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  1. #1

    Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    For awhile (3 months of raiding) i thought that gemming for int was the way to go for disc priest, i mean int gives so many groovy little door prizes like, a bigger mana pool which in turn leads to more mana regen if there is replenishment in the raid(replenishment gives mana back based on maximum mana size) and for Rapture which gives 2.5% of maximum mana when a shield breaks if you invest 3 skill points into it, int gives crit, and it gives a little mana regen too. However i met a fello disc priest today who had gemmed everything with crit and she/he (who can tell these days) told me that when healing an mt mana is never an issue. Her/his mana regen was only in the 200s where as mine was in the high 400s. Having a bunch of crit meant she just needed to shield and penance the tank and that got her/him through all the bosses in uludar 25 man. She/he was in full t8+ and a bunch of other such ilvl 226 items. Now my question is should crit be the way for disc priest to gem their gear or is int still the way to go?

    Any assistance for clearing up this confusion is appreciated.
    P.S. Any critiques or advice? Thanks

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...tanger&gn=Dawn

  2. #2

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    I don't see it. Even with replenishment, some harder fights are taxing enough on my mana that I can't see it being worth it. As far as gems go, Crit is horribly budgeted imo. Its great on gear, but I would never gem for it. I'd say you are probably better off gemming SP if you are trying to gem for throughput.

  3. #3

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    I believe that gemming int (specifically, +9 sp / +8int) is still the right way to go as a discipline priest. I sit on a 30% crit unbuffed and in 25 man raids (considering Renewed Hope, occasionally Improved Flash Heal, Moonkin Aura, Focus Magic, Elemental Oath) you can easily reach 45+ % crit. Crit. gives you more throughput and a stronger divine aegis, while Int is the key of discipline regen mechanic and even if your friend states that his mana is fine and while healing the tank he never goes oom, i can assure you that there are fights, such as Council, Mimiron, maybe Hodir, when your mana indeed goes down fast, expecially when you are not only healing tank (Discipline priests are not only supposed to Shield ---> Penance tanks by the way). Int gives a little crit. too and increases the value of your spirit in terms of mana regen.

    If i may, i'd give you an advice about your current spec.
    I'd spec this way http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=&version=10072# since noone uses GH much these days and -10% magic dmg taken is a valuable option in Ulduar. Glyph of Flash Heal is a much more valuable option for a disci priest than the PoH one in my opinion. It saves a lot of mana.

  4. #4

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    Keep in mind that shadowfiend and hymn of hope also return mana based on total mana pool... Mana is not taxed in any of the regular mode fights in the same way as it is in hard modes. In addition to the larger mana pool, you also do get some crit from the additional intellect (though not as much as if you were to socket crit directly), and intellect gains additional benefit from talents and kings.

    At such point as you're able to defeat all the hard mode fights without mana being an issue, you should start socketing other than int as it becomes effectively a mostly wasted stat. Which stat you'll want to build will depend on your balance of crit, haste, and SP.

    As to your friend being able to keep up the MT with just penance and shield, I'm going to go on a limb here and say they weren't the only healer assigned to that tank, and that's not all they were doing... Of course if it were, they could endure almost any length encounter w/ < 20k mana. We bring some normalization to the incoming damage, cutting down the spikes, but generally cannot solo heal the MT in 25-man content, and especially not in hard mode.

    Crit is great for DA procs, but don't underestimate the impact of SP for delivering larger heals / shields, or haste to the soft cap for faster delivery. You should be able to hit the haste soft cap, 40% holy crit, 30k+ mana (this is a good level to aim for when considering Vezax on hard mode), and 2600-2900 SP with raid buffs from 25-man Ulduar gear, and push even higher with hard mode gear.

    As to suggestions from your armory...

    Pull the 2 points you have invested in Improved Healing. It's not that big a savings on your Penance, and you shouldn't really be casting GH except in rare occasions where you time it to hit after a large anticipated spike of damage (i.e. Mimiron / Plasma Blast). For the same reason, you really don't need the 4 points into Divine Fury. You do need to put 3 pts somewhere in that tree to reach the 3rd tier, and I'd suggest Spell Warding. That talent along with Healing Focus helps a lot in Ulduar.

    This leaves you 3 points free. Put them in Focused Will. Many people miss this because it was traditionally a PVP talent, but now at 3/3 it gives you an additional 3% spell crit.

    For glyphs, Penance and Shield are pretty much must-haves. If you're concerned about mana at all, the Flash Heal glyph is a good way to go. PoH glyph is nice in 5- and 10-man raiding, but in 25-man content it's not likely to ever realize any real additional healing amidst the efforts of the assigned raid healers.

    For gear...

    Change your head glyph to the SP/Crit one from Kirin'tor rep, it'll serve you much better. Same thing with the shoulder inscription.

    Tbh, regarding gemming, you've got some resocketing to do. Your meta (a good choice for disc) requires 3 red gems, so that's really easy to meet. Blue is typically a horrible gem for us. The only reason to ever socket a green or purple gem (though never a blue) would be if the socket bonus were worthwhile. On your belt the bonus is 5 SP, so basically if you socket SP/Stam you get 12 stamina in trade for 5 SP, not a bad bargain. But you T7.5 shoulders you get 4 spirit and 3 MP5 at the expense of a potential of 10 more spellpower from a runed gem - not as good a trade.

    You seem to be socketing a lot of red sockets with SP/MP5 gems. Basically you're trading an extra 10 SP by not using Runed for 3 MP5, which is a very bad deal. As a rule of thumb, socket red with +19 SP, yellow w/ +16 Int, and blue with SP/Stam. While with this last one MP5 or Spirit might be a better choice from a regen perspective, this shouldn't be an issue, and more stam = less likely a dead priest. Again, don't feel you have to match every socket for bonus.

    As to your gear in general, you're moving in the right direction except for trinkets imo. While Spark of Hope is the best in the game for when our mana actually will be taxed, in any other (in other words, most) cases it gives us absolutely nothing since we don't convert spirit into any other useful throughput. Great one to have in the bag, but find a trinket that gives more oomph to your healing (keep an eye out for Eye of the Broodmother - I think it's off of Kologarn-10). And even more so, I'd dump Living Ice Crystals. The only real value it brings is the instant heal, which really isn't all that hot. For priests, it's a nice PVP trinket but that's about it. Dropping these trinkets will definitely impact your 'listed' mana regen, but you get a lot more regen over the course of a night through mechanisms tuned to your total mana pool.

    I logged in my healing set (though in pvp spec so some stats will be slightly different than normal) in what's working for me as a pretty balanced setup for current content.

    Edit -- My normal PVE spec and glyphs
    Bigslick (13/14H)
    "Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."

  5. #5

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    Do you run out of mana? If yes, gem Int. If no, gem your favorite throughput stat (haste, crit, sp).

    Once you pile up the Ulduar gear you really shouldn't have any mana problems, if you do then you're probably not throwing enough shields out to proc Rapture or doing a ton of overhealing for no reason.

    I personally use the following spec, and gem a ton of haste (like 560 ish) which allows me to drop gheal bombs at 1.4 seconds with Borrowed Time and I rarely use Fheal anymore. The gear/spec/glyphs/healing style allow me to solo heal tanks through almost any encounter and I never really have mana problems.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...&version=10072

  6. #6

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    Even when I'm on MT duty I still do plenty of other things. Shielding other players that get low and PoHing my group are still on the list. It's always good to have extra resources (mana) and not use them than to need them and not have them.

    You'll feel the pressure on your mana bar in hard modes though, which it sounds like your friend does not do.

    With that said, gemming for int is still the right way to go, you should have plenty of crit from your gear and there's a point where it's not really worth it anymore, it's easy to get close to 40% raid buffed and that's all you need.

    Looks like you took peoples advice with your talent build too, looks perfect now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relina
    I personally use the following spec, and gem a ton of haste (like 560 ish) which allows me to drop gheal bombs at 1.4 seconds with Borrowed Time and I rarely use Fheal anymore.
    You really spend an extra ~1.2 seconds of GCD time along with the 666 mana of a shield to get your "1.4 second GHeal bomb". Flash heal comes standard at around 1.2 seconds, uses WAY less mana, and crits more often on lower health targets, all without the need of "pumping" it up with a shield cast before hand (using time and mana). So really, your 1.4 second GHeals actually cost 1780 mana and take ~2.5 seconds to cast. Now, if every GHeal you throw out is not an emergency heal and every shield you throw out to make that GHeal fast gets used, then it's kinda worth it. Not likely though. This style isn't efficient when it comes to having to cast multiple heals in a row, which isn't good for hardmodes.

    EX - <PIE CHART> US TOP 10 Check 'em out http://piechart-guild.com/

  7. #7

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    I gemmed for int all the way. Disc doesn't spam heal the tank only, there's more than enough time to shield other people, throw a PoH and so on. Having higher mana pool allows you stunts like shielding the whole raid and such.
    Essentially, you can just pw:s > penance the tank but you're dead weight if you don't help out other healers.

    I got 2x t8.5 (healing one) and bunch of ilvl 226 items, I'm sitting at 44% holy crit raid buffed without a single crit gem. Crit vs int = int wins in my opinion.

  8. #8

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    Not to even mention how having an asininely huge mana pool helps out on General.

  9. #9

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    Intellect.

    /thread

  10. #10

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    Depends on your surv. & role in raid.

    If you are more of a backup healer in 25m, crit would make more sense because of DA procs & keeping inspiration up on all tanks.

    If you are responsible for MT + raid healing = 2m healing hard modes in 10m, as we do, intellect would make more sense, since PoH & some pre-shielding will burn your mana fastly.

  11. #11

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by emsofaca
    Depends on your surv. & role in raid.

    If you are more of a backup healer in 25m, crit would make more sense because of DA procs & keeping inspiration up on all tanks.

    If you are responsible for MT + raid healing = 2m healing hard modes in 10m, as we do, intellect would make more sense, since PoH & some pre-shielding will burn your mana fastly.
    Except with divine intellect and Kings, Intellect gives quite a fair chunk of spellcrit too. As Discipline you really shouldn't ever have to gem raw crit rating. Ever.
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  12. #12

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    To the OP: your fellow disc priest was correct to a point. If you are not having mana issues, there are better choices than gemming pure int. But the choice of gemming crit is not a good one.

    If you look at a typical WorldofLogs for a Disc priest, by far the majority of the healing done comes from PWS. As a result, the best way to gem for throughput would be to gem SP, not crit.

  13. #13

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by cruxxy
    To the OP: your fellow disc priest was correct to a point. If you are not having mana issues, there are better choices than gemming pure int. But the choice of gemming crit is not a good one.

    If you look at a typical WorldofLogs for a Disc priest, by far the majority of the healing done comes from PWS. As a result, the best way to gem for throughput would be to gem SP, not crit.
    I don't know about the majority, my absorbs are usually ~40% (sometimes 50%) of my healing and that's including Aegis. I don't think anyone does 60%+ of their healing with just PW:S.

    Regardless, you're right about gemming for throughput, SP wins at that.

    Int is still amazing when you take into account the % modifiers being applied to it, Mental Strength and Kings. Large mana pools (which means better regen too) are just too good of a thing to have on Hard Modes and most of the harder normal Ulduar fights.

    EX - <PIE CHART> US TOP 10 Check 'em out http://piechart-guild.com/

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
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    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    Get to 35% crit raidbuffed and then stack Int.

  15. #15

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    I think cruxxy meant a plurality.

    So, stacking INT is the rule. You never, ever want to OOM. You want to be able to throw shields whenever you damn well please (as you should)... you want to be able to toss out PoH w/o fear.

    That being said, if you find your SP lacking for doing your primary job (tank healing), and your NOT running out of mana... then SP should be your "leet gear level" gem. Honestly, if you gear was good going into Ulduar, and you've gotten pieces out of it, you shouldn't need to think about this switch until starting Hardmodes. I would only start considering switching to SP after you have a good idea of how your mana pool stands up to all the fights in Ulduar (including General).

  16. #16

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    Yes, plurality. Thank you for the correction

    The problem is I think many Disc priests still think that if they finish an encounter without using shadowfiend and a half-full mana bar, they're doing well. And so they gem for Int and Int and more Int.

    The correct goal should be to maximize your throughput stats and you SHOULD be draining your mana pool. Plan to use shadowfiend, HoH and a mana pot. If you can cast all the spells you need to, the boss is dead and your mana bar is about empty, you've found the right balance. If you end the fight with a near full mana bar, regem/gear for more throughput. This means more SP gems, Lightweave instead of Darkweave, and consider the hit-less "DPS" caster items: those with haste+crit but no spirit.

    Of course, this applies to the most demanding healing encounters. I would put hard Vezax in a different category due to the unique mechanics of the encounter.

  17. #17

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    I don't know about the majority, my absorbs are usually ~40% (sometimes 50%) of my healing and that's including Aegis. I don't think anyone does 60%+ of their healing with just PW:S.
    Gonna have to disagree. Our last yogg kill I had a tad over 1 million absorbed and only like 620k healing (top healer was slightly over 1m). Which puts me over 60%. On our last 25 man XT hard mode my numbers were similar. Yeah that absorbed number includes aegis, but the healing number includes my PW:S glyph.

    Also on our 10man hard mode general kill, I solo healed till 30% when the add came and half my "healing" was in my shields.

    Oh and on topic, dont gem for crit you need the mana. That is of course unless you never plan on doing hard modes and then you could leave the sockets empty and it wont matter much. Only done FL and XT on 25 man, but XT takes a crapload of mana and if you arent using that much then you are a waste of space imo. And in many of the harder 10man hard modes like knock knock knock freya, it takes a crapload of mana. I seriously dont see how you could do those fights with an under 20k mana pool (the size some one else mentioned before) as a disc priest.

  18. #18

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausagefan
    Intellect.

    /thread
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  19. #19

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou
    Gonna have to disagree. Our last yogg kill I had a tad over 1 million absorbed and only like 620k healing (top healer was slightly over 1m). Which puts me over 60%. On our last 25 man XT hard mode my numbers were similar. Yeah that absorbed number includes aegis, but the healing number includes my PW:S glyph.

    Also on our 10man hard mode general kill, I solo healed till 30% when the add came and half my "healing" was in my shields.

    Oh and on topic, dont gem for crit you need the mana. That is of course unless you never plan on doing hard modes and then you could leave the sockets empty and it wont matter much. Only done FL and XT on 25 man, but XT takes a crapload of mana and if you arent using that much then you are a waste of space imo. And in many of the harder 10man hard modes like knock knock knock freya, it takes a crapload of mana. I seriously dont see how you could do those fights with an under 20k mana pool (the size some one else mentioned before) as a disc priest.
    Well you put there as an example two aoe-intensive fights. However generally my absorb-healing rate is 50-50

  20. #20

    Re: Gemming Int or Crit for Disc Priest

    Seeing as you guys seem to know what you're talking about.
    How does my gear and spec look to you?

    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...mmer&n=Thrilir


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