Ret paladin PTR questions

[Djkao]

I frequent this site but have not had an account until now. I saw this post, read it, digested it, and had to go out of my way to register so that I could tell you one thing...and if I didn't do this it would bother me the rest of the day.

You, your "math", and your "logic" are so full of fail it is mind blowing. Next time you want to pull random numbers out of your ass do it on a lottery ticket.

<3

[Sevearith]

I did some testing with the new SOC/SOV and the old SOM with pvp gear and pvp talent build.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ar&n=Sevearith

3.1 SOM (Old)
Name count damage % total amount done = 121,104 DMG
SOM 24 35940 29.7
Mele 13 29393 24.3
DS 8 19226 15.9
CS 6 16870 13.9
Judge 7 16762 13.8
Darkmoon 1 2913 2.4
card

3.2 SOC (new patch)
Name count damage % total Amount done = 120526 DMG
SOC 29 36664 30.4
Mele 15 24955 20.7
DS 8 15727 13.0
Judge 6 14698 12.2
CS 8 14008 11.6
Exor 3 11574 9.6
Darkmoon 1 2400 2.4
card

3.2 SOV (new patch)
count damage % total amount done = 124543 DMG
Mele 13 23481 18.9
SOV 19 23374 18.8
(DOT) 31 18946 15.2
Judge 6 16115 12.9
CS 8 13367 10.7
DS 8 12965 10.4
Excor 3 9719 7.8
Darkmoon 2 9576 5.3
card


I tested each seal for 45 secs on a test dummy. I'm aware that crits could have made one better than the other but it does look like SOC is very viable for pvp (its about time). It also looks like SOV would work but since resil has a bigger effect in arena now and since SOV now stacks better in pve becuz of the new gear set bonuses you wont see it too much in arena. I also dont like to rely on dots so it looks as though SOC will be my next seal. Now keep in mind all the abilities that are out are subject to change by Blizzard but these are just the starting numbers. I'm very curious to see whats gonna come next.

[Adamson]

45 second tests mean nothing..

Your tests at a minimum should be 5 minutes.

[Sevearith]

So first off, elaborate on how 45 secs doesnt matter and second jus multiply it by 5 you smartass.

[Requital]

Two 5 min tests, using the same rotation I use on live just testing to see where we are.

Rotation CS -> HoW -> Judge -> DS -> Exo

w/o Cons


Rotation CS -> HoW -> Judge -> DS -> Cons -> Exo

w/ cons


Before you flame over anything, I gained extra hit on PTR no idea where from, On live I'm at 267 with 28 Expertise. On test I'm at 36 because of the SoV/C Glyph these numbers are down from live for me. The biggest issue I see is CD Clashing and Mana consumption, Overall I'm not happy but I'll give Blizzard a chance to make it right. CS will be lower priority based on being the weakest attack we have now and because of that the 4 seconds off does not make up for what was lost and maintaining the 4 seconds doesn't allow for other skills without mana turning on you.

[Sevillian]

So first off, elaborate on how 45 secs doesnt matter and second jus multiply it by 5 you smartass.

Why stop there. We should do 10 second tests and multiply by 30!

...

Dumb ass.

[harky]

Hell, let's flip a coin once and then multiply by 100 to figure out which is more likely.

Interesting results, kind of sad that this is confirmed as primarily a PVP-inspired change and it's impacting PVE so heavily. I do wonder though if the priority is being skewed by using DPS per cast rather than DPS per cooldown, since the DPS per cooldown has actually gone up slightly and as such would be still be the top priority under that weighting.

[Sevearith]

So heres why I put it at 45 secs.

A. Arena matches last anywhere from 2-3mins in 3v3
B. The dmg you put out at the start of a match is what rly matters (deplete there cds, defensive and offensive)
C. Both my darkmoon cards have a 45 sec proc so I wanted to get one proc from each within the time frame

This test was for arena purposes not pve, I'm sry if I made anyone angry.

Dumb fuck

[OmegaV]

Eh I don't have any Pics or exact numbers...but..

With the same exact gear, no changes in numbers and the same glyphs. My DPS on the dummy was 3400 on PTR and 3000 on on live...yeah...its a DPS increase...Mana becomes somewhat of a pain though

Also the DPS test I did, was exactly 2 minutes. and that was using AW exactly 15 seconds in....so for people saying its a nerf....yeah your wrong

Also my Armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Onyxia&n=Hemos

though the biggest issue is the 4 second CD throws me off somewhat

[Spanka]

Eh I don't have any Pics or exact numbers...but..

With the same exact gear, no changes in numbers and the same glyphs. My DPS on the dummy was 3400 on PTR and 3000 on on live...yeah...its a DPS increase...Mana becomes somewhat of a pain though

Also the DPS test I did, was exactly 2 minutes. and that was using AW exactly 15 seconds in....so for people saying its a nerf....yeah your wrong

Also my Armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Onyxia&n=Hemos

though the biggest issue is the 4 second CD throws me off somewhat

Did you use a consistant rotation for these test or did you play wack-a-mole?

[Sevearith]

Lol WACK A MOLE....thats such a good analogy! heh =)

[OmegaV]

Did you use a consistant rotation for these test or did you play wack-a-mole?

For Live I used the basic idea of
CS>How>Judge>DS>Cons>Exo

well no HoW

and PTR I tried to follow the same idea though the CS CD threw me off some

[Spanka]

For Live I used the basic idea of
CS>How>Judge>DS>Cons>Exo

well no HoW

and PTR I tried to follow the same idea though the CS CD threw me off some

Ok. I was wondering what the dmg would look like in a test where, unlike the guy who posted a few pages back, you followed a CD weighted system instead of a dmg weighted system. i.e. didn't drop CS's priority down as far as he did.

This sounds promising though. If we could just get Bliz to reduce the mana cost so its not draining us, it would be nice.

[Ronark]

ffs fix this stuff allready

Yeah I know.... I was at work for 12 hours after posting the original post, so I'll help with the answers in the order asked.

Question:
Have Crusader-strikes mana costs been lowered?
Is JotW enough without T7-4 Bonus?

CS is still at 8% base mana. With moving the FCFS rotation around to Judge (when at 5 stacks) > (HoW) > DS > CS >Exo > Cons you see less mana issues, but you still need to be spamming DP off every cooldown.

vindication was like 23/46 and scaled with lvl. so minimal AP decrease is 23 and a maximal of 46?

i want to know if the ap reduction is random between the 2 numbers or something else.

its something like 270/540 AP reduction at 80

what's your initial report about whether overall damage has taken a nerf or a buff with 3.2?

Vindication scales with level: The talent calculator here at MMO shows talents as if at level one: Remember when the Frost Aura for DKs only showed 0.5/1 Spell resistance? Thats because the calculator assumed a value of Level 1 (where it is 0.5 or 1 * Your level).

Basically, Vindication is 287/574 at L80.

PvE damage is buffed, with the changes to SoVeng it easily out damages SotM.

Vengeance/Corruption or Command for PVE dps? :

Its what we expected: SoVeng for Bosses/mobs that live long, Command for fast AE trash and soloing.

Possible to get a picture of the new "Paladin only" mount from the Argent Tournament?

Not this isn't my character, but whatever. It costs 100 Champion Seals, and Requires the Crusader title and, of course, being a Paladin.

Are they leaving the Glyph of Vengeance as is? Seems like the passive 10 expertise rating would be nice if it end up being the seal of choice for PVE damage.

So far no changes have been made yet to the Glyph.

So... how much dmg does a normal judge from vengence or comand ? cus atm on the ulduar patch im doing 1100 dmg... [with martyr] dont tell me i will do lower then 1k ??? :'(

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=67407.0

I get SoVeng Judges (at 5 stacks) at around average of 2315 on hits and 4519 on crits.

Command is MUCH weaker (due to SotP no affecting it), and deals 1.2-1.3k normal damage and 2.8-3k Crits; and yes, it No Longer has a 100% Crit chance on Stunned Targets.

Keep the questions coming, I'm off to gather some Heroic dungeon data and compare it to what I got on the Target Dummy.

[Spanka]

Off topic for a half second here. What UI is that? its freaking awesome.

[Ronark]

Off topic for a half second here. What UI is that? its freaking awesome.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...827092&sid=1#6

* 7. Re: new paladin mount(s)? 06/24/2009 01:24:54 AM CDT

Yeah thats the paladin only one, its available from the vendor for 100 seals

the UI is mostly something called SpartanUI www.spartanui.com though I run a bunch of other crap too, I just copied over my live ui to the ptr

[Spanka]

Quick question about SOV after the changes. Is it one stack per pally? or one stack per mob?

[Ronark]

Quick question about SOV after the changes. Is it one stack per pally? or one stack per mob?

It is per paladin: this changes is actually on Live now and has been since TBC: However, it was updated in Patch 2.2.0 so that you only gain the bonuses (of judging) when you had 5 stacks of your own.

[Ronark]

Also, it seems the PPM for our new Libram is 0- It is almost constantly up. o.O

[Adamson]

So first off, elaborate on how 45 secs doesnt matter and second jus multiply it by 5 you smartass.

>:/