that crit damage. But blocking 2k of a 60k crit is still dead.

[Kunwio]

It is possible to become uncrittable on Thorim as a bear. This requires an additional 7.6% crit chance reduction. Bosses have a base crit chance of 5.6% against a level 80 tank, Survival of the Fittest reduces melee crit chance against you by 6%, meaning a -0.4% chance to be crit, Unbalancing Strike reduces your defense skill by 200, which, regardless of whether a tank stacks defense rating or has survival of the fittest, is an extra 8% chance to be crit (200 defense = -8% to be crit). 8, minus the extra -0.4% chance to be crit that bears receive from talents, equals 7.6%, meaning that during unbalancing strikes you have a 7.6% to be crit by Thorim as a bear.

To make yourself uncrittable for the Thorim fight, you would need something over 900 extra defense rating, or about 623 resilience, or some combination of the 2. Since 623 resilience is actually not that hard to reach, and pvp gear tends to have -decent- tanking stats for feral (high in stam and agi), it is really not that hard to build a set for the Thorim fight as a bear that would make you uncrittable.

All other tanks would require the standard amount of defense rating to reach -5.6% crit chance as well as an extra -8% crit chance from excess resil or defense rating, which is MUCH more difficult, so this method is really only feasible for a bear tank.

Rawr can help you ensure that your set has the appropriate amount of crit reduction.

[generalanders]

Crits will always hit. It is based off of your defense which is what US decreases. Yes, every tank in their standard tanking gear will be crittable once hit with unbalancing strike.

Feral have the advantage of 6% reduction from talents making resilience a possibility to remove the US debuff induced crits from the table...but as others have said, you will have 2 tanks already anyway, so unless you are speed running it in which case the additional DPS the second tank might add by swapping SOME gear might make a small difference, it is a little unnecessary, imo.

Ah, found the discussion on tankspot.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...hp?f=6&t=23068

[CSJenova]

Ah, found the discussion on tankspot.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...hp?f=6&t=23068

I stand corrected. Thank you for that. 130% total avoidance doesn't sound like fun though :P

[generalanders]

I'm a nub, the link was maintankadin.

[Deleted]

haven't read the disussion but i guess its about the single roll system attaks are made on wich pretty much means that blocked hit's can't be critt's meaning a warior popping shield block won't get critted to and paladins who reaches 130% combined avoidance won't get hit either but that would mean sacrificing alot of stamina for avoidance.
so best thing is propably to have 2 tanks taunt of eachother or chain CD's.

[CSJenova]

That was the generally idea by the end of the thread as well maaghen. It was more a discussion of being technically possible than reasonable.

[Cottonmouth]

So resilence does work for pve now? thought they changed that

or does it only work on thorim for bears

[gibborim]

I'm quite sure this is still based on defense. Normally a lvl 80 tank will have 400 defense without gear or talents, making him crush immune against lvl 73's. If he suddenly has only 350 defense becouse of unbalancing strike, he wouldn't be crush immune against lvl 73's anymore.

That's my theory anyway.

It is based on defense. That does not change the fact that something has to be 4 levels higher than you to Crush.

[Imadroodlol]

YUP.

[Alski]

So resilence does work for pve now? thought they changed that

or does it only work on thorim for bears

They said they were taking it out but never got around to it.

[Kunwio]

So resilence does work for pve now? thought they changed that

or does it only work on thorim for bears

Resilience has always worked to reduce chance to be crit in PvE as well as PvP, and will continue to do so in 3.2 in its current state, even with the other changes to resilience.

[Morganaugh]

We're going to try HM 25 Thorim today, GM asked me to make a tanking set with resil specifically for this.
I'm not really sure why since we need another tank in the arena. Though.. that tank is a DK so they might somehow be able to go pure dps? not a DK person so I dont really know.

Anyway, what I was wondering about were the changes to resil next patch. Since they are soon to flat out reduce inc damage, pvp gear is already borderline to pve gear. If this new resil works in pve then it'll be able to mitigate pure damage, including magic. Wont this push pvp gear over the top in value for bear tanks? Hopefully someone at blizz sees this or I'm just missing something.

[Alski]

Anyway, what I was wondering about were the changes to resil next patch. Since they are soon to flat out reduce inc damage, pvp gear is already borderline to pve gear. If this new resil works in pve then it'll be able to mitigate pure damage, including magic. Wont this push pvp gear over the top in value for bear tanks? Hopefully someone at blizz sees this or I'm just missing something.

They have specifically stated that the flat damage reduction will only work in pvp and not pve

[coocoo]

As of 3.0, crushing blows mechanism have been changed. Now only mob four level higher than you can deal crushing blows. Therefore, uncrushability is irrelevant for raids.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Crushing_blow

I love it when people don't read what they link.

"When the attacking mob has more than 20 points of weapon skill above the player's current base defense there is a chance of being struck by a crushing blow. If the rating difference is exactly 20 points, which is common for players being attacked by "boss" mobs (who are always treated as 3 levels higher than their attackers), then the player cannot be hit by a crushing blow."


Regarding defense (and crushing blows): http://www.wowwiki.com/Defense

"Only the player's base defense skill (capped at 5 times the player's level, e.g. 350 for a level 70 player or 400 for a level 80 player) is taken into account to determine the base chance for a Crushing Blow, and therefore Defense Rating on gear does not directly decrease the chance for a Crushing Blow."

Unbalancing Strike lowers our base defense from 400 down to 200 -> we are crushable, as has been shown by combat logs of phase1 adds doing crushing blows on tanks if still alive at phase2 (and since Thorim doesn't crush us, he's obviously scripted to not do it).


Since we're having another Thorim thread here, has anyone tried Darkmoon Card: Berserker! ?