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  1. #1

    validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=10026

    the main cons of this build:
    no imp hoj, no 60 second sacred shield.
    must work with teammates who's cc doesn't break on dmg (fear, glyphed sheep), or low cc teams (cleave)
    swapping targets takes a decent amount longer (not a problem for tunnel vision cleave).

    pros:
    2x judge dmg, extra dot dmg
    30% off fear/disorient (fear is a big weakness)

    to compare, standard build:
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=10026

    whats your take on vengeance in pvp?

    I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't screw to save its species
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Illidan&n=Sinders

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    I think it will be more viable in 5's then 3's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
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  3. #3

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    im honestly thinking that SoC/SoV is gona be better in pvp, since SoCom deals shitty judge dmg :<

    oh and Sinders, u forgot Hex

  4. #4
    Pit Lord iktankniet's Avatar
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    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    my idea is to take those points in reduced fear and put them into imp righteous fury. if you are gonna play 3's 5's, you will have 2 ppl who probably can dispell it, or a tremor totem.

  5. #5

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenhour
    im honestly thinking that SoC/SoV is gona be better in pvp, since SoCom deals shitty judge dmg :<

    oh and Sinders, u forgot Hex
    i wasn't trying to make an actual list, but yeah. yeah to the shitty dmg too.
    Quote Originally Posted by iktankniet
    my idea is to take those points in reduced fear and put them into imp righteous fury. if you are gonna play 3's 5's, you will have 2 ppl who probably can dispell it, or a tremor totem.
    there are quite a few instances where your teammates wont have the time to remove your fear (also los and range issues), and those tremor totems will still be a big priority to kill by anyone.
    not to mention if you're feared for half duratoin due to dr, you'll prolly have it wear off before they can cleanse it

    ive always wanted the fear reduc.

    I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't screw to save its species
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Illidan&n=Sinders

  6. #6

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    ive been playing a double healer comp lately, with a disc and resto shammy, and we noticed that cleave teams are very dominant when facing us, so it might be something to look into, but in the end, most higher end teams will have a dispel and can easily cut down damage if you dont keep that dot stacked, especially with a double healer team like mine, since the damage output is not as high and they wont have to worry about healing as much as they will dispelling, but still, thats how it couldnt work with my comp. tho maybe with a dk or warrior it could be very viable.

  7. #7

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by GamorKilrogg
    ive been playing a double healer comp lately, with a disc and resto shammy, and we noticed that cleave teams are very dominant when facing us, so it might be something to look into, but in the end, most higher end teams will have a dispel and can easily cut down damage if you dont keep that dot stacked, especially with a double healer team like mine, since the damage output is not as high and they wont have to worry about healing as much as they will dispelling, but still, thats how it couldnt work with my comp. tho maybe with a dk or warrior it could be very viable.
    im not even sure if its dispellable, but if it is, its a huuuuuge mana waste to dispell it. the stacks apply really, really fast, and its something like 500 mana for a priests dispell.

    i dont really believe ret was built for double healer teams tho. maybe in the future

    I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't screw to save its species
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Illidan&n=Sinders

  8. #8

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    It can be dispelled, but it is a huge huge mana sink to try to keep ret magical debuffs off. You can proc no less than THREE debuffs off a single swing, not to mention the judge debuff every 8. Adding in stoicism, that's just going to overload any single dispeller in no time.

    Sure, they can luck out and dispel a veng stack at a key moment, but they can also end up going resist vindi RV resist veng stack or whatever. It's a vulnerability but not a major one, also good with anyone else who has their own debuffs.

  9. #9

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    Have the dot not break CC and then we'll talk..



    edit:

    I can see SoV being interesting with a warlock on your team, it would make dispels a nightmare for the opposing team. Say Ret/Lock/RDruid, it's a comp Id be willing to try.

    This bro told a cool story on 2009-12-03 and proudly took part in the banfest.

  10. #10

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    By the way: Did they remove commands 1-sec cooldown?
    In its current state, commands judgement is okey, because it can trigger the seal, oh yes.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

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    • In ordner to better fit the current post-truth zeitgeist, we are going to rename alle occurences of "artefact" into "artebelieve".

  11. #11

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    SoV will make switching between targets less instant, but since we lost some of our burst the "switch and kill" won't be working anyway.

  12. #12

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    From the numbers I've seen, judgement of vengeance does a good 20-30% (if not more) damage than command. Command numbers were pretty low and the fact that it doesn't automatically crit anymore on stunned targets is quite a crappy PVP nerf.
    [23:43:22] [P] [85:Bowsjob]: If its between 2 holy pallys its gonna be a gear fight most likely

  13. #13

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    I am just curious wat libram should a SoC ret pvp pally take in 3.2? I mean there's a new one fore SoV...


    I am not that good I know...

  14. #14

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    Why do you have one point in RV if you intend to use SoV anyway? :P

    My take is that the 5 stack vengeance is blizz's idea of a "set up" for burst and that command will be a levelling/trash seal.

    By the way I thought I saw a blue post a while ago saying they'll make repentance immune to RV and SoV dot damage or was I imagining things?

  15. #15
    Pit Lord iktankniet's Avatar
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    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaDora25
    I am just curious wat libram should a SoC ret pvp pally take in 3.2? I mean there's a new one fore SoV...
    if i remember correctly, there is a SoC libram that increases crit. would be a nice option for pvp.

  16. #16

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    SoV only does 33% weapon dmg when there's 5 stacks of it on the player right? cause if so then i don't see it being good at all in pvp since those dots will be easily dispelled

  17. #17
    Pit Lord iktankniet's Avatar
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    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by Pereira
    SoV only does 33% weapon dmg when there's 5 stacks of it on the player right? cause if so then i don't see it being good at all in pvp since those dots will be easily dispelled
    it is a stack of 5 with a 30% dispel resistance. it really isnt that easy as you think. applying it happens when you CS/auto attack/DS/auto attack. that is 4 stacks in 2gcd's. stacking it wont be a problem.

  18. #18

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by Pereira
    SoV only does 33% weapon dmg when there's 5 stacks of it on the player right? cause if so then i don't see it being good at all in pvp since those dots will be easily dispelled
    Well, there's the Judgement debuff and the vindication debuff up as well. And with a 30% dispell resistance, its not that easy to get rid of a stacked x5 debuff (If each stack needs to be dispelled on its own).

  19. #19

    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    If I was playing ret, I would be all for healers trying to spam dispel because all this will do is make them go oom and give me a chance to actually kill them because they have to go through judgement + vindication + 30% dispel resistance and this DoT stacks with any one of your melee abilities both white and special attacks so it stacks very fast and it's gonna be tough to get it below 3 or 4 stacks.
    [23:43:22] [P] [85:Bowsjob]: If its between 2 holy pallys its gonna be a gear fight most likely

  20. #20
    Pit Lord iktankniet's Avatar
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    Re: validity of seal of vengeance in pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by nwo
    If I was playing ret, I would be all for healers trying to spam dispel because all this will do is make them go oom and give me a chance to actually kill them because they have to go through judgement + vindication + 30% dispel resistance and this DoT stacks with any one of your melee abilities both white and special attacks so it stacks very fast and it's gonna be tough to get it below 3 or 4 stacks.
    list of debuffs on the target:

    RV
    HotC
    Judgement of Wisdom/Light/Justice
    Vindication
    Seal of Vengeance
    Seal of Vengeance
    Seal of Vengeance
    Seal of Vengeance
    Seal of Vengeance

    +30% dispel resistance

    gl on that!

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