Holy Paladins time for change?

[Tostibakker]

Before wotlk started Blizzard said they wanted to give Holy Paladins a new healing mechanic, however it is still mostly about HL and FoL. In the next patch they are nerfing Illumination which means you can no longer spam HL, instead we would have to settle with FoL and the HoT that it leaves on a target with Sacred Shield. I don't really think it is effective at all... Also Blizzard said they wanted to give paladins more raid healing utility (Beacon change), however raid healing with FoL is pretty bad and boring aswell.

I made a wartool talent tree with some ideas for talents, I will give an explanation below about the new talents.

The link : http://www.war-tools.com/t64122.html

First off, because the healing output is larger with this talent tree, the mana cost of HL and FoL has to go up a little and the second row talent on the right might be a bit hard to read so you can read it down here. Also the numbers of the talents could be changed, it is just an example.

Spiritual Focus - 5 pts
Increased values to allow the use of Aura of Light in PvE. Concentration aura would still be needed in PvP, because of the interrupt and silence duration reduction.

Seals of the Pure - 5 pts
Seal of Light - While Seal of Light is active the amount healed by your healing spells is increased by 1/2/3/4/5 %.
Seal of Wisdom - While your Seal of Wisdom is active the mana cost of your spells is reduced with 1/2/3/4/5 %
Seal of Justice - Increases the duration of the stun by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 sec
Seal of Vengeance - Increases the periodic damage from Seal of Vengeance by 1/2/3/4/5 %
Seal of Command - Increases the damage caused by your Seal of Command by 1/2/3/4/5 %.

See it as a sort of Seal Mastery talent, makes the Holy Tree more attractive to other specs.

Judgements of the Pure - 1 pt - Requires Seals of the Pure 5/5

Seal of Light - When the effect of your Judgement of Light deminishes it will cause a Shower of Light. Shower of Light heals 150% of your spellpower to all targets within 10 yards over 12 sec, but increases the mana cost of your Judgement of Light spell by 500.

Seal of Wisdom - When you cast a Judgement of Wisdom while your Seal of Wisdom is active you instantly gain mana equal to your mana regeneration while casting, this effect can't occur more than every 30 seconds, in addition your party and raid members gain Replenishment

Seal of Justice - Your Judgement spells reduce your targets attack speed with 20% for 5 seconds

Seal of Vengeance - The periodic damage from your Seal of Vengeance will have a critical effect once on each target affected after you cast any Judgement.

Seal of Command - Your Judgement spell now also increases the damage of your next Crusader Strike by 5%.

This talent would be a sort of Judgement mastery, which also makes the Holy Tree more attractive to other specs, aswell as offer some choices when it comes to using a certain seal.

These were the big talents, at the next talents i will only give the talents name and a clarification.

Aura Mastery - 1 pt

This talent will now be more attractive for all specs, aswell as giving a holy paladin a chance to do some AoE healing every 3 minutes.

Aura of Light - 1 pt - Requires Aura Mastery

This talent will increase your healing done by 5% (formerly in the prot tree) and increase the healing taken by 5% of all targets affect (former effect from improved devotion aura, also from 6% to 5%). This will help our FoL to be stronger.

Puryifing Power - 3 pt

A buff to the holy tree to pvp, this will make paladins less likely to go prot healing.

Blessed Hands - 2 pt

A buff to the holy tree to pvp, this will make paladins less likely to go prot healing. Making the talent more attractive than before.

Light's Grace - 5 pt

This will remove our haste on demand, instead it will force us to use FoL more often and it would require more skill than before to keep the buff up.

Infusion of Light - 2 pt
No longer increases the critical strike chance on Holy Light, instead now increases our mana regeneration while casting by 50%. This will give us more reason to mix crit, mp5 and haste gear, just like Blizzard wants us to.

Enlightment - 2 pts

Does the same as the old Judgements of the Pure, but instead has the + 20 yd radius on beacon to make it 60 and increases the radius of Shower of Light to 40 yds.

Flashing Light - 2 pts - Requires Enlightment 2/2

This talent will give the HoT on a Sacred Shield target and has a 10% chance to leave the HoT if you cast it on someone without Sacred Shield. This will reduce the Survivability of Ret paladins in pvp (they would have the hot if it was still folded into the Sacred Shield spell) and will give us the chance to switch between off tanks and try to get the HoT up. Also makes FoL a little stronger, because it was too weak before.

Beacon of Light - 1 pt

Now is affected by all healing you cause, this way you could switch your FoL around to keep the HoT on the off tanks and have a fair amount of healing on the MT in comparison to the old HL spamming.

Some talents should perhaps be switched around or could use some changes, but I believe something like this would make Holy Paladins alot more fun and gives us more raid healing utility, aswell as increase the need of a healing rotation and more need to watch your cooldowns. The pvp effects would probably not be very strong, seeing as you would still get increased mana cost on your healing spells and you wouldnt use Aura of Light or Seal of Light in pvp probably, but anyways things could be changed and its only a list with ideas. So what do you think ?

[Deleted]

Only read the seal thing but it looks pretty nice, if everything is liek that one you got some good ideas...try to stay away from OP talents.

(oh noez nederlander! )

[Tostibakker]

I agree with you about staying away from the OP talents, this post is just meant to give a suggestion on a way to change the healing mechanic, some things could be left away or toned down.

[nwo]

I think that paladins need more than just the 12% bonus healing they get right now for FoL and HL... Every other class has more than one % increase bonus on at least one of their heals. Holy paladins should have more talents that benefit FoL/HL...

I checked out the talent tree you posted and it looks really nice. It would make healing as a holy pally a lot more interesting and a lot more fun, not to mention that it would boost our healing ability/efficiency by a lot.

[Tostibakker]

Nice to see that you agree with me.

[Tostibakker]

Would love to see some more replys regarding the healing mechanic of paladins and some opinions about the talent tree I made.

[Daedalon]

There was a time for a change - but that time has passed. The current changes are signs of the lazyness that Blizzard is showing in actually fixing the real issues the spec has.

They are not fixing - overheals
They are not fixing - lack of AOE healing
They are not fixing - the obvious signs the spec is not vialbe in more number than one per raid - and that means 1 holy pala per guild. Or 2... and they sit out half the time

But you know what... they ARE adding a HOT to the class that was SUPPOSED to play diffrently .... That hot is worth absolutly ZERO tho and should have better been skipped instead of destroying the "unique" part of the spec. Instead Blizzard desides to make it "unique" in the way that holy paladins have atm NEITHER the healing power to heal a single player NOR a group - cause their ability is balanced for healing two targets...

Ye right - No thx. See you guys later. Im waiting for the payed class transfer. Until then I have absolutly no intrest in sitting out every other raid because I play a class that is supposed to be "unique" while 4 healing priests get into every single raid. And neither do the good paladins that acutally try to maintain any sort of real life while playing. Cause its not normal to raid 5 days per week. And its not normal either to have to tweak your real life to when and IF you will be picked for half the raids that the guild needs a holy paladin.

As a former Guildleader - classleader and raidleader of 2 years doing all raiding content. Its a total disgrace to see how Blizzard is NOT fixing the real issues with the holy spec. Its something that I desided to simply not pay for when Sunwell hit and majority of holy paladins became worthless in 5 and 25 man content. The exact same thing is happening now. There is a new 5 man instance comming that will be healed by green dressed priests and druids -while holy palas T7-8 gear will struggle - not because they are not good enough... Just because they were not given any sort of tools to deal with the healing needed - SINCE THE ENCOUNTERS ARE ACTUALLY BALANCED FOR THE OTHER 3 HEALING CLASSES.

[Nangz]

Sorry but these changes wont fly

5% extra healing from what prot has now is a huge buff

also cant member the name but your aoe for healing 5%? imagie this

paladin getting 4 holy lights off on that duration
15k each cuz some for 20k some less

a full raid aoe 3k heal while not much would be an all aoe raid heal

only part of this post i like is the seals improvements but the talent after that is a bit op



And shower of light is insane

I have buddys with 2k spell power i got less so you want a hot that is aoe with a 100% uptime healing for 3k heal over 12 secs???? AND to hit the full raid again?

[fabian]

Infusion of Light - 2 pt
No longer increases the critical strike chance on Holy Light, instead now increases our mana regeneration while casting by 50%. This will give us more reason to mix crit, mp5 and haste gear, just like Blizzard wants us to.

Make it more like a Holy priest's Holy Concentration since your idea is promoting spirit instead of mp5. Thus mp5 is more important while also making sure crit and int are also important

[Tostibakker]

Sorry but these changes wont fly

5% extra healing from what prot has now is a huge buff

also cant member the name but your aoe for healing 5%? imagie this

paladin getting 4 holy lights off on that duration
15k each cuz some for 20k some less

a full raid aoe 3k heal while not much would be an all aoe raid heal

only part of this post i like is the seals improvements but the talent after that is a bit op



And shower of light is insane

I have buddys with 2k spell power i got less so you want a hot that is aoe with a 100% uptime healing for 3k heal over 12 secs???? AND to hit the full raid again?

Like I said I don't think everything should be used, it were just suggestions. Anyways 5% healing from Seal of Light is basicly the Glyph folded into a talent. The aura of light is exactly the same as the prot talent so I dont see what is OP about that, besides FoL is not strong enough. About Shower of Light, it might be a little too much, however you could say that you cant re-judge untill that HoT is finished, which means you would have to wait 12 sec to rejudge and 20 sec to re-apply the HoT. About the Aura Mastery AoE heal, I said all healing done, so even the healing from Beacon of Light would apply to this effect, making it more powerfull than you thought. Also Judgement of Light would cost ~750 mana and I have already said in the beginning of the post that the mana value of FoL and HL would have to go up a little. Shower of Light could be a seperate talent perhaps and give it like a 2-3 minute cooldown?

Meaning a Paladins healing would be like this:

MT > Beacon > Sacred Shield > FoL > HoT

At this point you will have the chance to go off target and heal an OT untill you apply the HoT there. Tank healing would be pretty fair in my opinion, but you would still be unable to compete with other healers when it comes to AoE damage. And at this point you can time your Judgement of Light to apply your AoE heal which costs a fair amount of mana and for "burst" healing you can use Aura Mastery.

Like I said some things could/should be left away or need to be toned down.

Make it more like a Holy priest's Holy Concentration since your idea is promoting spirit instead of mp5. Thus mp5 is more important while also making sure crit and int are also important

I thought I said mana regeneration while casting so I don't quite see why I'm promoting spirit, but to give it more value to intellect it could be changed to 10% of your total intellect or something. But then you could just stack intellect and gain the mp5 for free, still think increasing mp5 itself will cause more gear diversity.

[tanks271]

everything in that tree is rediculously overpowered, and blizzard wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole,

you think spamming circle of healing and renew from karazhan to m'uru was fun?
do you think spamming lifebloom/rejuiv and hovering your finger on swiftmend is fun?
How about shamans, chain heal and lesser healing wave?

every healer is a 2 button healer, wake up idiot

[Raiss]

I'm afraid that a healer having a replenish ability would be OP.

We don't need a aoe heal, we can help raid healing with holy lights and holy shocks.

What blizzard needs to do is:

Nerf Divine Plea again (or Seal of Wisdom)
Make Beacon doesn't work with overhealing again
Make Illumination to 50% mana cost. It would be a nerf, but it wouldn't destroy the talent.
Make Flash of Light stronger
Change the badge libram, less HL spamming, and those +spell power on Holy Light/flash of light librams could be actually usefull on pve

[Tostibakker]

everything in that tree is rediculously overpowered, and blizzard wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole,

you think spamming circle of healing and renew from karazhan to m'uru was fun?
do you think spamming lifebloom/rejuiv and hovering your finger on swiftmend is fun?
How about shamans, chain heal and lesser healing wave?

every healer is a 2 button healer, wake up idiot

Nice to see that you completely misunderstood the point of the post, it is not meant in any way to make holy paladins OP and I haven't said they should implement everything, nor have I said that the values for all talents were right. Anyways onward to your reply... I haven't made any statement about other healers and I have pretty much folded glyphs and one prot talent into the holy tree. Also the prot and retribution things for the seal / judgement talent are just placeholders because ithose specs aren't the subject of my thread.

Light's Grace and Judgement haste folded in to one talent with only a 15 sec lasting duration, meaning that if you wouldn't be able to cast during that time you would have to restack that buff, you could see this more of a nerf than a buff. Also voached for more expensive mana cost of the healing spells.

I removed a talent that gave + crit chance to HL and Holy Shock.

Don't see why improved seals or additional judgements effects wouldn't be an option for a talent seeing as no other spec cares about the holy tree and it would make seals better for diffrent situations... I haven't put any prot or ret tree in meaning that I haven't adjusted them for that improved seals talent, however if you would implement it then those trees need to be changed a bit aswell. And if you had truely read the post you would not have posted such an ignorant reply, I'm just asking for contructive replys and opinions on the way they think Holy Paladins are atm and should(n't) be changed.

[fabian]

You did say that and that is the problem. Spirit affects only OOC regen unless talented, mp5 affects both at the same rate but with less ooc regen. So if you want 50% mana regen while casting(which is the same thing meditation is) you're promoting spirit not mp5.

Holy Concentration for paladins would be all mana regen instead of spirit based since mana regen would be lower in general. It would promote to have more regular mana regen while also promoting mp5 above spirit because the holy paladin would have no talent likemeditation.

[Tostibakker]

You did say that and that is the problem. Spirit affects only OOC regen unless talented, mp5 affects both at the same rate but with less ooc regen. So if you want 50% mana regen while casting(which is the same thing meditation is) you're promoting spirit not mp5.

Holy Concentration for paladins would be all mana regen instead of spirit based since mana regen would be lower in general. It would promote to have more regular mana regen while also promoting mp5 above spirit because the holy paladin would have no talent likemeditation.

I don't want 50% mana regen to continue while casting, I want critical Holy Shocks to increase the mana regeneration rate by 50%. We are never OOC and even if we are the difference between mana regen while casting and mana regen OOC is barely nothing.

So lets say you have roughly 300 mp5, after a critical holy shock you would have 450 mp5 while casting.

So I think I'm promoting mp5 on gear and not spirit.

[fabian]

Ok, now I get your idea, it was just the wording that confused me. What I was suggesting to happen is what your proposed idea is. The idea is just like Holy Concentration though, so you might want to add that into your original post.

Paladins do need a talent like that, and having it on Holy Shock helps a lot more than HL or FoL.