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  1. #41

    Re: do they test this game?

    Testing starts in-company a long time before Beta's and PTR's.

    I can guarantee they are test the next expansion at least minorly right now, and started testing for 3.2 and all the other major content patches many months before the PTR's even opened. Else all the PTR's would just be completely bugged where every ability would cause a fatal error. If they just set up PTR's and Beta's from what they worked out on paper, it wouldn't even be playable.

  2. #42

    Re: do they test this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrion
    nice generic canned responce...when anywhere did I say I could do it the actual testing better? Im starting a convo about blizzards testing process, and thats the only thing you could respond with? Im sure you could be more interesting than that....atleast I would hope...
    ok shoot me for wasting my tiem on this again but what the heck

    1.Wow is a pve based game that adopts the EQ style of boss fight. 1 tank takes all teh damage thats healed by say 8 healers while 14 dps kill teh boss. because of the damage a god needs to do compared to a player we instantly have a rule set that is fundamentally unbalanceable

    2.chaos theory. its not about chaos its about laws! 30 talent trees for 10 classes with thousands of skills combined with gear choices in similar number.
    changing any one skill affects not just it but all that interact with it. reducing the CD on CLOS for eg is a nerf to everything that it affects. like ripples in a pond one small change radiate out and have huge impacts.

    its beyond current computational ability to create this system and "test" it thats why the bio algorithm (millions of players doing millions of different strange and wonderous things) shows up eroors and imbalance.

    they nudge balance and it skids off in another direction


    basically wow pvp can simply NOT be balanced. they just juglle it about and claim its a work in progress. and for 5 years players believe it. lots still do . lots think balance will eventually come.

    it wont.

    accept it

    move on

  3. #43

    Re: do they test this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrion
    I mean from all perspectives, before season 6 started did they try every single combination of class's vs all other class's like they obviously should be? And if they dont WHY THE HELL NOT! If they for example tested arcane mage/rogue vs DK/tree druid, they would be like wait wait this is wrong, not balanced at all, and then they could make simple adjustments. If its this simple (and it is) a child could figure out that testing before release is probably a smart thing to do. Im sure you all could name plenty of other combinations of x/x vs y/y that just couldnt have possibly been tested before they let that garbage get into our hands. This is really the core problem, If a shaman/ret faces a shaman/hunter and the ret team can win the match with ease in comparison to the RNG/skill/luck needed by the hunter team, then make slight adjustments until it feels right, then if that same shaman/ret team has an easy time against a rogue/priest, where the shaman/hunter team has a hard time, then make slight changes to CD's and dmg healing #'s that bring them in line with eachother, then go back and test the ret vs the hunter team again, then move onto a diff comp and blah blah blah, you get the point. If they wanted to spend the time to balance the game they could, they certainly spend the time to make damn sure starcraft is as perfectly balanced as possible, and they certainly can do it with WOW if they made it there goal.
    You are suggesting that Blizzard test every single possible permutation of 3 vs. 3, or 2 vs. 2 fights, with all possible skills used at all possible times.

    Not to mention the variability of the HUMAN behind the controls.

    I'm pretty sure every developer in the world just collectively slapped you. In any case, your concept of how PvP is even remotely balanced is completely ludicrous and unrealisitic.

  4. #44

    Re: do they test this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lubr
    1) Your math is right, just not used correctly in this situation. There would be 165 (+10 if you include double teams, but those aren't meant to be balanced) different teams including the 3 specs. Not sure where you got that 435.

    2) Line-ups don't matter, its still gonna be a combination of those 165 teams just with different players; not sure what that is all about.

    3) Yes its still a absolute shit load of tests, and nearly impossible to do with any success.
    His math was correct, results included, for combinations (where order doesn't matter, as opposed to permutations) without repetitions. You calculate them as n!/(k!*(n-k)!) where n is the number of items you pick from and r is the number of items you pick.
    In our case n=30 k=2 so: 30!/(2*28!)=435

    However we are interested in repetitions
    Combination with repetitions is calculated by this equation (n+k-1)!/(k!*(n-1)!)
    In our case 31!/(2*29!)=465

    We have 465 possible setups. Now we have to match them up against each other. We can ignore repetitions because they are by default balanced.
    In this case n=465 k=2: 465!/(2*463!)=107880

  5. #45

    Re: do they test this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lubr
    (+10 if you include double teams, but those aren't meant to be balanced)
    And why shouldn't they be?

  6. #46

    Re: do they test this game?

    oh don't forget to add in all the professions on every class with everyspec.

  7. #47

    Re: do they test this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamward
    His math was correct, results included, for combinations (where order doesn't matter, as opposed to permutations) without repetitions. You calculate them as n!/(k!*(n-k)!) where n is the number of items you pick from and r is the number of items you pick.
    In our case n=30 k=2 so: 30!/(2*28!)=435

    However we are interested in repetitions
    Combination with repetitions is calculated by this equation (n+k-1)!/(k!*(n-1)!)
    In our case 31!/(2*29!)=465

    We have 465 possible setups. Now we have to match them up against each other. We can ignore repetitions because they are by default balanced.
    In this case n=465 k=2: 465!/(2*463!)=107880
    Hmm, I realised I did something wrong, and when the other guy gave an explanation I just went with that because basically I'm not all knowing and quite gullible. still nice to see that I'm not the only one who makes mistakes in this.

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