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  1. #21

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Sorry, but your idea is really stupid and useless. Not my fault you think linear and can't see why. However, neither me or you are devs so luckily, we won't see such a change.

    Having a dpser sacrifice dps time to open himself for free nuking is really dumb. I'm talking about 3v3 scenario seeing that 2s will pretty much be abandoned in 3.2.

    Having a DPSer fully dotting up a target and then making all of those DoTs completely undispellable by his arena partners is a bad idea, though, because you say so, right? So would completely removing the healer from the opponents team, either forcing him to blow a cooldown or trinket or forcing his partners to drop what they are doing to stop you would never be a good strategy.

    Like Frostbolt, glyphed Shadowflame, Chains of Ice, Deadly Throw, or countless others?
    Sorry, I meant an instant ranged snare, that was my fault for not clarifying.

    Frostbolt has a cast time, Glyphed Shadowflame costs a glyph slot and is melee range only, Deadly throw requires combo points on the target and Chains of Ice is just silly, honestly, although in theorey it has a cooldown because of the runes (even if it doesn't work out like that).

    Edited because I can't read ><
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  2. #22

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Clearly your stunningly original ideas of giving us a direct copy of another classes talent is much better. I suppose you must be tired of whining about Shadow being useless in PVE and have moved on to deciding that only your ideas and yours alone can be the way to fix PVP.
    I'm sorry, but what the hell is your problem? I haven't whined about shadow being useless in pve, try to invest whole half a second to look at my nickname and not mistake me with someone else.

    Clearly extra healing coming from our damage will help a lot while silenced, will get melee off of us, will help with stuns, ect. Oh, wait, no, its a terrible, terrible idea. Go back to your whines about PVE, at least there your comical ineptness can be pointed out more clearly.
    Try to play shadow in arena before theorycrafting about useless ability for shadow spec.

    Having a DPSer fully dotting up a target and then making all of those DoTs completely undispellable by his arena partners is a bad idea, though, because you say so, right? So would completely removing the healer from the opponents team, either forcing him to blow a cooldown or trinket or forcing his partners to drop what they are doing to stop you would never be a good strategy.
    You won't force trinket on anyone, it takes 1 spit on you for MC to break. Oh, it has a low range also and numerous bugs. Yes, you'd get owned and waste mana on that ability. Judging sp's mana pool is about 15 - 16k, wasting shitloads of mana for half a second of interrupt means nothing.

    The only 2 classes that are helpless against magic effects completely are druid and shaman (shaman to some extent due to grounding totem). They are not undispellable, just by saying that I can safely assume you haven't played shadow in arena at all. If you have, it was a limited experience.

    Please, take out your nerd rage somewhere else. If I hit a nerve calling your idea stupid then work on it, because it's visible from an airplane it's really dumb.

  3. #23

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    I'm sorry, but what the hell is your problem? I haven't whined about shadow being useless in pve, try to invest whole half a second to look at my nickname and not mistake me with someone else.

    Try to play shadow in arena before theorycrafting about useless ability for shadow spec.

    You won't force trinket on anyone, it takes 1 spit on you for MC to break. Oh, it has a low range also and numerous bugs. Yes, you'd get owned and waste mana on that ability. Judging sp's mana pool is about 15 - 16k, wasting shitloads of mana for half a second of interrupt means nothing.

    The only 2 classes that are helpless against magic effects completely are druid and shaman (shaman to some extent due to grounding totem). They are not undispellable, just by saying that I can safely assume you haven't played shadow in arena at all. If you have, it was a limited experience.

    Please, take out your nerd rage somewhere else. If I hit a nerve calling your idea stupid then work on it, because it's visible from an airplane it's really dumb.
    Sorry, got you confused with Strykzor, I'll be sure to be more careful in the future.

    You won't force trinket on anyone, it takes 1 spit on you for MC to break. Oh, it has a low range also and numerous bugs. Yes, you'd get owned and waste mana on that ability. Judging sp's mana pool is about 15 - 16k, wasting shitloads of mana for half a second of interrupt means nothing.
    If they have a choice between either using a trinket/cooldown or letting the person they are supposed to be healing die, then it is pretty obvious which they should do.

    The only 2 classes that are helpless against magic effects completely are druid and shaman (shaman to some extent due to grounding totem). They are not undispellable, just by saying that I can safely assume you haven't played shadow in arena at all. If you have, it was a limited experience.
    I never said they were undispellable, I said that if you use Mind Control on their dispeller or move the MCd player out of Line of Sight, it will not be able to be dispelled.

    Also, warriors, rogues have dispel magic now? Huh. And Cloak of Shadows is unable to be used to remove an effect that stops you using it, before you point that one out.

    Please, take out your nerd rage somewhere else. If I hit a nerve calling your idea stupid then work on it, because it's visible from an airplane it's really dumb.
    And your idea to make VE healing better is either completely overpowered for PVE or totally useless in PVP since either it will get dispelled by the classes that could dispel Mind Control, or you will not be able to actually do enough damage due to being locked down by melee. Mind Control is the only CC in the game where the player still takes damage and cannot be healed by the other team, if it was made less useless because of the long cast time it might actually get cast by more than Disc priests coaxing a shadow school lockout so they can heal.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  4. #24

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Ok, seeing VE costs 0 mana I'd rather have them dispeling it all the time.

    Now, as for mind control - over past 4 weeks I've been trying to use it extensively. The ability is completely and utterly bugged, from random breaking to lag issues in arena etc, it's really REALLY unreliable to have someone hit 2x with mind blast because it'll be hard as is already, and then you'd have a dot of some sort (be it physical or magic) and that prevents you from using that ability.

    You know very well that every class in this game has a dot of a sort, bleed ones are PITA and that alone prevents you from using insta-mc or mc for that purpose properly. What we do need is either spammable cc or a form of healing. DK has death strike / rune tap, we only have VE and are extremely susceptible to interrupt if we try to go all-out on someone to heal up as much as possible while VE is up.

    Hence, I think that insta-mc is bad. However, if they redesigned the MC so you have the controlled player as a pet.. now that's something that's useful but would take so much coding that I doubt devs would consider it.

  5. #25

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Recasting VE because of its 0 mana cost would be better if it didn't waste a GCD, and since Dispel removes 2 buffs per GCD it is a bit of a losing battle if they want to keep it off. Next patch, alternating between it and VT might be a more viable considering the damage buff that it is receiving on the dispel penalty. In fact, casting VT and VE instantly afterwards should let you heal yourself for a not-terrible amount of damage.

    I also agree that it is pretty bugged, between the breaking on distance breaking on damage and just random breaking.

    I think that redesigning Mind Control to give you control of the target as a pet would be very interesting, and would remove the main weakness of the spell, the channel time and self-cc (although I am somewhat selfishly against this idea, as it would stop us from using it to throw people off of cliffs). Ghostcrawler mentioned something vague about the possibility of redesigning Mind Control in the way you described in the unofficial Shadowpriest Q&A, but I doubt they will change it around to much, at least in this expansion.

    I don't really understand what you mean about the DoTs interfering with Mind Control, though. I have never had the channel interrupted by DoTs, only direct damage.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  6. #26

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    The channel breaks on any sort of damage, dots included.

    Also, I didn't answer on your last post - Warriors have spellreflect and shield wall, they can put up some defense against dots. I wasn't saying that there's a class that can deny our dots 100% of the time, but yes - there are defenses available.
    CloS, or vanish if the rogue is skilled and has low latency (vanishes just the split second before cast is done, you'll cast the spell and waste mana, he won't be dotted, same works for fear).
    AMS, bubble, cleanse and so on and on and on

  7. #27

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    I agree that most if not all classes have some defence against our DoTs, that is why I thought that having Mind Control actually castable realistically would be good. While MC'd, they can't use any defensive abilities, or blow any damage reduction cooldowns (apart from IB and DS). If you could hold them behind a pillar out of LoS or away from their dispeller, then the DoTs would tick down without them being able to stop them.

    I have managed to kill quite a few players like this just in general battlegrounds where you can sometimes get off a regular Mind Control, since players are less organised, and it would be a nice tactic if they could allow you to use it in the Arena as well. Of course, if they made Mind Control work as you suggested, it could be a viable tactic too, but honestly the three second cast time combined with the short range means it is unlikely to be used.

    That is the main reason I suggested the cast time reduction talent when you cast Mind Blast. You could use Mind Blast and follow it up with a 1.5 second MC, or if you can get two Mind Blasts off, use MC instantly.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  8. #28

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    What good does a knockback if the melee just sprints/shadowsteps/intercepts/deathgrips back to you ASAP? We need a reliable snare to be able to kite melee that's it. We already have ways to get away from melees (at least on paper, through dispersion and imp. fade) - but they always are at us again 1 second later because they all have good gap closers while we don't have a way to kite them.

    Mindflay slow should stay on for 10 seconds no matter how long you channel it, that would rock.
    Would help if you read the entire post, Knockback + a snare to give time to actually do something, but your argument aint exactly a good one...

    What good does a blink/knockback/portal if the melee just sprints/shadowsteps/intercepts/deathgrips back to you ASAP?

    We need a short cooldown way to get away, they need one to catch up, simple.
    If we could always get away it would be pointless and if we never could get away it would be equally pointless, we need some sort of balance to the whole thing.

    We need some way to get melee off us that is -not- a fear or dispersion, there are just too many fear breakers for it to be reliable and Dispersion has too long of a cooldown to be used reliable.

    We need something on a shorter cooldown (hi there 15sec weakened soul or so) that can get melee off us for a short time so we can set up some burst/fade snares to escape or whatever.

    The whole "what good does a knockback do if they can just blah blah blah" is just plain stupid, all ranged should have escape methods and all melee should have ways to catch up, wich is true currently, everyone does... except for shadow priests.

  9. #29

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Rianabi
    The whole "what good does a knockback do if they can just blah blah blah" is just plain stupid, all ranged should have escape methods and all melee should have ways to catch up, wich is true currently, everyone does... except for shadow priests.
    But we have Fear! Which hasn't really been a game mechanic since 2.1, at least... >.>
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  10. #30

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    But we have Fear! Which hasn't really been a game mechanic since 2.1, at least... >.>
    At this point, Fear is as dependable a crowd control as when Frost Nova broke on its own damage. Critting for 50 with rank 2 FN and having it break so that you got killed (in heroics as well) was AWESOME :
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  11. #31

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon
    At this point, Fear is as dependable a crowd control as when Frost Nova broke on its own damage. Critting for 50 with rank 2 FN and having it break so that you got killed (in heroics as well) was AWESOME :
    That was retarded, I remember that. But of course we can't have Shadow Priests chain-casting CC at the beginning of a match, that's overpowered!
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  12. #32

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Our fear is good, it's really good infact, the problem is that it is effective against casters, not melee.

    All melee basically have ways to negate fear... zerker rage, lichborne, tremor totems and so on... and the only ones that dont have active skills against it (paladins and rogues) either always play with dispellers on their team, or have other ways to break cc (bubble, wotf etc)

    We generally dont have that big problems against casters all things considered, what we need is something that can keep frost DKs for example from whacking us down to 30% hp before we even got our dots up.

    There needs to be some escape ability, and slow on mindflay after we stopped channeling just aint going to cut it, there is no point in applying a snare to a target if we cant also get some distance, since we -will- also be slowed by the melee, and using dispersion to just get some distance is a horrible use for such a powerful defensive cooldown.

    Only skill we have that could really use some love and already has sort of a cooldown is the shield.

    Cant use it more than every 15sec or so, just like similar escape abilities, gives us a -reliable- escape mechanism against melee wich we so desperately need.

    Just merge it with another talent and add something along the following lines...

    Your power word shield now absorbs an additional ammount based on your spellpower and when broken knockbacks all hostile targets within 10 yards for 20 yards and applies a 50% movement reduction to them for 5sec.

    The ranges, slow, damage absorbtion and everything would ofcourse have to be properly balanced, but along with a partner it would really help as far as the melee train goes on us.

  13. #33

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    How about a 1.5sec cast AoE Sap on a 10min CD that incorporates a small AoE heal, but you have to pop out of SF to use it?

    To balance it out, if one person breaks the sap, they all break.

    I think this could easily make it to live.

  14. #34

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    glyphed Shadowflame
    Its not ranged... it has a cooldown.....

    I do agree that shadow priest need more survival.


  15. #35

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-
    ]
    How about a 1.5sec cast AoE Sap on a 10min CD that incorporates a small AoE heal, but you have to pop out of SF to use it?

    To balance it out, if one person breaks the sap, they all break.

    I think this could easily make it to live.
    No our problem isn't crowd control, it's getting enough distance from melee to get a cast off at all, only thing that would do when the other team is pounding on you is drop you out of SF making you take more damage and even if you got the cast off your team would break it right away trying to peal the melee off you in the first place... or your dots will do it.

  16. #36

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Rianabi
    No our problem isn't crowd control, it's getting enough distance from melee to get a cast off at all, only thing that would do when the other team is pounding on you is drop you out of SF making you take more damage and even if you got the cast off your team would break it right away trying to peal the melee off you in the first place... or your dots will do it.
    ....I honestly didn't think anyone wouldn't recognize this spell as 3.0-3.1 DH and therefore everyone would assume the /sarcasm. I will try to be more, um, obvious next time.

  17. #37

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-
    ]
    ....I honestly didn't think anyone wouldn't recognize this spell as 3.0-3.1 DH and therefore everyone would assume the /sarcasm. I will try to be more, um, obvious next time.
    Sorry i'm tired, didn't sleep last night, sarcasm detector went along with my ability to fall asleep lately

  18. #38
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixia
    Its not ranged... it has a cooldown.....

    I do agree that shadow priest need more survival.
    AFAIK it has the same range as cone of cold, which would be 5-8 yards? And while it does have a cooldown, the cooldown is lower than the snare duration so you can apply it again before it runs out, right?

    If a 10s slow debuff from mindflay would be overpowered (which I still think it wouldn't), then just let us have a 50-70% slow on Mindblast through some talent. It has a cast time and a cooldown. And hey, against melees we're slowed to 30-50% almost all the time anyway so it would cancel each other out.
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  19. #39
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    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    I know Blizzard seems to be against giving every ability to every class, but considering that both Warlocks and Mages have a way to escape melee and Priests do not, I just think a snare is the easiest way to fix it, and it fits right in with the Shadow concept too, what with all the abilities affecting the mind. Numbers and effects are obviously up for balancing but here's the basic idea:

    Paralysis Instant -Paralyzes a target, rendering them unable to move for 6s but still able to attack and cast. One Minute Cooldown.

    This sort of thing would also go well with the Dark Control idea I've seen floating around here a few times such that it, Psychic Scream, and Silence could all have their CDs reduced by that talent. I think the cooldown could be troublesome because it would be very powerful when combined with Fear (Fear to get them a bit away from you, they trinket, you paralyze them and then get a few seconds to stack some DoTs and possibly get off a Mind Blast or Mind Flay.


    I also like the snare effect idea on Dispersion proposed in the OP. Make sure it only affects those in melee range. Another alternative would be to steal part of the mechanic of Body and Soul and make it so Dispersion just increases your movement speed by, say, 60% for the duration, then you even avoid the whole "we don't want to give a snare to Priests" reason that Blizzard has put forth.

  20. #40

    Re: Shadow Priest Survivability Ideas - PvP

    I'd be a happy panda if they left Chastise in the game, it owned so much considering the cooldown and all..

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