combat- dual WP + DP

[bowflexinbrah]

has anyone tried having an extra offhand with DP on it and getting 5 stacks of dp and simply switching to another offhand with WP on it and then switching back to DP one before the debuff wears and shiving? would this increase combat dps? it seems it would.

[Gajan]

Pretty sure the time wasted doing this plus the basically wasted energy used on Shiv which could be used for another SS which can crit for quite a bit of dmg would negate the small amount of extra dmg you would get with WP on your OH. Plus you'd have to find a slow OH weap to maximze the WP potential and if you're running with CQC you'll be hard-pressed to do so as slow fist weaps are usually (always I believe, but usually to be safe ) main hand only. You would then have to use a 1.8 speed dagger and you wouldn't get too much extra dmg from the WP in the short amount of time between the Shivs you suggest. The extra SS you'd use would almost certainly out dmg the WP dmg you'd get. Plus I think with a 1.8 speed weapon Shiv is more expensive than a talented SS. Now that Shiv can't crit I think using it in PvE is a pretty dead concept unfortunately...

[ant1pathy]

It would not be a dps increase.

[bowflexinbrah]

Pretty sure the time wasted doing this plus the basically wasted energy used on Shiv which could be used for another SS which can crit for quite a bit of dmg would negate the small amount of extra dmg you would get with WP on your OH. Plus you'd have to find a slow OH weap to maximze the WP potential and if you're running with CQC you'll be hard-pressed to do so as slow fist weaps are usually (always I believe, but usually to be safe ) main hand only. You would then have to use a 1.8 speed dagger and you wouldn't get too much extra dmg from the WP in the short amount of time between the Shivs you suggest. The extra SS you'd use would almost certainly out dmg the WP dmg you'd get. Plus I think with a 1.8 speed weapon Shiv is more expensive than a talented SS. Now that Shiv can't crit I think using it in PvE is a pretty dead concept unfortunately...

you misunderstood what i was asking i think lemme clarify..

you start the fight with 3 weapons your slow MH with WP(wound poison) on it, the fastest offhand you can find[dps doesnt matter] with DP(deadly poison) on it, and a good dps offhand with WP on it. you start your rotaion and when 5 stacks of deadly poison are applied you switch the offhand to your WP one. countinue your rotaions until deadly poison has 3-4 seconds until it wears off. then you switch your offhand to the one with deadly poison on it and shiv, refreshing your stack. and then you switch your offhand back to the WP one. rinse, repeat.
would the already proven dps of double wound poison be hurt in any way by doing this? and would if increase a combat rogues dps by doing this. yes its a much more complicated rotaions to handle but i think it may be worth it for those who want a challenge

[Plawsky]

While it's a decent idea in theory - it wouldn't work.

1st - Shiv sucks. No crits on attack, no crits on poison. Assuming it's based on weapon damage, slower = more energy = less effective or faster = less damage = less effective.
2nd - Switching weapons - if I recall correctly - triggers the GCD. You're looking at 2 gcd's per cycle of DP to get this to work.
3rd - Too much room for error. To get this to work efficiently, your timing would have to be impeccable every time so you could get the gcd switch to work with the timing of the last DP stack. Also, you would have to have enough energy for a shiv as the stack was falling off.

If there were no gcd issue and shiv could still crit, this would be a possible rotation idea. However, it's too complicated to run smoothly all the time and probably wouldn't be any better even if you did it perfectly.

[failrogue]

deadly poison ticks off of your AP iirc. so switching to a sub par weapon would lower its overall tick amount yes?

[Joigahdenn]

Its good you're thinking of ways to increase dps, but this is not something that would achieve that.

Check out EJ forums for an idea about how to model this type of thing and if it would be worth it. A lot of basic info there, even if you would rather just do the math yourself instead of listening to their results/interpretations.

[Gajan]

deadly poison ticks off of your AP iirc. so switching to a sub par weapon would lower its overall tick amount yes?

You are correct about the AP affecting the DP dmg. However I think the OP is talking about some theoretical instance where both OH weaps you'd have would keep you at the same attack power and just have different poisons on them.

@OP... I did not misunderstand what you meant, read what Plawsky said because it's all correct. What I meant was that you using Shiv instead of SS in that GCD would already be a huge loss in dps. Also, like Plaw said you would be wasting a GCD switching weaps. SOOO the extra damage you would get from the WP from the OH you are switching to would really not come close to making up for the two losses mentioned above.

I did misspeak when I said that a 1.8 speed Shiv is more expensive than a SS because that wouldn't matter since the Shiv would be used with the 1.4 speed weapon. Still, I believe it would cost around 30 energy which really isn't worth it when you compare dmg per energy spent.

All in all, Shiv in PvE usually = bad as of now...

[bowflexinbrah]

ah so it causes too much gcds i didnt know it did . yeah itd be like 30% of your time waiting for gcd to use shiv and then going back. youd prob get energy capped :/

[bowflexinbrah]

You are correct about the AP affecting the DP dmg. However I think the OP is talking about some theoretical instance where both OH weaps you'd have would keep you at the same attack power and just have different poisons on them.

@OP... I did not misunderstand what you meant, read what Plawsky said because it's all correct. What I meant was that you using Shiv instead of SS in that GCD would already be a huge loss in dps. Also, like Plaw said you would be wasting a GCD switching weaps. SOOO the extra damage you would get from the WP from the OH you are switching to would really not come close to making up for the two losses mentioned above.

I did misspeak when I said that a 1.8 speed Shiv is more expensive than a SS because that wouldn't matter since the Shiv would be used with the 1.4 speed weapon. Still, I believe it would cost around 30 energy which really isn't worth it when you compare dmg per energy spent.

All in all, Shiv in PvE usually = bad as of now...

to me it seems you think i meant that youd shiv with a weapon with WP on it.. you said things like "the wp dmg youd get wouldnt be worth wasting energy on shiv." sry if i misread :|

[Gajan]

to me it seems you think i meant that youd shiv with a weapon with WP on it.. you said things like "the wp dmg youd get wouldnt be worth wasting energy on shiv." sry if i misread :|

Nah I meant if you Shiv you could be using SS instead, so that's the waste of energy. The extra damage I was talking about is the extra damage you'd be getting from dual wielding weapons with WP for a few seconds rather than having one with WP and one with DP. You'd get more WP procs overall for the fight, but it would most definitely be a loss in dps to jump through all the hoops and use Shiv instead of SS every time you need to refresh...

Like Joig said, I like where your head is at looking for ways to increase dps. Fortunately/unfortunately the people at EJ do A LOT of testing and usually have the best rotations/specs figured out before the content gets to the live servers. Rogues aren't getting too many changes this patch, but the next time we do you should hop on the PTR and play around with specs/rotations. I'm on there with my DK now trying to figure some stuff out for dual wielding, is kinda fun

[Annoying]

Technically speaking, having duplicate Bladetwisters with separate poisons *could* increase dps slightly, but at the cost of an insane amount of micromanagement. The idea would be the second you get an offhand DP application, switching to an identical offhand with WP for a few seconds for extra damage and then switching back well before DP falls wouldn't require shivving and would net more WP procs overall. This would make fitting the 2 GCD's quite a task, and require intense attention to your DP ticks and reapplications. A single weapon swap macro is easy, but losing track of which poison you're on could spell disaster for your DP stack and bomb your DPS more than just sticking with DP.