arena theory 2v2 3v3

[kainron]

inc wall of text!!!

alright so we can agree that 2v2 was dominated this season by ms/heal teams.
granted with twos if you have a good strategy you could disrupt a team. but some teams just feel strong.

every class has its strengths and weaknesses. defensive cooldowns offensive cooldowns. some classes have alot some have 1 or 2. for instance, warlocks defensive cd healthstone demonportal dealthcoil and void sac.
seems like a lot but compare it to a rogue mage or hunter its about a fraction.

moving on

first i have to list the different players in an arena game.

1ms=rogue, warrior hunter
2burst=ret, dk, feral elesham
3heal=priest, prolly resto = prot and holly pally and both types of resto classes
4spamcc= mage, lock, boom,

granted:
several classes some sort of crowd control but each class brings its own personal strength.
several classes have side heals
several classes have burst

ok so we have the players time for the strats.

with these four players we can say that
there is the potential to have up to
six teams without any double cc or double heal or double ms or double burst.
we have
ms/burst,
ms/heal,
ms/cc
heal/cc,
heal/burst,
burst/cc
given that this is a very simplistic model for 2v2 can you see where there is a spot for class, and multiple cc's?

with the 3.2 patch making 2v2 nothing more than gladiator mount and point farming, we will probably see a migration to 3v3. since its easier to get three people together than five.

with 3v3 we get to increase the diversity of our team.

i believe 3v3 will become dominated by either
healer/ms/cc or healer/burst/cc

the thing about these two teams is a rogue can fit in both of them. cause lets face it, rogue damage is no where near warrior damage. but lets not get into the pure vs hybrid debate. that should have no bearing in pvp.

so in 3v3 possible competitive teams should be any as follows:
healer/burst/cc
healer/ms/cc
cc/burst/ms
ms/burst/heal

now we have the teams lets look at the players.
this is purely my opinion
best ms
class imo is rogue followed behind by a bm hunter.
reason= rogue has lots of defensive cooldowns good constant damage opener and easy to play
bm hunter= unccable during wrath is mainly on the team for the ms and added damage.
burst
honestly this is a three way draw between ferals rets and dks. each has its benefits can all be interchangable
cc
toss up between a mage and a lock. mages bring food and burst with lots of defensive cooldowns locks can cc more than one target at a time and bring healthstones. personally if you want a cc pick the better player between the two
heals
currently i believe resto druids are the optimum pvp healer. can hot multiple targets good defenses very hard to interrupt can switch forms to avoid burns and they bring good cc. ive seen priests get nuked in two globals ive seen pallies locked out or stunlocked to death. i have never seen a treeform druid rolling hots die in two globals
and if they can los never seen them get oomed.

so for threes i believe the dream team for next season will be made up of a rogue a healer and a mage. but a strong counter comp to this dream team will be surv hunt ret pally resto druid.
why?= druids cant be poly'd counterspell is moot so heals will only have to trinket the blind
ret pally burst with a hunter ms repentance intimidate stun on priest will see the rogue or mage dead or lacking defensive cooldowns. when ms is back up a hard switch to the priest will end up in a kill.

ret pallies cant be polly'd due to hand of sac on hunter or divine sac and bubble.

please feel free to leave your opinions or any supplementary information.

[furium]

1ms=rogue, warrior
2burst=ret, dk, feral
3heal=priest, prolly resto
4spamcc= mage, lock, boom,

Forgot: Hunter, Shaman, Druid, Holy Pally

so for threes i believe the dream team for next season will be made up of a rogue a healer and a mage. but a strong counter comp to this dream team will be surv hunt ret pally resto druid.
why?= druids cant be poly'd counterspell is moot so heals will only have to trinket the blind
ret pally burst with a hunter ms repentance intimidate stun on priest will see the rogue or mage dead or lacking defensive cooldowns. when ms is back up a hard switch to the priest will end up in a kill.
ret pallies cant be polly'd due to hand of sac on hunter or divine sac and bubble.

RMP, no surprise here, it has always been a strong comp, and i believe you ment BM hunter, because Survival hunters don't have intimidate, Blessing of sac and divine sac will keep you out of CC for the first...30 seconds of a game? After that, pallies are very susceptible to CC and with no cleanse for sheep, he will probably be stuck in quite a few full duration sheeps.

IMO BM/DK/Pally was very strong against RMP at MLG, maybe if it was a Druid healer it could have worked better, im not sure.


Not really sure what else to say about this thread.

[khlg]

first i have to list the different players in an arena game.

1ms=rogue, warrior
2burst=ret, dk, feral
3heal=priest, prolly resto
4spamcc= mage, lock, boom,

you left out alot classes

ms= you put rogue/warrior you left out hunter
burst= ele shammy/arcane mage have high burst awell
heal= shammy can heal
spamcc= rogue can spam sap till target becomes immune like other classes you listed

[TiBuRoN]

you don't play much arena, do you?
in your list, you forgot counter cc. Ret isn't THE burst class any more, they cannot burst something down in a stun every 40 seconds...
a well played feral drood in 3on3 will crash ever RMP. cyclone the mage if burst incs. slow-remove on himself, so he can force many def.cds on the mage and his burst vs rogue must hurts.
but if u take a DK in a team, the feral will be in bear all the time...

so don't see it that simpel, its a bit harder...

[kainron]

you left out alot classes

ms= you put rogue/warrior you left out hunter
burst= ele shammy/arcane mage have high burst awell
heal= shammy can heal
spamcc= rogue can spam sap till target becomes immune like other classes you listed

resto is reffering to both shamans and druids ill add in the ele sham but any spec mage is still a cc class

[kainron]

Forgot: Hunter, Shaman, Druid, Holy Pally

only class i missed was hunter
a prolly is a prot/holy pally
and resto takes place for both resto druids and resto shamans

[kainron]

you don't play much arena, do you?
in your list, you forgot counter cc. Ret isn't THE burst class any more, they cannot burst something down in a stun every 40 seconds...
a well played feral drood in 3on3 will crash ever RMP. cyclone the mage if burst incs. slow-remove on himself, so he can force many def.cds on the mage and his burst vs rogue must hurts.
but if u take a DK in a team, the feral will be in bear all the time...

so don't see it that simpel, its a bit harder...

on the contrary i play alot of arena.

and personally if you dont get a kill in 40 seconds with beastial / hand of sac divine sac both your hunter and ret fail.

as i said in my original post this is a simplistic model that can be used to make several different kind of comps.

in my original post i stated that several classes have multiple benefits and some forms of cc. but if you consider spam sapping in arena beneficial instead of one sap and ms plus burst, i hope your not a rogue.

[Nømeansnø]

That took a long time to point out the PMR is strong, and some classes can counter a priest, mage or rogue.

[kainron]

That took a long time to point out the PMR is strong, and some classes can counter a priest, mage or rogue.

true but it does give reasoning to why pmr is strong. so with that reasoning you can find a solid way to beat it

beastialwrath devine sac and instagib the rogue. no ms ends up being a 3v2 healer/bmhunt/ret against a mage/priest. i like those odds

[BrontoÐ]

The fact that no one even mentioned shadow priests hurts my heart, it is my 2v2 partner after all!

[Ektoplasme]

alright so we can agree that 2v2 was dominated this season by ms/heal teams.

Alright, if you base your wall of text on a wrong assumption you won't go far.

May I point you to http://www.arenajunkies.com/rankings/2v2/

You will see that about 20% of the top teams have a MS. The others have a ret paladin, a DK etc. So you can barely say that 2v2 was dominated by ms/heal.

[kainron]

The fact that no one even mentioned shadow priests hurts my heart, it is my 2v2 partner after all!

shadow priests in my eyes fall in the same category as protection warriors and enhancement shamans....
with a rogue there damage and fears might be able to work well but its damage cant really be considered burst.

[kainron]

bump

[kainron]

bump

[kainron]

i feel more people should read this as it does answer alot of questions about what do i add to my 2v2 team to get a viable 3v3 team.

so ima bump it yet again!

[Morwrath]

Not really what the thread is about, but close enough. 3.2 puts alot more focus on 3v3 anyone have what they think will be a winning setup in 3v3 next season...post 3.2. My bet is Aff.Lock/SV.Hunt/R.Sham or D.Priest as some of the best setups next season.

[Powell]

alright so we can agree that 2v2 was dominated this season by ms/heal teams.

you sir, are wrong
Dks are higher in the 2v2 arena ladder then warriors/rogues/hunters, and paladins are almost at the same lvl.

i can agree that MS has a advantage in arena, but they were/are not dominating anything in 2v2.

hunter -> MS, lowest ranked class in the ladder...
warriors are 5th and rogues are 6th

[kainron]

last time i checked theres a 2882 priest rogue which qualifies as an ms/heal

[Powell]

last time i checked theres a 2882 priest rogue which qualifies as an ms/heal

yes because arena is balanced around 1 team right?

[kainron]

id say that team is dominating and is staying that high for a reason. sure skill is involved but there is something to say about team synergy