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  1. #21

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    So what you're saying is that with 0 regen frost gives the best DPM... that sounds like the most mana effecient spec to me.

  2. #22

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    @Prayerz

    no offence, but if u never figure out how to use dispersion without losing a shitload of dps due to that 6 sec silence....well..better start to look at the fight in another way rly...
    Inside Ulduar you have plenty of time on each boss fight to use dispersion and regen load of mana without losing load of dps...thsi has been proved already

    2 min dispersion pvewise ( talking about replenish nerf that i bet will hurt alot on our mana management ) is a pure win imho

    As for hoh ( let's not consider the mana regen it give to other raider ), it's another pure win spell if you see yourself going too low on mana on a hard fight...
    use fiend and start channeling it to regen LOT more mana than with a normal fiend ( fiend mana regen is based on your surrent mana pool ).

  3. #23

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramuh
    while it might be the best for general hard its not necesarily the most mana efficient one, since fire and arcane heavily rely on mana regen, fire needs master of elements (and empowered fireball thingy in future patch) and arcane needs evocation.
    Frost is by far most mana efficient one.

  4. #24

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prayerz
    With 18613 mana, if i cast Hymn dropping SF and channeling for 8 seconds..
    IF you are one of the 3 selected with the lowest mana
    You would gain 2232 mana from the hymn.
    You recast SF at a cost of 1161 mana
    a net GAIN of 1071 mana .....+ what ever mana you gained while replenishment ticks & spirit regen

    1071 ...Seriously, Your kidding right
    It seems you forget the 20% mana buff, at 18613 mana when you pop HoH, you would get 22336 mana (IF it targets you ofcourse), that is a gain of 3723 mana which will dissapear after the effect ends, when HoH ends you still have a few seconds to go in shadowform. You will still have gained 2232 mana (as you say), because the cost of shadowform will come from the 3723 mana that comes and goes, much like last stand.

  5. #25

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?


    but if spriest are'nt mages, why does mage get spriest talent?
    Erm, Mages and Shadowpriests got this talent at the same time. It is not a Shadowpriest talent that Mages were given.

    You might as well say "Why are Shadowpriests getting a mage talent?"
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  6. #26

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon
    Erm, Mages and Shadowpriests got this talent at the same time. It is not a Shadowpriest talent that Mages were given.

    You might as well say "Why are Shadowpriests getting a mage talent?"
    I think he was referring to replenishment that was originally and exclusive spriest talent.

  7. #27

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon
    Erm, Mages and Shadowpriests got this talent at the same time. It is not a Shadowpriest talent that Mages were given.

    You might as well say "Why are Shadowpriests getting a mage talent?"
    no I reffered to the "troll racial priest" spell that was in tbc, Hex of Weaknes, reduce healing with 20%. So its not a mage talent at first

  8. #28

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Quote Originally Posted by shhadow
    no I reffered to the "troll racial priest" spell that was in tbc, Hex of Weaknes, reduce healing with 20%. So its not a mage talent at first
    Because a curse that reduced healing and physical damage is exactly the same as a 20% healing magic debuff passively added as an effect to Mind Blast if you spend 5 talent points.

    Right?
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  9. #29

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon
    Because a curse that reduced healing and physical damage is exactly the same as a 20% healing magic debuff passively added as an effect to Mind Blast if you spend 5 talent points.

    Right?
    nope its not the same spell as in tbc, but what I meant was that shadow priest had the 20% healing debuff at hand first, then removed, then we get it back together with a mage getting it

  10. #30

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    One Priest race had a spell that has one thing that is similar to the new talent.

    It isn't like they are giving back the old Hex of Weakness and giving it to mages as well, they are giving both of us a new effect that just happens to have one thing in common with a spell that was removed ages ago, the healing reduction. Every other part of the effect we are getting is completely different.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  11. #31

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Shadow will never be viable for arena's,ever. I learned this long ago and rerolled a melee class for arena's, probably time you do the same.

  12. #32

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Quote Originally Posted by iebe
    It seems you forget the 20% mana buff, at 18613 mana when you pop HoH, you would get 22336 mana (IF it targets you ofcourse), that is a gain of 3723 mana which will dissapear after the effect ends, when HoH ends you still have a few seconds to go in shadowform. You will still have gained 2232 mana (as you say), because the cost of shadowform will come from the 3723 mana that comes and goes, much like last stand.
    I stand corrected, 22335 mana on my toon actually =) but hey whats 1 mana between priests.

    So IF your 1 of the 3 lowest, and you get the spell benefits, you get 6-6.5 seconds at the end to get back in shadow form and use what you can as shadowform trips the gcd.
    I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him. - Mark Twain

  13. #33

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sefa
    @Prayerz

    no offence, but if u never figure out how to use dispersion without losing a shitload of dps due to that 6 sec silence....well..better start to look at the fight in another way rly...
    Inside Ulduar you have plenty of time on each boss fight to use dispersion and regen load of mana without losing load of dps...thsi has been proved already

    2 min dispersion pvewise ( talking about replenish nerf that i bet will hurt alot on our mana management ) is a pure win imho

    As for hoh ( let's not consider the mana regen it give to other raider ), it's another pure win spell if you see yourself going too low on mana on a hard fight...
    use fiend and start channeling it to regen LOT more mana than with a normal fiend ( fiend mana regen is based on your surrent mana pool ).

    None taken.

    I am curious though, If your going to tell me how it looks inside you might want to make sure I haven't seen it already =P

    I haven't said using dispersion equals a net loss of dps, even though depending on the fight thats debatable.

    Do I use it, Yes i do, alot. However I do not think a cooldown change is going to help it much at all. The spell/ability is lacking, and while this is imho i'm not alone. As with most end of tree talents, there is plenty of debate on pro's and con's. All things considered I am glad they are starting to look at shadow.

    Do I personally have mana issues on some fights, not normally. Unless its a fight like HM Gen V where the mana is a design issue and should come into play.

    As for HoH ....while my math was wrong and corrected =)
    I'll say it again; I do use it, but not for myself normally. My point being it isn't meant to be relied on like shadow fiend or dispersion ( again used as a mana utility). Its a great spell, made better by some of the changes to it. The " Last Stand " of mana alone makes the spell priceless for fights like General, and to bridge a gap when needed.

    With the replenishment nerf is incoming, will this all change. Meh, who knows, but we'll all still be on our priests most likely.


    I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him. - Mark Twain

  14. #34

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Crazy trick.

    Pop hymn.
    Get 20% more mana buff
    Quickly follow with sfiend.
    Profit

  15. #35

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jubite
    Crazy trick.

    Pop hymn.
    Get 20% more mana buff
    Quickly follow with sfiend.
    Profit
    Its actually more efficient to pop fiend then hymn; you'll get the maximum number of swings during the 20% mana buff.

    Also, you can drop a point into Inner Focus and macro it to Shadow Form to negate the cost of popping out for hymn.

  16. #36
    Pandaren Monk gaymer77's Avatar
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    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    First I have to ask, what are mages getting that is a MS-type effect? I may have missed that in patch notes somewhere.

    Second, I will agree that the 20% healing reduction is total bullshit since its not a stacking debuff. It should be 50% just like every other class's debuff they get. This "pvp buff" is just a slap in the face at trying to give us some type of pvp survivability. Sadly it falls very short of giving us just that. A shadow priest's biggest weakness is NOT heal healer but the person they are healing. I've never had any issues killing a healer on my priest EVER (btw a protadin =/= a healer since they are prot spec healing not a "true" healer). Same thing with this "buff" to dispersion that is a wasted talent for pve and quite frequently wasted in pvp. I say wasted because unlike every other class's 51 point talent that is popped every time its up (some just a few seconds others are a few minutes) WE hardly ever use it.

    Also any priest who complains about Hymn of Hope's mana regen sucking because it costs so much mana for you to cast & you get so little back...assuming you are one of the targeted people who get the mana regen...its a spell that is meant to help others out not necessarily you. I use it after phase 2 on Mimiron when our healers need the mana back because THEY need mana back. We actually have this thing where I run over to the door you walk through when you first get there, they get there, and I cast it so I know they are within range of HoH and it not get wasted on some mage who might be in range who might not need it (yes I know its a large range but the point being is the rest of the raid is on the other side of the room leaving us alone).

    Lastly, a shadow priest that has problems is a bad shadow priest & probably doesn't have 3 points into meditation or 3 points in focused mind. Both of those talents help shadow priests virtually no mana problems since one reduces the mana cost of our most used spell (mind flay) and our biggest dmg dealing spell that we use every 5.5 seconds when its off CD AND gives us high mp5 while casting since we are literally always casting because of mindf lay. There is only 1 fight in Ulduar that I have mana issues & that's the one that every other mana user besides ele shaman have a problem with....General Vezax.

    My own two cents is that we need some kind of spell like shaman (lightning overload which has a 33% chance to cast another lightning bolt or chain lightning at 1/2 the dmg, no threat, no cast time, and cost no mana) get that allow us to get a second mana free mind blast. That would also up our dps a lot since we are typically lower than other casters on a lot of fights. That would be a great thing to give us. For that they could buff VE to give us the straight up buff you would get going imp VE and then move mind melt in its place & put that talent. Two points with first one giving like a 25% chance & 2 points giving 50% chance since MB is a longer CD than chain lightning & right on par with the CD for chain lightning.

  17. #37

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    First I have to ask, what are mages getting that is a MS-type effect? I may have missed that in patch notes somewhere.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Permafrost: In addition to its existing effects, this talent now also causes the mage's Chill effects to reduce healing received by the victim by 7/13/20%.
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  18. #38

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    First I have to ask, what are mages getting that is a MS-type effect? I may have missed that in patch notes somewhere.

    Second, I will agree that the 20% healing reduction is total bullshit since its not a stacking debuff. It should be 50% just like every other class's debuff they get. This "pvp buff" is just a slap in the face at trying to give us some type of pvp survivability. Sadly it falls very short of giving us just that. A shadow priest's biggest weakness is NOT heal healer but the person they are healing. I've never had any issues killing a healer on my priest EVER (btw a protadin =/= a healer since they are prot spec healing not a "true" healer). Same thing with this "buff" to dispersion that is a wasted talent for pve and quite frequently wasted in pvp. I say wasted because unlike every other class's 51 point talent that is popped every time its up (some just a few seconds others are a few minutes) WE hardly ever use it.

    Also any priest who complains about Hymn of Hope's mana regen sucking because it costs so much mana for you to cast & you get so little back...assuming you are one of the targeted people who get the mana regen...its a spell that is meant to help others out not necessarily you. I use it after phase 2 on Mimiron when our healers need the mana back because THEY need mana back. We actually have this thing where I run over to the door you walk through when you first get there, they get there, and I cast it so I know they are within range of HoH and it not get wasted on some mage who might be in range who might not need it (yes I know its a large range but the point being is the rest of the raid is on the other side of the room leaving us alone).
    *edited for clarity

    Erm, nobody is asking for buffs to PVE. Shadowpriests are fine there. And a random proc to get an additional Mind Blast might help us out in PVP except Blizzard have already said that they do not want RNG being the deciding factor, which is why they removed Blackout. So we are not going to get a new, replacement RNG effect to replace it.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  19. #39
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    A shadow priest's biggest weakness is NOT heal healer but the person they are healing. I've never had any issues killing a healer on my priest EVER (btw a protadin =/= a healer since they are prot spec healing not a "true" healer).
    This. Melee is our bane of existance, not healers. Healers weren't easy to kill but doable, melee on the other hand is just impossible.
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite signature on the forum.

  20. #40

    Re: Mage got it, why not sPriest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prayerz
    ....no offense but your comment goes directly to the problem with dispersion.

    For PVE Its a 51 point, moving, 6 second silence, mana pot.

    No, just No.
    or it's a life saver. I don't see anything wrong with it and wouldn't change anything about it. The CD change is meh to me.

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