MM - Glyph question

[Infs]

Ok, I have a question about MM glyphing. I currently use Chimera, Serpent and Kill shot. I've read about Steady shot glyph being better if u are higher than a certain amount of ms, can you guys tell me what the amount of ms is after which Steady shot glyphing gets better?

Also, I would like to know the mechanics behind this, if someone would care to explain.

Oh yea, mayb usefull to mention, i'm usually around 150 ms. So would you recommend switching to Steady shot or sticking with Chimera?
After I get one of the ArP trinkets i'll make the switch to an ArP build, making Steady shot an obvious must.

Armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...+Nether&n=Infs

[Sakon]

no movement fights steady>chimera, movementfights chimera>steady
you should get steady to 1,5secs cast time, thats perfect for all those builds, of cousre you get with improved hawk without problems to this castime, altough you'd like to have it always at 1,5s

[Infs]

no movement fights steady>chimera, movementfights chimera>steady
you should get steady to 1,5secs cast time, thats perfect for all those builds, of cousre you get with improved hawk without problems to this castime, altough you'd like to have it always at 1,5s

Didn't quite answer my question, i know all this. Also not likely to switch glyphs 10 times every week..

[Xyllo]

the best is 'chimera, serpent and aimed", tried trueshot and killshot, but they are worthless compering to this 3

[Kalti]

I use Hunter's Mark, Kill Shot and Serpent. Our raid has three hunters.

[Wadadux]

I think you should change Chimera to Steady. I don't know what the latency you need is, but if you have enough ArP, doing the ArP rotation would be best. You don't want the Chimera glyph without the Aimed Shot glyph either. Usually you follow Chimera Shot with Aimed Shot, so with a 10s cd following a 9s cd you will get messed up on your 2nd shot rotation.

[Paws]

the best is 'chimera, serpent and aimed", tried trueshot and killshot, but they are worthless compering to this 3

Chimera, Serpent, yes, but aimed? I tried aimed and in my case I noticed an increase in burst DPS throughout the encounter but a fairly consistent 3% drop in damage over the course of several tests. My argument against aimed shot is that it will never be in your top 4 shots, so why boost it? Serpent and Chimera work together to increase the base damage and frequency of Chimera Shot, your #1 special shot. I personally use TSA or Hawk, depending on the situation, hawk being the better DPS in most situations.

In a normal MM agility build (as well as an ArP build), your auto shot will be your primary damage shot every time (barring unusual circumstances) so increasing its frequency by using the Hawk glyph (+6% of IAoTH effect) will increase the amount of damage it can output over time.

I guess at a hard haste cap, Aimed Shot might be beneficial, but even TSA is more effective in my experience. The TSA glyph causes more crits which increases the damage that you "pursue". In an MM build, Aimed shot is your second-to-last priority shot and so on several occasions is likely being pushed off for other shots on the majority of 3.1 fights, thus decreasing its cooldown by 2 seconds does not help as much as increasing the crit chance by 10% of every Aimed Shot that you actually do fire. If you're using ISS correctly, you should be doing everything you can to proc it prior to using Chimera Shot, not aimed shot. So if you're filling with steadys and your Aimed comes off cooldown, you're going to waste your IIS proc on it rather than chimera.

I just feel like the aimed shot glyph forces you to utilize aimed shot more in the rotation.

I can see on a stand still fight why it seems better and why your DPS seems higher, but I assure you your overall dmg output is depreciated with the aimed shot glyph - it is intended for PvP.

Paws

[Rilgon]

I have to concur with the disagreement on the Aimed glyph. I am an absolute diehard user of the Chimera glyph because my latency is nothing (55ms on average). The fact that 9s is divisible by 1.5 puts it smack dab in a GCD rotation, and if I can hit it as it comes off, it's a massive DPS boost.

If your latency is much higher - I'd put the bar at about 150-180ms - then you'll be best with either Kill, Steady, or Hawk. Actually, having worked on Mimi and Yogg lately, I almost want to drop the Steady glyph from my set (ChS/StS/SrS) and get the Kill glyph.

[Soltari]

I use Hunter's Mark, Kill Shot and Serpent. Our raid has three hunters.

That's what I use as well.
From what I've heard the Chimera shot glyph is for the most part worthless due to latency(I play on a wireless connection). I'm not sure what's changed since then, but IIRC from EJ the boost in dps from glyphs looks something like this for MM:
(If you aren't the mark bitch)

Serpent sting>Kill shot>Hawk/Steady/Aimed>Chimera

[Rilgon]

Well, again, that all depends on latency.

For me, assuming buffed mark elsewhere, I show Serpent > Chimera > Steady = Kill > the rest.

Obviously on a fight like Yoggy or Mimi, Kill will shine more. Probably Vezax, too. I'm considering making the switch full-time...

[Soltari]

Well, again, that all depends on latency.

For me, assuming buffed mark elsewhere, I show Serpent > Chimera > Steady = Kill > the rest.

Obviously on a fight like Yoggy or Mimi, Kill will shine more. Probably Vezax, too. I'm considering making the switch full-time...

Or razorscale/decon/hodir/freya/thorim?

[Rilgon]

Yeah, it's probably on par or better on ALL the Watchers, now that I think about it.

Meh, I'll get an inscribalingadingdong to make one before Ulduar tonight.

[Selphious]

So I'd just like to know... maybe I'm completely missing something here, but why does latency matter? Of course it adds time to your cast, but it does it regardless of the cooldown, so you're still gaining a second, are you not? You wait 9 seconds, it's coming off cooldown, you're wailing on the button, and it takes an extra half second or so to cast. Does the same without the glyph.

I just want to know how latency affects the glyphs that concern cooldowns' usefulness.

[Rilgon]

If the added latency of the GCDs between your Chimeras adds up to more than a second, the Glyph's benefit is eaten by the latency and is nullified.

Even at 55ms average, I still only see about .6 seconds of "real" benefit in rotation simulations. Much worse, and that .6 seconds vanishes altogether.

[Anium]

I have to concur with the disagreement on the Aimed glyph. I am an absolute diehard user of the Chimera glyph because my latency is nothing (55ms on average). The fact that 9s is divisible by 1.5 puts it smack dab in a GCD rotation, and if I can hit it as it comes off, it's a massive DPS boost.

If your latency is much higher - I'd put the bar at about 150-180ms - then you'll be best with either Kill, Steady, or Hawk. Actually, having worked on Mimi and Yogg lately, I almost want to drop the Steady glyph from my set (ChS/StS/SrS) and get the Kill glyph.

My advise to you is lose ChS glyph for Kill shot glyph. SrS and Kill glyph is a must for MM imo. The question is whether you want to have ChS or Sts glpyh. I roll with kill/sts/srs. I don't think the 1 sec less in ChS glyph can be compared to the 10% increase when using Sts glyph seeing as SrS is always active as MM. Obviously in the expansion and I quote :


Last but not least, steady shot: " With the nerf to steady shot in the expansion, this shot sunk from the top of the priority list to the bottom. This is now our least used damage ability. Its casting time and lack of scaling really doesn’t make it an attractive ability. Use it as filler, only when everything else is on cooldown. If you see that a higher damage ability will come off cooldown before your steady shot casting would have finished, don’t start to cast a new steady shot. For the reason mentioned a couple of times before, you always want to have your higher damage abilities on cooldown. "

But if your rotation is running slicker than oil and your happy with your overall dps, don't change it.

[Selphious]

If the added latency of the GCDs between your Chimeras adds up to more than a second, the Glyph's benefit is eaten by the latency and is nullified.

Even at 55ms average, I still only see about .6 seconds of "real" benefit in rotation simulations. Much worse, and that .6 seconds vanishes altogether.

Yeah, that's what I see everyone say, and that's what I was questioning lol. I know how the latency affects how long it takes to cast, I'm not questioning that; I'm questioning why does it matter when it comes to the glyph? Say you have bad latency and it takes you 11 seconds to cast without the glyph, and 10 with it... You're still saving a second. But like I said, I may just be missing something.

[Rilgon]

Well, let's look at it like this. Let's say you have 120ms latency.

0.00s: Push Chimera
0.12s: Server gets command, Chimera fires (cools down at 9.12s)
1.62s: GCD up, push Aimed
1.74s: Server gets command, Aimed fires
3.24s: GCD up, push Arcane
3.36s: Server gets command, Arcane fires
4.86s: GCD up, push Steady
4.98s: Server gets command, Steady begins cast
6.48s: Steady finishes server-side
6.60s: Steady finishes client-side, push Steady
6.72s: Server gets command, Steady begins cast
8.22s: Steady finishes server-side
8.34s: Steady finishes client-side

Here, you have to choose - do you wait the .66 seconds for Chimera to cool down... or do you fire something else? If you do fire something else (another Steady, since Arcane is down until 9.36s)

8.34s: Push Steady
8.46s: Server gets command, Steady begins cast
9.96s: Steady finishes server-side
10.08s: Steady finishes client-side, push Chimera

Chimera cooled down at 9.12s, but you couldn't hit it until 10.08s - you only gained four hundredths of a second from that glyph in that case.

[Selphious]

Well that's because you're casting Steady Shot; that had nothing to do with latency.

[Rilgon]

Right, but the extra .24 seconds on each Steady adds up. (both ways - the client won't let you force something in on a cast most times)

[Selphious]

It's still only .12 for steady shot. I know what you're thinking; .12 at the beginning and .12 at the end, but once you get that first cast off it's going normally. That, I'm unsure of; I could be wrong.

Anyways, we're not talking about just latency; I don't care for its concern with steady shot casts. I'm talking specifically about the usage with glyphs that reduce cooldowns.