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  1. #1

    Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Hi Priests! I'm a resto druid and 2nd in line for Val'anyr. Our GM who is a Priest has 20 fragments. He wants to go Discipline(currently his offspec) once he gets the mace. My question is, why would you do that?

    I guess it's pretty cool flavor since disc priests shield alot. But the problem here is that his HPS and "healing done" is MUCH lower when he is discipline. No need to school me on what Disc priests are, I already know they are very effective with shields and it does not show up on recount. That's not what I'm here to talk about.

    Val'anyr works by getting your proc to trigger and then 15% of your total healing is converted into a stacking bubble on whatever target you heal. So my question is, why go disc once you get this mace if your healing is lower in Disc? Val'anyr procs off of bubbles being cast but does not count absorbed damage as healing contributing to your mace bubble.

    Only thing I can think of is that you can watch for your procs and then spam your heals only and lay off the shields until the proc is over. But is that effective, thats my basic question.
    Why not you paid your $15 right?

  2. #2

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Because Val'Anyr's proc is similar to Disc priests' Divine Aegis.

    When disc priest crits with any healing spell, 30% of it (healing or overhealing) goes into a bubble. So his choice of spec with Val'Anyr is more than good seeing that T9 bonus increases Divine Aegis effect by additional 10% making it 40% in total.

    Having a discipline priest healing guarantees you tons of absorbed damage trough Aegis, PW:S and Val'Anyr. Basically, you'd see a lot of damage not happening on people he heals.

    Now, this topic might get derailed and discussion will go the wrong way but trust me on this one - HPS means nothing, literally. Also, there are tools such as worldoflogs.com where you can see how much damage disc prevents (it gets accounted into healing) and that number is really really high.

    So, I must say, your GM is doing the right choice seeing the sinergy between disc talents and mace's proc.

  3. #3
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    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    In terms of pure damage mitigated by the proc and who will get the most benefit from the proc, disc comes up with the lowest. Due to having the lowest direct output of all healers.

    The mace is better used as holy if anything. Of course it's still useful and you will get the benefit from any healer who takes it, but disc gains the least benefit and really the only reason a disc priest should take it over another healer is for it's itemisation.

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  4. #4

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Yet another person who doesn't think outside of the box..

    I'll try to put it simple - a holy priest can do 20k Gheal crits. A disc priest does 14k Gheal crits. In raid environment, there's more than 1 MT healer usually and there's overhealing. If tank lost 10k HP, and holy priest heals for 20K, the difference is lost. If a disc does the same, the "lost" healing is 4k but since it's a crit 30% of 14k -> bubble. With Val'Anyr you'd create another bubble, which would be 15% of 14k.

    If it was a holy priest with the mace > bubble = 3000.
    If it was a disc priest with the mace > bubble = 2100 + 4200. With T9 it'd be 2100 from val'anyr and 5600 from Aegis.

    Which means, if holy priest heals + val'anyr heal the tank = absorption is 3k per 20k gheal, but if Disc does it absorption is 6300 per gheal crit.

    When it comes to raid healing, usually the damage isn't incredibly huge that it decimates the raid so bubbles from val'anyr aren't make it or break it there. However, when it comes to MT healing, things like these help. Sometimes, they can account for taking 1 healer less and having only 1 disc or 1 paladin healing the tank doing hard modes.

    I hope this gets read before another person who values HPS over anything else jumps in with "it's the best for xyz" comment.

    It rocks on any healer, but discipline has the best synergy with it.


  5. #5

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Yet another person who doesn't think outside of the box..

    I'll try to put it simple - a holy priest can do 20k Gheal crits. A disc priest does 14k Gheal crits. In raid environment, there's more than 1 MT healer usually and there's overhealing. If tank lost 10k HP, and holy priest heals for 20K, the difference is lost. If a disc does the same, the "lost" healing is 4k but since it's a crit 30% of 14k -> bubble. With Val'Anyr you'd create another bubble, which would be 15% of 14k.

    If it was a holy priest with the mace > bubble = 3000.
    If it was a disc priest with the mace > bubble = 2100 + 4200. With T9 it'd be 2100 from val'anyr and 5600 from Aegis.

    Which means, if holy priest heals + val'anyr heal the tank = absorption is 3k per 20k gheal, but if Disc does it absorption is 6300 per gheal crit.

    When it comes to raid healing, usually the damage isn't incredibly huge that it decimates the raid so bubbles from val'anyr aren't make it or break it there. However, when it comes to MT healing, things like these help. Sometimes, they can account for taking 1 healer less and having only 1 disc or 1 paladin healing the tank doing hard modes.

    I hope this gets read before another person who values HPS over anything else jumps in with "it's the best for xyz" comment.

    It rocks on any healer, but discipline has the best synergy with it.

    The mistake you're making is adding the absorb from the Divine Aegis bubble to the Val'Anyr bubble.

    You're not supposed to do that. A priest without Val'anyr will proc the Divine Aegis bubble too, so its moot.

    The only real factor to determine the value of Val'Anyr is how much healing one can do. And a disc priest does lowest healing of all classes, so he gets the least benefit from Val'Anyr.

  6. #6

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    it is also pure win as a pvp weapon when he speccs disc.

  7. #7

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Phyrion
    The mistake you're making is adding the absorb from the Divine Aegis bubble to the Val'Anyr bubble.

    You're not supposed to do that. A priest without Val'anyr will proc the Divine Aegis bubble too, so its moot.

    The only real factor to determine the value of Val'Anyr is how much healing one can do. And a disc priest does lowest healing of all classes, so he gets the least benefit from Val'Anyr.
    Ya this is true, it would be dumb for a priest to go disc with this.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3-N9zoI5c Amazing video of 60+ devilsaurs raiding Undercity!


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  8. #8

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Yes, I too think that if a priest were to get that weapon he would not want to go disc. The reason is that valanyr converts 15% of your healing (on proc) into a bubble. A bubble / divine aegis / whatever, is 0 healing. Zero. Math lesson, 15% of zero is ?

    In order for it to be viable, the priest would have to switch to healing (GHeal, FHeal, Prayer), and that's not a disc niche.

    Just my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark
    I dont know why everyone expects thing to be rebuilt after a cataclysm. Last time i checked, earthquakes dont fix roofs.

  9. #9

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Asgard
    Yes, I too think that if a priest were to get that weapon he would not want to go disc. The reason is that valanyr converts 15% of your healing (on proc) into a bubble. A bubble / divine aegis / whatever, is 0 healing. Zero. Math lesson, 15% of zero is ?

    In order for it to be viable, the priest would have to switch to healing (GHeal, FHeal, Prayer), and that's not a disc niche.

    Just my opinion.
    I don't see why this isn't obvious to everyone. It's pure common sense.

    And come on, it's still usefull for holy priests, holy paladins, resto druids and resto shamans.

    That's 4 classes/specs. I can name at least 3 legendaries that were useful for less people. Thori'Dal, Warglaives, Thunderfury. Sulfuras too come to think of it.

    I think so far only Atiesh was usefull for for more classes or specs, because it came with different stats for different classes.

  10. #10

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    the total amount absorbed by the blessing of ancient kings is equal to the total amount healed by the healer during the window that the proc is active, if you

    This amount and who the heals are on are the ONLY things that matter.

    the best options for the mace are a holy priest or druid , which gives alot of extra damage absorbed to the raid, and a Holy Paladin, which gives alot of extra damage absorbed to the tank,

    The total amount of healing done by a disc priest during a blessing proc is MUCH MUCH lower than the healing from any other healing class during the proc, therefore the total effect of the proc is MUCH MUCH lower also,

    Disc priests are excelent and usefull healers, they excel at mitigating damage, but their mitigation abillities are not noticed by Val'anyr any more than they are noticed by recount or other healing meters.

    Because of this Disc priests are the worst possible choice for the mace.


  11. #11

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Phyrion
    The mistake you're making is adding the absorb from the Divine Aegis bubble to the Val'Anyr bubble.

    You're not supposed to do that. A priest without Val'anyr will proc the Divine Aegis bubble too, so its moot.

    The only real factor to determine the value of Val'Anyr is how much healing one can do. And a disc priest does lowest healing of all classes, so he gets the least benefit from Val'Anyr.
    Tbh i don't understand your point :S A tank with both Val'anyr and Devine Aegis, is alot more likely to survive than one with just Devine Aegis or just the Val'Anyr bubble.

    Disc priest may do the lowest healing, but they are bubble gods, So to me, it makes more sense having a Disc priest have it, then another class, altho i will admit, all healers, will get a huge buff from having it.
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  12. #12

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    priest in PvP with this would be fuck :-X
    Waiting on Cata
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  13. #13

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Phyrion - care to explain why is my logic wrong? Val'Anyr actually does stack with Divine Aegis. I never said Divine Aegis is healing.

    Divine Aegis: http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47515

    Critical heals create a protective shield on the target, absorbing 30% of the amount healed. Lasts 12 sec.

    Protection of the Ancient Kings:

    Your healing spells have a chance to cause Blessing of Ancient Kings for 15 seconds allowing your heals to shield the target absorbing damage equal to 15% of the amount healed.

    So, if you pull off a 20k greater heal as a holy priest (with the blessing of ancient kings up), you shield your tank for 3k at that heal alone. I am not talking about other heals.

    If you pull off the same greater heal crit as disc, it'll be at 14k -> 30% goes to aegis (40% with T9), 15% goes to val'anyr's bubble. Feel free to point me where I'm wrong and elaborate why since these bubbles do stack.

    Once again, HPS has nothing to do with this mace or healing in general, I have no idea why some people are so dense to judge stuff by recount.

  14. #14

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager
    Tbh i don't understand your point :S A tank with both Val'anyr and Devine Aegis, is alot more likely to survive than one with just Devine Aegis or just the Val'Anyr bubble.

    Disc priest may do the lowest healing, but they are bubble gods, So to me, it makes more sense having a Disc priest have it, then another class, altho i will admit, all healers, will get a huge buff from having it.
    Did you even read the rest of the replies?

    I don't get people like you. The evidence is laid out right here, and you choose to ignore it.

  15. #15

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Phyrion - care to explain why is my logic wrong? Val'Anyr actually does stack with Divine Aegis. I never said Divine Aegis is healing.

    Divine Aegis: http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47515

    Critical heals create a protective shield on the target, absorbing 30% of the amount healed. Lasts 12 sec.

    Protection of the Ancient Kings:

    Your healing spells have a chance to cause Blessing of Ancient Kings for 15 seconds allowing your heals to shield the target absorbing damage equal to 15% of the amount healed.

    So, if you pull off a 20k greater heal as a holy priest (with the blessing of ancient kings up), you shield your tank for 3k at that heal alone. I am not talking about other heals.

    If you pull off the same greater heal crit as disc, it'll be at 14k -> 30% goes to aegis (40% with T9), 15% goes to val'anyr's bubble. Feel free to point me where I'm wrong and elaborate why since these bubbles do stack.

    Once again, HPS has nothing to do with this mace or healing in general, I have no idea why some people are so dense to judge stuff by recount.
    Your first mistake is that a disc priest will NEVER use Gheal. If he does, he's just bad. I won't elaborate on the rest, because your math is right.

  16. #16

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    It works well with any healing spec.
    You should give it to whoever deserves it the most.


    There, I said it, now stop making these topics.

  17. #17

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    It doesn't just have to do with the amount healed. It has to do also with the probability of the shields being actually used to mitigate damage. A Disc priest will be putting the shields on a tank. Sure some fights have raid damage, but where the proc is really going to shine imo, is where tanks get gibbed by massive amounts of damage. On top of this, Disc has a reactive healing style and can throttle throughput fairly well by adjusting rotation.

    In the end, all things being equal, I think it would probably be best for a holy paladin, but I'd want the person with Val'anyr to be on the MT in a lot of situations.

    Also, with dual specs, there is no reason for a priest with this mace not to switch specs between disc and holy depending on the encounter.

    A holy priest on a fight where the tank takes huge hits is miscast MT healing just because of the proc and throughput. Disc would be better in this situation. On fights where aoe shields would be helped, sure it's best to go holy, but the key is flexibility and maximizing effectiveness.

  18. #18

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Your healing spells have a chance to cause Blessing of Ancient Kings for 15 seconds allowing your heals to shield the target absorbing damage equal to 15% of the amount healed (and not "absorbed").
    Healadin : heals
    Restodruid : heals
    Restosham : heals
    Holypriest : heals
    Discpriest : ABSORBS

    You'll put ABSORBS on your target which WON'T trigger Val'anyr's proc ! The fact that discpriest's PW:S is improved won't improve AT ALL Val'Anyr's proc.

    Yes, it's the BiS healing mace for disc priest, the proc is still awesome, but a priest with it should spec Holy except if he's a retard, and it shouldn't be given to a discpriest. THIS IS IT. Don't try to think when you can't even read a tooltip.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark
    I dont know why everyone expects thing to be rebuilt after a cataclysm. Last time i checked, earthquakes dont fix roofs.

  19. #19

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    fail logic is fail

    more hps = more damage preveted by val'anyr
    less hps = less damage prevented by val'anyr

    that's why: disc priest + val'anyr = total shit.

    give it to your holy paladin


  20. #20

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager
    Tbh i don't understand your point :S A tank with both Val'anyr and Devine Aegis, is alot more likely to survive than one with just Devine Aegis or just the Val'Anyr bubble.

    Disc priest may do the lowest healing, but they are bubble gods, So to me, it makes more sense having a Disc priest have it, then another class, altho i will admit, all healers, will get a huge buff from having it.
    Dumbing it down for very very stupid people, you can have a disc priest in your raid throwing out divine aegis and still have another healer with val anyr, suppose you are particularly worried about tank healing especially. Suppose you have two consistant raiding tank healers a disc priest and a Holy Paladin,

    You can give the Paladin or the priest valanyr

    Scenario one, you give the priest Valanyr, the priest puts divine aegis up as well as some crappy bubbles from the valanyr proc

    this is equal to Divine Aegis + Crappy bubbles

    Scenario two, you give the mace to the holy Paladin, The disc priest still puts up divine aegis, and the paladin puts up some really powerful bubbles from valanyr,

    this is equal to Divine Aegis + Awesome Bubbles

    so lets compare

    Scenario 1: Divine Aegis + Crappy Bubbles
    Scenario 2: Divine Aegis + Awesome Bubbles

    Now using algebra you can subtract Divine Aegis from both sides

    Scenario 1: Crappy Bubbles
    Scenario 2: Awesome Bubbles

    Which one would you rather have in your raid.

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