New Feral Druid - Got Some Questions : )

[Aleksej89]

Well first id like to thank you all for reading and possibly answering my questions ^^
Here are the questions:
1. Many Feral CAT abilities have tooltips with a percentage, for example 260% on Swipe.
What 260% is it reffering to? Does it have any corelation to the currently used Weapon? Will my abilities do more damage if i use a weapon with larger maximum damage (staff vs dagger, for example)?
2. What is the most profitable stat for gemming n enchanting for a Cat? Agility or Attack Power or Crit rating?

Il add more q later ^^ thx for asnwering again

[Renamefailed]

catform- gem/enchant agil till 50% crit then stack ArP

bearform-healthy mix of agil/stam once expertise capped

weapon dmg is based off your atk speed in bear or catform

catform atk speed is 1.0 bear is 2.5
the weapon speed your using doesn't matter at all

[Hosebee]

Stacking ArP is based off of a couple of caveats: having one of the ArP trinkets and having enough ArP from gear (200-250ish I believe) if those two things aren't met then Agi still trumps ArP.

[Aleksej89]

Ok thanks for the answers maties ^^
So just to make sure, gemming for Agility is the best choice?
Are perhaps Agi+Crit Rating gems better OR Attpower+Crit rating or just pure Agility? Il be Cat-only, so no bear tanking..

Also, for PvP, is Shred more utilized or Mangle as the ''spam'' ability?
Do i keep Savage Roar buff up in PvP?
Do i use Rake in PvP?
Do i use Rip or Ferocious Bite or Maim in PvP?
Should i open with Pounce or Ravage?
Is it common to Shapeshift to Bear form to perform Bash or Charge in order to gain an advantage in PvP? Or is it no longer practical to do that?
Is Swipe a good AoE ability, or is it better for me to perform the ussual Single target DPS rotation and ignore the adds? How many Mobs need to be in the Swipe AoE in order for Swipe to do better damage then Single target DPS rotation? Im asking this primarily for Heroics for Emblem collecting..

edit: How is Haste useful to Cat Ferals? Does Haste in any way affect our Bleeds damage or duration or ticks?
edit: What is the best way to get Hit/Exper Capped as a PvP Cat druid? Should i get Hit/Exper capped through Gear pieces or Gems or Enchants or a combination? Please give some suggestions or examples.

Well thats it for now.. thanks for helping folks

[Chiper]

Disclaimer on this before I start, most of my PvPing is BGs and Wintergrasp, I'm sure these answers are different for Arenas.

Also, for PvP, is Shred more utilized or Mangle as the ''spam'' ability?
Mangle's crit potential makes it very favorable and I always open with it and hit it with each cooldown, but I hit other stuff between mangles. If it's a player I'm going after I tend to rely on Claw as my spammable simply to make it easier to actually hit them. Against vehicles I always use shred.

Do i keep Savage Roar buff up in PvP?
Depending on how much health the target has, SR is often the most useful way to spend your combat points. If the player is below 50%, spend those points on SR. The player doesn't usually live long enough for Rip to run its full course and Bite is typically overkill. If they player is above 50%, use those points on Maim every chance you get. Immobilizing the enemy is way more useful than high powered hits.

Do i use Rake in PvP?
Against vehicles definitely, against players you might be better off with shred or claw. The exception to this is that it can be quite useful on healers since the periodic will slow down their casts.

Do i use Rip or Ferocious Bite or Maim in PvP? See above

Should i open with Pounce or Ravage? Pounce against players and trash, Ravage against vehicles and bosses (they're immune to pounce's stun).

[I]Is it common to Shapeshift to Bear form to perform Bash or Charge in order to gain an advantage in PvP? Or is it no longer practical to do that?[i]
Cat Feral Charge > Bear Feral Charge. There's no energy loss, only uses one GCD, and puts you behind the target.

Is Swipe a good AoE ability, or is it better for me to perform the ussual Single target DPS rotation and ignore the adds? How many Mobs need to be in the Swipe AoE in order for Swipe to do better damage then Single target DPS rotation? Im asking this primarily for Heroics for Emblem collecting..
Same rules as with any AoE. If you're only looking at two targets it's generally not worth it to AoE. Even three targets can be sketchy. Four targets, definitely use swipe.

[Nenaunir]

I really hope the poster above me isn't serious. If he is some notes to what he said:

* Never ever use claw once you got mangle. Mangle and Claw have the same energy cost and Mangle does a lot more damage for that same energy. So there's no reason at all to use claw anymore.

* Rake on Vehicles? Vehicles can't bleed so there's no sense using rake, rip, pounce and whatever other bleeds on a vehicle.

* Bear Charge > Cat charge in a lot of cases. Cat charge only dazes a target, while bear charge immobilises it and interrupts spellcasting. It also give you the ability to follow up with Bash for a couple of seconds stun.

* Basically you always want to keep Mangle debuff up, You want to keep rake up since it's high dmg and ignores armor. You always want to try to get behind a target and shred since it's your best spammable ability.

I don't tend to keep up Savage Roar in bg's. I keep it up most of the time in arena's in 2v2's, but i guess it might also depend what setup you play.

Keeping up Mangle debuff and Rake and Rip all with Savage roar up is tons of dmg just from bleed ticks. If you then are able to put a bit of extra pressure with mangle or shred it's the best way to burst someone. Remember that you don't have to use a 5 comobo point savage roar for maximal effect. You can just go for 1 combo point, SR, build up to 5 combo points again and rip or maim to open up with.

[Aleksej89]

Okay, thanks for answering ^^


If anyone could help me with these, since im really clueless here;


How is Haste useful to Cat Ferals? Does Haste in any way affect our Bleeds damage or duration or ticks? What does Haste affect in Cat Druids?

What is the best way to get Hit/Exper Capped as a PvP Cat druid? Should i get Hit/Exper capped through Gear pieces or Gems or Enchants or a combination? Please give some suggestions or examples.

Does the talent Nurturing Instincts have any noticable effect on my healing spells or is it too weak to be worth 2 talents?

How do i kill Healers as a Cat druid? Since i do not have MS-effect or mana drain, how am i supposed to kill them swiftly and safely?

Please suggest the best Major Glyphs for Cat druids in BGs and WG (no arena)

In PvP, what is my main self-healing ''rotation''? Is it Regrowth + Rejuvenation or HT spam or something else?

Is Infected Wounds talent good in PvP? Is it worth taking?

Should i invest Talents into lowering the Energy cost of Mangle (Ferocity and Imp. Mangle)? Or should i stick with Shred and use un-talented Mangle just for debuff?

Are Omen of Clarity and Master Shapeshifter (restoration) good for PvP Cat and worth investing all those talent points?

Should i talent Primal Gore for Rip criticals in PvP or is it a waste?

Should i invest 2 talent points in Primal Precision or get Expertise capped through equipment without that talent?

Is it worth putting 5 talents into Furor or is 3p Furor and 2p imp.MotW better?

How much are the following talents worth to a Cat PvP Druid:
- Feral Instinct
- Thick Hide
- Brutal Impact
- Improved Leader of the Pack
- Intensity (restoration)
- Survival of the Fittest


Thanks again for reading and possibly answering to my wall-o-text ^^

[Renamefailed]

use this spec for Bg pvp
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZxGMsfbdbeRhcuVk0Eczo

High survivability, good dmg and utility

this is my arena build
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZxGMsfddbeRhIuVk0E0z

make your own ideas of what talents are good and not

also shred is your ability you spam if several conditions are fulfilled

1 SR is up
2 Mangle is up
3 Rake is up
4 FB if at 5 cps + lots of energy(only happens during berserk)

alot of pvp as a feral druid is just learning your weaknesses and strengths.

and you can always run away if all else fails. It's basically impossible to catch you with the 4 pc pvp set bonus

[crayven]

use this spec for Bg pvp
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZxGMsfbdbeRhcuVk0Eczo

High survivability, good dmg and utility

I don't really see the utility of Feral Instinct - he is not tanking and staying stealthed is not really pvp, once stealth brakes and he attacks that talent become utterly useless - and it's 3 points that could go into , say 1 mss and primal precision.

[Nenaunir]

Only spot you could put those points from Feral Instinct in is either Thick Hide or Feral Aggression because you can't reach tier 3 talents otherwise.

For purely battleground pvp the improved stealth isn'tt too useful but in arena's it can mean the difference between getting an opener and not getting it.

I prefer Protector of the Pack over Predatory Instincts for a bit extra defense when needed, but that's personal

[VirtuousX]

I don't really see the utility of Feral Instinct - he is not tanking and staying stealthed is not really pvp, once stealth brakes and he attacks that talent become utterly useless - and it's 3 points that could go into , say 1 mss and primal precision.

You sure? Take a good look at the feral tree one more time if you are not so familiar with it. You'd rather take 10% armor or slightly better fero bite than stronger stealth? May I laugh at you straight on your face

[Balduvian]

Also, for PvP, is Shred more utilized or Mangle as the ''spam'' ability?
Mangle's crit potential makes it very favorable and I always open with it and hit it with each cooldown, but I hit other stuff between mangles. If it's a player I'm going after I tend to rely on Claw as my spammable simply to make it easier to actually hit them. Against vehicles I always use shred.

Mangle doesn't have a cooldown unless you mean Mangle (Bear) or something else...
And....Holy ****. Claw? I mean..are you serious? Mangle costs the same ammount of energy ( less talented ), deals way more damage and gives you an extra bonus (30% more damage on bleeds)

Do i keep Savage Roar buff up in PvP?
Depending on how much health the target has, SR is often the most useful way to spend your combat points. If the player is below 50%, spend those points on SR. The player doesn't usually live long enough for Rip to run its full course and Bite is typically overkill. If they player is above 50%, use those points on Maim every chance you get. Immobilizing the enemy is way more useful than high powered hits.

I know you were talking about BG here, but for arena you can't keep Savage Roar up, even if you would like to.
Rip > Maim > Savage Roar > Ferocious Bite for combo points spendage. Rip is your biggest damage source out of all abilities. Use Ferocious Bite on targets with less then 30% hp only, 4 CP or even 3 CP can do the job sometimes but usually you would like to keep Rip up or use a Maim.

Do i use Rake in PvP?
Against vehicles definitely, against players you might be better off with shred or claw. The exception to this is that it can be quite useful on healers since the periodic will slow down their casts.

Rake is, just like Rip, one of those abilities you want to be active 24/7...This non-combo point ability usually deals 900-1100 damage PER TICK, gets more with mangle active and depends on how much resi the enemy has.

Rake against vehicles? The bleed effect doesn't even have any effect on the vehicles. You get 500-900 damage for you 35 thrown away energy, nothing more...

Again..claw..?

Also, do you mean Rake actually slows down casting speed..? Feral Druids got nothing at all to slow enemy casting speed, so it sure aint a typo.

Do i use Rip or Ferocious Bite or Maim in PvP? See above

Idd, see above. Still Rip > Maim > Savage Roar > Ferocious Bite on how to spend your CP's. For BG I can understand that you want to use Ferocious Bite > Rip but even then, in most cases, you should prefer Rip.

Should i open with Pounce or Ravage? Pounce against players and trash, Ravage against vehicles and bosses (they're immune to pounce's stun).

Truth. Duh...

[I]Is it common to Shapeshift to Bear form to perform Bash or Charge in order to gain an advantage in PvP? Or is it no longer practical to do that?[i]
Cat Feral Charge > Bear Feral Charge. There's no energy loss, only uses one GCD, and puts you behind the target.

FC-Cat isn't always > FC-Bear. Versus healers/casters, you'd definitely want to use FC-Bear because of it's interrupt/immobilize and it also silences the target for 4 sec. Also half the cooldown of FC-Cat and it's a shared cd so....It also doesn't take any rage normally (well, it does. But it's mostly used instantly when you shapeshift in bear, so you get the rage for free)

Also a great combo is Bear --> FC-Bear --> Bash --> Cat --> Shred.

Versus Melee, on the other hand...you would sometimes prefer FC-Cat > FC-Bear, but still not always. One example in which situation you would like to use FC-Bear on melee is if you want to do the above given combo, or when you want to FC-Bear him, bash, cyclone, heal or so...

Mostly FC-Cat doesn't really work out well when out of stealth, it gets you closer to the target, and even in his back, but most of the times you can't even get a Shred of then still, the enemy will probably have turned his back the other way.

FC-Cat is mostly usefull for situations where a Pala or DK puts up his aoe spell ( Consecration and ??? Forget it's name). You can FC-Cat right into the aoe and pounce spam him while in the air, you will fire of a pounce before you get hit by the aoe so it won't break your stealth.

Overall...FC-Bear > FC-Cat

Is Swipe a good AoE ability, or is it better for me to perform the ussual Single target DPS rotation and ignore the adds? How many Mobs need to be in the Swipe AoE in order for Swipe to do better damage then Single target DPS rotation? Im asking this primarily for Heroics for Emblem collecting..
Same rules as with any AoE. If you're only looking at two targets it's generally not worth it to AoE. Even three targets can be sketchy. Four targets, definitely use swipe.

You're right there. Better keep it at PvE since you seem to know more about that part :P


At last, my criticism might look harsh, but it's all meant constructive for you aswell as the OP.

[Khraeme]

You sure? Take a good look at the feral tree one more time if you are not so familiar with it. You'd rather take 10% armor or slightly better fero bite than stronger stealth? May I laugh at you straight on your face

stealth is big part of druid openers. even in BGs u wanna be stealth, if not, roll a mage or something....fero bite isnt used much for pvp, unless u have <5000 hp and 5 CP, other wise use rip, its a continuous bleed dmg thats should help u kill faster then a 5k FB when the player has 15k hp left and gets a big heal off

[crayven]

You sure? Take a good look at the feral tree one more time if you are not so familiar with it. You'd rather take 10% armor or slightly better fero bite than stronger stealth? May I laugh at you straight on your face

May i'd laugh at YOU?
U can keep your xtra stealth in BGs ( he is talking about BGs not ARENA btw ) and i'll stick with my extra dmg on ferocious bite AND better demo if i get a lot of players on me.

[Chiper]

For some reason I was thinking mangle had a cooldown in kitty, obviously I was wrong. Guess I'll be using it more now.

I also wasn't aware that vehicles couldn't bleed, just thought dots were dots. I'll have to switch that up.

Thanks for correcting my ills.

Like I said, I don't do arenas. I can see why rip would be more useful in a situation where there's only a few people hitting on a target and the fight can last a while. In Wintergrasp and BGs it's rare that an enemy player lives long enough for a dot/bleed to work. At least, as long as you work in a group that's the case.

I prefer cat charge over bear charge because switching to bear eats up a GCD. In WG battles, there's not usually enough time to spare that 1.5 seconds.

The slowdown I was speaking of is casting delays, but now that I think about it post 3.0 your white damage would eat up that delay anyway.

It was friday, I was at work and tired. Sorry for the misinformation.

[Renamefailed]

shapeshifting doesn't create a GCD

[Chiper]

shapeshifting doesn't create a GCD

Yes it does, I just tested it. Shifting from cat to bear caused a GCD, went the other way as well.

[Shinshiva]

May i'd laugh at YOU?
U can keep your xtra stealth in BGs ( he is talking about BGs not ARENA btw ) and i'll stick with my extra dmg on ferocious bite AND better demo if i get a lot of players on me.

BG's?

I'd stay stealthed and not get myself into a situation where I would need to use Demo Roar. And wasting all the energy on FB in a BG????? No thanks, I want to be able to maim and stop them from casting! FB takes off an extra 30 energy on top of what you are already wasting, maim may do less damage, but it means they do NO damage to you. Which also, negate Demo Roar.

Besides the extra stealth means i can get closer to capturing a node, I can't demo roar my way closer, and if i'm trying to FB my way closer then I'm doing it wrong.

I laugh in your face as well.

[barrsftw]

May i'd laugh at YOU?
U can keep your xtra stealth in BGs ( he is talking about BGs not ARENA btw ) and i'll stick with my extra dmg on ferocious bite AND better demo if i get a lot of players on me.

^^ was the one who earlier said those 3 pts in feral instinct would be better used on ms or primal percision... now he claims he was putting them into imp demo/fb ROFL. youve obviously never PvPed in your life.....

anyway on the topic of Feral instinct, does 1 pt in that talent give you the same stealth as 3? bc it doesnt say that it improves per level...

[getefix]

anyway on the topic of Feral instinct, does 1 pt in that talent give you the same stealth as 3? bc it doesnt say that it improves per level...

It does improve per point. It's the same as Master of Deception talent for Rogues.