PTR Hammer of Justice issue

[Frozenhour]

i laughed more at the fact you where full pvp and expect to put out anysort of pressure as a pally =)
tier peices and furious off peices ftw

thats cuz resi is kinda good stat in PTR, i take alot less dmg from rogues

[Judicium]

i laughed more at the fact you where full pvp and expect to put out anysort of pressure as a pally =)
tier peices and furious off peices ftw

Have fun dieing in 3's.

[Frozenhour]

Have fun dieing in 3's.

/sign

[Vice]

Frozenhour, you endorsing a payout of yourself is possibly THE FUNNIEST thing i have ever seen on mmo... i laughed for like a minute
*tips hat*

[Raiss]

Hi, I have 200 hit rating in my PvP gear, I use 0 hit gems. I never miss one of my abilities.

Don't critwhore.

^

I'm a healer and I'm almost hit caped for arenas.

[Mysmere]

2-3 pc pvp set is fine for 3's.

also there is ring, neck, cloak, 1-2 tier pieces in 3's. thats enough hit.

[samuraibane]

well it seems like paladins dont get that much hit from pvp gear, my current hit raiting is 50 with icewalker and pvp ring

This is a clear "Learn to gear" issue.

The cloak you likely wear: http://thottbot.com/i42067
The cloak you SHOULD be wearing: http://thottbot.com/i42068

The neck you likely wear: http://thottbot.com/i42027
The neck you SHOULD be wearing: http://thottbot.com/i42028

These items are bought from the same vendor, for the same amount of honor. These 2 items are also nearly HALF the hit you need to reach 5%. If you only bought items using honor, and you have a full set of them, and the Deadly Ring http://thottbot.com/i42115 added another 1.2%... you would be at 3.6% hit rating from just the 3 honor bought items.

You use those 3 items, and either a 2 hander with alot of hit (HELLO Titansteel and Argent Tourney 2 handers!) you should be right about the hit cap. No Wintergrasp gear needed. You just bought the wrong shit.

Additionally... you DO know alot of the Wintergrasp gear is itemlevel 213, and the honor bought stuff is 200? You should likely rethink the whole "I don't wear wintergrasp gear" mentality, because in several class' cases, it is noticeably better than the honor bought gear.

As a Ret Pally, you should almost never need to gem or enchant for hit rating in PVE or PVP. You should also never need to LOOK for crit. For PVE it's all about Hit til cap, then Strength. For PVP it's Hit til cap, then Resilience and Strength, basically as much of both as you can possibly get, and the Stamina will come with the gear and the meta-activating/socket-bonus-catching Resil/Sta gems.

There is just not a good reason, especially with 3.2 looming up on us, to wear PVE gear into PVP unless it is simply to last you UNTIL you have entry level PVP gear. And with 3.2... that may be questionable thinking, as the craft-created stuff has a fair amount of resilience on it.

I'd say you really need to rethink your gear from the ground up. You did something wrong.

[Mysmere]

This is a clear "Learn to gear" issue.

The cloak you likely wear: http://thottbot.com/i42067
The cloak you SHOULD be wearing: http://thottbot.com/i42068

The neck you likely wear: http://thottbot.com/i42027
The neck you SHOULD be wearing: http://thottbot.com/i42028

These items are bought from the same vendor, for the same amount of honor. These 2 items are also nearly HALF the hit you need to reach 5%. If you only bought items using honor, and you have a full set of them, and the Deadly Ring http://thottbot.com/i42115 added another 1.2%... you would be at 3.6% hit rating from just the 3 honor bought items.

You use those 3 items, and either a 2 hander with alot of hit (HELLO Titansteel and Argent Tourney 2 handers!) you should be right about the hit cap. No Wintergrasp gear needed. You just bought the wrong shit.

Additionally... you DO know alot of the Wintergrasp gear is itemlevel 213, and the honor bought stuff is 200? You should likely rethink the whole "I don't wear wintergrasp gear" mentality, because in several class' cases, it is noticeably better than the honor bought gear.

As a Ret Pally, you should almost never need to gem or enchant for hit rating in PVE or PVP. You should also never need to LOOK for crit. For PVE it's all about Hit til cap, then Strength. For PVP it's Hit til cap, then Resilience and Strength, basically as much of both as you can possibly get, and the Stamina will come with the gear and the meta-activating/socket-bonus-catching Resil/Sta gems.

There is just not a good reason, especially with 3.2 looming up on us, to wear PVE gear into PVP unless it is simply to last you UNTIL you have entry level PVP gear. And with 3.2... that may be questionable thinking, as the craft-created stuff has a fair amount of resilience on it.

I'd say you really need to rethink your gear from the ground up. You did something wrong.

for pvp its about:
if you have absolutely no hit, then gem for it.
if you have 4-5%, dont gem for it.
end result goal for pvp hit is around 6%, a little extra to cancel out some talents (yes, they fixed the bug where you couldn't stack hit to get around talents)

if you're not gemming for hit, then you should be gemming for str (if its red) or str+stam/crit (if its blue/yellow respectively) to achieve every set bonus (unless its haste)
in pvp, every single stat counts. a lot of people gem for pure str for pvp, which is a bad habit.

also, there are 2 ways at looking at 3.2:
you can stack resil to max out surv, or you can drop some resil to obtain the same effect as pre 3.2

[samuraibane]

for pvp its about:
if you have absolutely no hit, then gem for it.
if you have 4-5%, dont gem for it.
end result goal for pvp hit is around 6%, a little extra to cancel out some talents (yes, they fixed the bug where you couldn't stack hit to get around talents)

if you're not gemming for hit, then you should be gemming for str (if its red) or str+stam/crit (if its blue/yellow respectively) to achieve every set bonus (unless its haste)
in pvp, every single stat counts. a lot of people gem for pure str for pvp, which is a bad habit.

also, there are 2 ways at looking at 3.2:
you can stack resil to max out surv, or you can drop some resil to obtain the same effect as pre 3.2

I am going to have to completely disagree with alot of this.

If you do not have 5%+ hitrating as a Ret Pally in PVP, you are doing it wrong.
If you are wearing PVE gear into Arena post 3.2 as a Ret Pally (and any other class) you are doing it wrong.

Judgement is a Ret Paladin's primary mana return mechanic. It operates off the Melee Hit Table so that once a Ret Paladin is hitcapped for the content Judgements will not miss. It's not just about Hammer of Justice, it's about sustaining your damage output. As a Melee DPS build, that is the majority of your job in the Arena. Missing a Judgement after a mana burn when Divine Plea is on cooldown or has just been dispelled (and is on cooldown) can be the deciding factor in a close matchup. If you are not at a MINIMUM of 5% hitrating in PVP gear, you are a bad Ret Paladin.

If you are in PVP gear and you find yourself needing to use ANY +Hit gems or enchants at all, you have shortchanged yourself somewhere really badly. You are not in the right gear. You have made an error. You should correct the error.

As far as your "Two Ways to look at Resilience in 3.2"... NO. Just no.
If you drop resilience "to obtain the same effect as pre 3.2" you will quickly find that you are losing much easier than you were pre 3.2. And it's for the same reason that Eye for an Eye and Crit are not good things for a Ret Paladin in PVP.

The purpose of Resilience thus far has been to reduce the amount of critical hits you take, and how much they deal when they land. As a PVP geared Paladin, you wanted to stack Resilience, reducing the amount of crits you take, and the amount of damage they dealt. This makes Eye for an Eye far less effective because you have built gear to PREVENT it from being useful. So has everyone else. If someone has 245 resilience in their gear, they negate 3% of your critical strike chance. In a world where 800 resilience is ENTRY level to high-end combat, consider how much of your crit is totally negated.

For every point of Crit you have on gems you have Crit that is either wasted because their resilience cancels it, or you have Crit that might get through on a very RNG unpredictable basis. Until 3.2, if you take raw Strength instead, you will deliver consistent damage no matter how much Resilience they have stacked, becuase it only effects critical damage and DoTs.

Post 3.2 I am not sure how well raw Strength will continue to stack against Resilience as I am only starting to test my armor sets on the PTR. But I am *POSITIVE* that any advice given to anyone that says "drop some resilience" in any form is really HORRIBLE advice for Arena of any kind. It is an important stat now, and much more important in 3.2 than it is already.



TLR
Do not ever drop resilience.
Get to 5%+ hit rating for PVP.
Remember that Strength scales better than raw AP for Retribution Paladins, and some crit is negated by resilience. Currently NO Strength is negated Resilience.
If you are having to gem or enchant to get to 5%+ hit rating, you should look for other gear options. You have choices, and some will be better than others.
PVE gear in PVP is not so good for Retribution paladins now. In 3.2 it could be likened to suicidal emo-rage. Use Resilience. Everyone you try to kill will be using it too.

[Mysmere]

If you do not have 5%+ hitrating as a Ret Pally in PVP, you are doing it wrong.

yes

If you are wearing PVE gear into Arena post 3.2 as a Ret Pally (and any other class) you are doing it wrong.

no

Judgement is a Ret Paladin's primary mana return mechanic. It operates off the Melee Hit Table so that once a Ret Paladin is hitcapped for the content Judgements will not miss. It's not just about Hammer of Justice, it's about sustaining your damage output. As a Melee DPS build, that is the majority of your job in the Arena. Missing a Judgement after a mana burn when Divine Plea is on cooldown or has just been dispelled (and is on cooldown) can be the deciding factor in a close matchup. If you are not at a MINIMUM of 5% hitrating in PVP gear, you are a bad Ret Paladin.

no one mana burns a ret pally in 3's, and if they try in 2's, then youve already wasted too many judges on a shield, and its your own fault.

If you are in PVP gear and you find yourself needing to use ANY +Hit gems or enchants at all, you have shortchanged yourself somewhere really badly. You are not in the right gear. You have made an error. You should correct the error.

yes

As far as your "Two Ways to look at Resilience in 3.2"... NO. Just no.
If you drop resilience "to obtain the same effect as pre 3.2" you will quickly find that you are losing much easier than you were pre 3.2.

no. reducing your survival stats to the same as 3.2 and boosting your dps stats to similar or the same, is the exact same as pre 3.2.

And it's for the same reason that Eye for an Eye and Crit are not good things for a Ret Paladin in PVP.

The purpose of Resilience thus far has been to reduce the amount of critical hits you take, and how much they deal when they land. As a PVP geared Paladin, you wanted to stack Resilience, reducing the amount of crits you take, and the amount of damage they dealt. This makes Eye for an Eye far less effective because you have built gear to PREVENT it from being useful. So has everyone else. If someone has 245 resilience in their gear, they negate 3% of your critical strike chance. In a world where 800 resilience is ENTRY level to high-end combat, consider how much of your crit is totally negated.

For every point of Crit you have on gems you have Crit that is either wasted because their resilience cancels it, or you have Crit that might get through on a very RNG unpredictable basis. Until 3.2, if you take raw Strength instead, you will deliver consistent damage no matter how much Resilience they have stacked, becuase it only effects critical damage and DoTs.

no, god no. eye for an eye was bad because half to 2/3 of the time (depending on bracket) you were not the target. now its bad because its a shitty 10%
e4e can proc off HITS that wouldve been crits but weren't due to resil which means, yes, resil makes it a worse talent, but not by too much.

i can honestly say 800 resil is the amount a ret pally should ever peak at, atm

if you have no crit, theyre never going to die. like it or not crit is integral to killing anyone. stacking str on pvp gear is just a plain stupid idea, because unlike pve where you can get away with screwing over bonuses, every single stat counts.


feel free to min/max your pve and pvp gear as you want but there is no way you should be in full pvp gear

[Varmin]

Wearing full pvp gear hasn't been good since s1.

[Verteidiger]

noobs!

[Warthor]

well it seems like paladins dont get that much hit from pvp gear, my current hit raiting is 50 with icewalker and pvp ring

no one gets you idiot... you need to gear for it from pvp honor items...


are all rets retarded?

[Adamson]

no one gets you idiot... you need to gear for it from pvp honor items...


are all rets retarded?

Or wear some PvE pieces for Christ's sake.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

People too easily shortchange crit in arena because it's more heavily punished than other stats.

Without it, you will never do enough damage to kill someone while a healer's around. Period.

Without it, you'll never get AoW procs, which means no instant flash, and no exorcism(In 3.2), which even further cripples your ability to kill someone, or even defend yourself, for that matter.

5% hit in PvP gear is a goal to set for yourself, after that, try to get an even blend of stats, Strength, Stamina, Resilience, and Crit are all quite important. Tunnel-vision on any one stat will make your life harder, stop pretending it makes you smarter to focus on any one.

EDIT: And what in the world is wrong with gemming/enchanting hit on your gear, if you have the crit gear instead?

If your stats wind up identical in the end, it makes no difference. A yellow gem is either going to be crit, resilience, or hit, there's no magical advantage to the hit being in one place rather than another.

[Frozenhour]

no one gets you idiot... you need to gear for it from pvp honor items...


are all rets retarded?

do u got nothing else to do, but troll in paladins (or other classes that u lose to) forums and qq to about them?

[Lightstrike]

Looks to me the idiot at the start is a huntard not a DK..

And a huntard calling a paladin faceroll is just lol.

[Adamson]

Looks to me the idiot at the start is a huntard not a DK..

And a huntard calling a paladin faceroll is just lol.

It's a video game. If you ask me calling anyone a faceroller is just Lol

[notintheface]

Rofl, he can't figure out which class I play.

Hur Dur.

[coldfiredragon]

are all rets retarded?

No just about 85% of them.

Also the amount of hit you want depends a lot on what your doing PvP wise, if your just doing BGs some WG or running around the world looking for HKs its not so critical, no ratings depend on it, it will not make or break what you do.

If your doing arena then please for godsake get some hit. As some one pointed out about 200 is a good hit for PvP which is not hard to get.