so i noticed something a little offputting

[bowflexinbrah]

while leveling my lvl 70 rogue i realised that it hits with its BoA daggers and 1.4k attack power, as hard as my feral druid does with its 8k attack power :| they both have .9 speed (when rogue has SnD) but the rogue also has a .7 sec attack from its offhand

is this supposed to happen?

should kitties be able to attack with both paws?

[Akkarin]

Not sure what you're saying here dude.

Your lvl70 rogue hits as hard as your lvl80 feral druid in cat form? Are you talking about damage, or speed of attacks?

Afaik, cats do attack with both paws.

[bowflexinbrah]

Not sure what you're saying here dude.

Your lvl70 rogue hits as hard as your lvl80 feral druid in cat form? Are you talking about damage, or speed of attacks?

Afaik, cats do attack with both paws.

im talking both damage and speed, my rogue does 500 every .9 secs with mainhand, and cat does 500 every .9 secs... seems kind of unbalanced.
what would it be like if druids had 2 1 sec speed attack one for each paw. as if they were dual wielding. instea dof just an animation of the switching paws every time they attack.

[Mithran]

Keep in mind that Feral Kitty Druids normally end up with HUGE amounts of AP and crit when they are well geared and specced.

[Pascal]

No offense, but you're ignoring the big picture.

White damage is a large portion of rogue damage. They have to gear for mounds of hit for it because their specials don't do enough to compensate, but they get a lot of procs and benefits from hitting with their white damage.

The only thing white does for feral is proc OoC, and ferals don't rely on their white damage. That's why it's lower - their specials compensate for their white damage being low.

[Muezick]

No offense, but you're ignoring the big picture.

White damage is a large portion of rogue damage. They have to gear for mounds of hit for it because their specials don't do enough to compensate, but they get a lot of procs and benefits from hitting with their white damage.

The only thing white does for feral is proc OoC, and ferals don't rely on their white damage. That's why it's lower - their specials compensate for their white damage being low.

I think that this is true.

The classes are extremely similar, but the way they function is very different

[Alski]

Classes are designed different. Rogues have a much higher % of white damage(as their overall damage) than a kitty does. To put it this way does your rogue do 10-15k special attacks? straight answer is no.

[Thes]

Classes are designed different. Rogues have a much higher % of white damage(as their overall damage) than a kitty does. To put it this way does your rogue do 10-15k special attacks? straight answer is no.

I do 15k envenoms..

[Agroculture]

No offense, but you're ignoring the big picture.

White damage is a large portion of rogue damage. They have to gear for mounds of hit for it because their specials don't do enough to compensate, but they get a lot of procs and benefits from hitting with their white damage.

The only thing white does for feral is proc OoC, and ferals don't rely on their white damage. That's why it's lower - their specials compensate for their white damage being low.

That may have been true in TBC,but in Wrath hit is not the best scaling stat for any rogue (not even combat)....so no,rogues don't gear for mounds of hit if they can help it.

That being said,cat white damage has always been pathetic (on a hit per hit basis),which is why cats get such inhuman modifiers on their specials.So OP don't worry about it,the damage is balanced overall.

[bowflexinbrah]

yea i understand what you guys are saying. i think i just like a constant stream of strong white hits more than big yellow hits in my melee chars

[arel00]

yea i understand what you guys are saying. i think i just like a constant stream of strong white hits more than big yellow hits in my melee chars

Then druid is the wrong choice for you, since it's ALL about yellow numbers.

By the way...

I do 15k envenoms..

You don't mutilate for 12k tho. I Shred for that number.

[Ferter]

I do not know about you guys, but whites hits are still a large part of my kitty dps.

From recount its something like
27.5% melee
27.5% Shred
25% Rip
Rake (Dot and Initial) 15
5% FB

Recalling from memory of course.

White hits can crit as high as 2.2k

7K AP self buffed, about 150 ArPen 45% crit
hit and Expertise capped or very very close.

[YigiBareTank]

I do not know about you guys, but whites hits are still a large part of my kitty dps.

From recount its something like
27.5% melee
27.5% Shred
25% Rip
Rake (Dot and Initial) 15
5% FB

Recalling from memory of course.

White hits can crit as high as 2.2k

7K AP self buffed, about 150 ArPen 45% crit
hit and Expertise capped or very very close.

This sounds about right, but iirc rogues are more like 40-50% melee dmg. That's a pretty large difference (correct me if i'm wrong here).

[masterprtzl]

That may have been true in TBC,but in Wrath hit is not the best scaling stat for any rogue (not even combat)....so no,rogues don't gear for mounds of hit if they can help it.

That being said,cat white damage has always been pathetic (on a hit per hit basis),which is why cats get such inhuman modifiers on their specials.So OP don't worry about it,the damage is balanced overall.

ehh??? hit is extremely important- you never just soft cap as a rogue. combat, off hand hits = more energy = more sinister strikes = keeping your rotation going.

hit is extremely important, aim for 350-400 as a rogue.
Cats need nothing near that.

[Alski]

I do 15k envenoms..

but your rogue isnt lvl 70 is it.

[DrJones]

ehh??? hit is extremely important- you never just soft cap as a rogue. combat, off hand hits = more energy = more sinister strikes = keeping your rotation going.

hit is extremely important, aim for 350-400 as a rogue.
Cats need nothing near that.

Hit is only a really important stat till reaching the style cap and still a important stat till you get to the poisoncap, but after that, no hit isn't that good im comparison to other stats. So unless you are a mut rogue without a shadow priest or boomkin in your raid you shouldn't aim for 400 hit, but only a bit more than 300, which you will get whether you want it or not (or more) in most cases (assuming raiding gear).

Looking at the dmg of kittys and rogues now you can't really ask for both paws hitting, since they are pretty equal, with druids getting nerfed in the next patch. So unless you want to hit with both paws for half the damage (or even less due to OoC procs) this isn't a really good idea in the end.
And to repeat what was said before: Both classes (or rather spec vs class whatever you prefer) seem similar but stil work different.

[Drooid]

I do not know about you guys, but whites hits are still a large part of my kitty dps.

From recount its something like
27.5% melee
27.5% Shred
25% Rip
Rake (Dot and Initial) 15
5% FB

Recalling from memory of course.

White hits can crit as high as 2.2k

7K AP self buffed, about 150 ArPen 45% crit
hit and Expertise capped or very very close.

This is different from mine and I'm at 7k+ atkpwr [too lazy to login and check but around 7.3k I believe].
140 ArP. 54% crit. Expertise capped, but low hit [bout 150 wtb hit trinket but w/e]

And mine is usually about

Rip 32%
Shred 28%
Melee 25%
Rake 10%
FB 5%

[baseball]

Numbers seem right.

Based on a Vezax 10 kill where, because DKs are stupid good tanks, I kitty dps, you have:

Cat:
Rip: 26%
swing: 25%
shred: 24%
rake: 14%


Same fight, rogue numbers:
Swing 41 %
Sinister Strike 27 %
Instant Poison IX 12 %
Deadly Poison IX 8 %
Rupture 7 %
Envenom 3 %
Killing Spree 3 %

[Paskgotsheal]

Numbers seem right.

Based on a Vezax 10 kill where, because DKs are stupid good tanks, I kitty dps, you have:

Cat:
Rip: 26%
swing: 25%
shred: 24%
rake: 14%


Same fight, rogue numbers:
Swing 41 %
Sinister Strike 27 %
Instant Poison IX 12 %
Deadly Poison IX 8 %
Rupture 7 %
Envenom 3 %
Killing Spree 3 %

Not a good fight to do comparison of white hits on.... 20% reduced attack speed ftl

[Syrek]

This is a rather pointless discussion by now.

One of the first posters was right. Cat specials do way more damage. Rogues are DPSing through autoattacks mainly, with weaker hitting specials mixed in.

It evens out to about the same DPS in the end.


On another note, this is the cause for Cats having a DPS rotation that is highly based on player skill, while the largest part of Rogue DPS occurs automatically.