Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
6
... LastLast
  1. #61

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Boznian
    so the shield doesnt 'add' to the proc with the mace...BUT, its still a 8k shield, this gives priests the 4 set bonus. You cant not count the 8k shield from a pw:s coz at the end it is still adding to the reduction on the tank so it must still be counted for as a 'heal' in itself.

    The Valanyr is an 'absorption shield'.

    With disc priests, with divine aegis at t9 this will already be at 40%. a pw:s on top of this absorption will be another 7k shield on top of divine aegis. In 15 seconds worth of the proc, a PI on the priest, and all this other mitigation on the tank already, thats a LOT of dmg absorbed so less qq about disc priests not 'pumping out as much as a holy paladin' and disregarding are actual absorption heal which is one of our primary spells.

    tbh tho, we still got the o shit button wen there is lots of aoe and the mace procs to get in a divine hymn and see some nice shields all over the raid
    you are absolutely right an 8 k shield is in fact better than an 8k heal, however we arent discussing the relative merits of heals and absorbs, we are discussing the effect of absorbs on the val'anyr proc, and the answer is, it has none, absolutely no effect with regard to the val'anyr proc.

    also the val'anyr shield is NOT power word shield and does not proc the 4 piece t8 bonus.

  2. #62

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Might be a bit off-topic, but for people wanting to know "exactly" (the addon isn't 100% accurate) how effective a disc priest is with his shields in terms of preventing damage:

    http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a...edabsorbs.aspx

    It's an addon to Recount and gives you an extra tab like Healing Done or Healing Received with Guessed Absorbs.
    Quite nice to keep track of how much your Divine Aegis absorbs compared to your PW:S for example.

    Sorry if this has been posted before.
    "If you need to add '10char' to be able to post, don't bother posting at all."


  3. #63

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    It is better in a holy priest hand. This is common sense, but meh.. let's get it obvious.

    Not to cause any problems with the logic, i will assume that holy priest=disc priest.

    Let's make it an example and say,

    A holy priest makes you survive through a constant damage in the heat of battle for 5 minutes. During this a holy priest uses heals mostly, GH, FH, CoH, PoH, Renew and blablablablabla... This is the way she does it. You take the damage, you get heal, you survive. Nothing more, nothing less.

    A disc priest makes you survive through a constant damage in the heat of battle for 5 minutes. During this, a disc priest uses "damage absorbs" mostly, PW:S, Divine Aegis (this procs through heals i know) and blablabla.. This is the way she does it. You "do not" take all the damage, you absorb most of it, so without getting healed "a lot", you survive. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Legendary procs off from "heals" not "absorbs". So as a disc priest, you do not heal as much as a holy priest do. This is why you seem low on healing meters, it does not mean that you are less important, it just means you mitigate the damage instead of healing it.

    If a holy priest gets this, she will use the proc more than a disc. She will be healing and healing, and healing in the battle, thus making strong strong strong bubbles, bubbles, bubbles everywhere. A disc priest will be shielding shielding and healing when needed. So if a disc takes it, she will be healing less, creating weaker bubbles and so on..

    I am pretty sure it is clear and simple enough.. so this fight will not continue further.
    I participated in the legendary BACON thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    That wouldn't work, Orc's and Human's have a different number of chromosomes.
    WoW: The only fictional world where chromosomes matter.

  4. #64

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    It depends if you want the bubble on your MT or raid.

  5. #65

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    buble and adsorb dynamic give they're best on tanks ( exp considering the short time duration of mace buble if not triggered and/or refreshed ).
    Mace proc have 45 sec of internal cooldown....
    a disco can use his max healing ( cause buble is done even from overhealing, only the proc is active from generated healing ) during that buff...
    so discussing about who will have the "best buble" from it is completely worthless if we want to look at the hps generated only.

    Now we could discuss about who will activate the most mace proc...that could be a worth discussion probably..but let's say...with high proc chance even a disco will probably have ( or nearlythere ) the max uptime, considering pom is always around..and considering that buble can be triggered even from pws glyph.

    proc of the mace is 10% chance...
    with pom going around ( a disco have it goign ofc ), with penance always on cd, and with pws glyph that can trigger it...rly did you think that a disco will have to wait age to see the proc?

    Anyway, assuming that we all agree about the powerfulness of adsorb dynamic on tanks ( and less usefulness on the raid, exp with a short buble duration...that is just 8 sec from the mace ).

    Giving this mace on a raid healer is a fail imho...
    Druid, shaman and holy priest both have higher hps cause both are asked to raidheal...
    They will thn proc the mace effect mroe often than a tank healer...but then they will have 2 choice:

    - make milion of little buble on the raid that will get wasted 90% of the time due to short duration
    - stop whit his normal raid heailng duty only to biuld the higher buble possible on the tank/s

    first case is fail...we all agree i think ( if we are not talking about some rly limited case ofc )
    second case is a fail too...if you stop from your duty..someone need to do that, or that could cause some issue later on.

    Due to that i see that mace rly valuable on the hand of some maintank healer ( so pala or disco ), that will probably have less proc ( tbh not that mutch less ), but that can throw off the max from it without changing what he's asked to do normaly.

    There is no way a disc priest can put out 130k healing in 15 seconds.
    rly, did someone think that when the mace proc the healer should stop and start to build the max buble possible on the tank?
    if you think so, then a holy ( don't want to talk about the class ) should put out 130k healing every 45 sec....and the mana ?
    or he should keep doing what he do normaly and use also this new effect ?
    the 130k healign limit is there to not make it too powerfull on a scenario with more than one mace in raid...not to ask the healer to fullfill the buble every time.

  6. #66

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Sphyx
    It's all bull. The Shield from Val'anyr is limited to 20k. So as long as the caster is able to pull of ~130k raw heal in 15 Seconds, there is no "My Val'anyr Shields are better than yours!" Nuff said!
    Actually, this is raw bull. The shield is limited to 20k at any one time. If a 20k shield gets used up, you can slap another on if you have time.

  7. #67

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Remember this bubble is not created by healing, its created by healing+overhealing, which actually makes it really incredible for paladins, who do a massive amount of overhealing, in fact they are balanced around their overhealing being completely wasted, any mechanic which makes their overhealing into healing is amazing.

  8. #68

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Honestly, if your GM wants to go disc after he gets the mace then hes pretty retarded. Tell him he will recieve a better benefit if hes holy then he will if he is discipline bec the liklihood of a disc priest casting large heals in a raid is slim (if that priest is smart). In the end hes going to play it however he wants, but he wont be getting close to the effectiveness of the mace as discipline.

    If there was a choice between giving it to a disc priest and any other of the more viable HEALING classes/specs (not damage mitigation specs) a discipline priest would be the LAST choice. Resto druids, Holy paladins, holy priests and resto shamans would be my priority for this mace without a doubt as they would bring much more to the table along with the disc priests absorbs

    As someone posted before....Awesome valnyr bubbles + disc priest mitigation bubbles = a shit ton better then crappy disc priest valanyr procs.

    If hes thinking about the raid first, he would remain holy with that mace. If hes thinking about it for himself (pvp) then thats that...lol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  9. #69

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Asgard, I feel bad for you, really. You bring up extremely valid points, with simple math in hopes that even the average forum user here would understand it.

    Disc Priest+Absorbed Damage = Large HPS
    Dist Priest = Low HPS
    Holy Paladin = Large HPS

    Unfortunately, the mace does not take your Absorbed damage, thus making:

    Disc Priest = Low HPS
    ;
    Large HPS > Low HPS
    ;
    Holy Paladin > Disc Priest

    Just using a Holy Paladin as an example, just hope that the disc priest has 100% attendance and is going to stick around for awhile, they should be the last on the food chain for this great weapon.

  10. #70

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Disc has the lowest healing done so they get the least benefit from the proc. However... the proc is not the greatest thing since sliced bread. It does not MAKE the healer. A disc priest MT healing with the proc is still way better at MT healing than a holy priest. Ones spec cannot be decided by one proc.

    There are really two choices in who you give it to...

    1 Give it to a MT healer (disc or holy pally) and get added mitigation on the tanks

    2 Give it to a raid healer (Holy priest, shaman, druid) and get added mitigation on the raid.

    You'll get a little more overall mitigation via the proc if its on an aoe healer but I'd value the extra mitigation on the tank a hell of a lot more than on the raid. IMO the best choice would be a holy paladin, second choice disc priest, then all the others. A little extra on the tank or a little extra on the raid. Either way it does not make or break wow as we know it. This one proc is really not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. Changing ones spec and thus the healing lineup all around this one proc is kinda silly. Everyone benefits from it.

    Drunk toddlers in a dryer

  11. #71

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyn
    Asgard, I feel bad for you, really. You bring up extremely valid points, with simple math in hopes that even the average forum user here would understand it.

    Disc Priest+Absorbed Damage = Large HPS
    Dist Priest = Low HPS
    Holy Paladin = Large HPS

    Unfortunately, the mace does not take your Absorbed damage, thus making:

    Disc Priest = Low HPS
    ;
    Large HPS > Low HPS
    ;
    Holy Paladin > Disc Priest

    Just using a Holy Paladin as an example, just hope that the disc priest has 100% attendance and is going to stick around for awhile, they should be the last on the food chain for this great weapon.

    i disagre with "Disc priest = Low HPS". As when needed i can pump out 3k+ hps on a single tank.
    3k hps + DA + Shield = awesome mitigation.


    first post ever. just wanted to get that off my chest :P
    PEWPEW

  12. #72

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    If you have a paladen you would be stupid to give it to a disc priest for tank healing, if you have a holy priest or druid you would be stupid to give it to a shaman for raid healing, if you want to be able to give it to someone who can raid heal or tank heal depending on the situation than you should give it to a shamen, but thats proabably a bad idea, the fact remains that giving the mace to a disc priest will probably help tank healing less than giving it to a holy priest that starts spamming Greater Heal on the tank when the mace procs, both terrible ideas.

  13. #73

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    both terrible ideas.
    agree on the holy part...not completely on disco part...

    but ofc i think that all agree about pala.....
    they are the best choice for it...other class ( in a perfect situation ) must have less priority

  14. #74

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    just hope that the disc priest has 100% attendance
    I'd agree with that. If he's always in raids, if he's a good healer, and if he's clever enough to switch holy/disc depending on the fights, he should get it. Priests should get it in my opinion because they can indeed fulfill raid healing and tank healing. In a heavy raid damage low tank damage (Mimiron P2 / Thorim's arena), a protadin will get useless with that proc. In a heavy tank damage low raid damage (Vezax / Patchwerk), a Holypriest / Restodruid will not use the proc at its maximum power. Thus priest seem to be *overall* the best choice imo. Still, they will benefit the most of the proc in holy, which does not mean they should stay holy in a patchwerk-like encounter.

    i disagre with "Disc priest = Low HPS". As when needed i can pump out 3k+ hps on a single tank.
    3k hps + DA + Shield = awesome mitigation.
    The thing you've got to understand in here is that you're balanced around your absorbs. Yes you can do good HPS + absorbs. But a Holypal for example will do more HPS to compensate for the absence of absorbs (in world of balancecraft obviously).
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark
    I dont know why everyone expects thing to be rebuilt after a cataclysm. Last time i checked, earthquakes dont fix roofs.

  15. #75

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    My guild actually gave our first mace to a holy priest and second to a paladin, I'm not sure if this was the smartest possible decision but its what we did, im pretty sure the mace on the holy priest helped a lot on firefighter though.

  16. #76
    Mechagnome Rollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    540

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by evoslayer
    I never realized till today how truely stupid some people are.
    im hoping that people in this thread are trolling...but im afraid they are not. i only heal in pvp, and i havent done so since lvl70, but i can still understand what people are EXPLAINING here. its simple math really, and it was broken down earlier by another poster (actually the same poster as i just quoted...) with a simple algebraic equation (shortend/edited for my post).

    Quote Originally Posted by evoslayer
    Scenario one, you give the priest Valanyr; this is equal to Divine Aegis + Crappy bubbles

    Scenario two, you give the mace to the holy Paladin, The disc priest still puts up divine aegis, and the paladin puts up some really powerful bubbles from valanyr; this is equal to Divine Aegis + Awesome Bubbles

    Scenario 1: Divine Aegis + Crappy Bubbles
    Scenario 2: Divine Aegis + Awesome Bubbles

    Now using algebra you can subtract Divine Aegis from both sides

    Scenario 1: Crappy Bubbles
    Scenario 2: Awesome Bubbles

    Which one would you rather have in your raid.
    thank you evoslayer
    wyrd bið ful aræd

  17. #77

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Phyrion
    There is no way a disc priest can put out 130k healing in 15 seconds.
    I'm not sure about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashvael
    And you assume that a target who's getting healed for 130k in those 15 seconds is not taking any damage at all?
    I just wanted to clarify how the procc works. After all, it will procc faster on a disc than on a paladin! It'a a 10% chance on any effective Heal (if the heal is pure overheal, no 10% chance). PWS (glyphed) IS a heal, POM jumps fast, pennance are ticks, and renew will tick on several targets (not to mention gourp heal for 50%, if all targets are actually healed). Hidden cooldown is 45 secs. So it will be like proccs from noble set.
    And it's a Buff on the Player, not on the target. So (as far as I readabout it) it will pop a shield on any target that is healed capping at a sum of 20k.

    I'm NOT saying it's better to any class! On our Raid first is druid, then Pala, then Pala. We decided not on class in ANY way. We see this as a gift, for players who play their class well, and have been a benefit for the raid for a long time. You should do the same.

  18. #78

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Because Val'Anyr's proc is similar to Disc priests' Divine Aegis.

    When disc priest crits with any healing spell, 30% of it (healing or overhealing) goes into a bubble. So his choice of spec with Val'Anyr is more than good seeing that T9 bonus increases Divine Aegis effect by additional 10% making it 40% in total.

    Having a discipline priest healing guarantees you tons of absorbed damage trough Aegis, PW:S and Val'Anyr. Basically, you'd see a lot of damage not happening on people he heals.

    Now, this topic might get derailed and discussion will go the wrong way but trust me on this one - HPS means nothing, literally. Also, there are tools such as worldoflogs.com where you can see how much damage disc prevents (it gets accounted into healing) and that number is really really high.

    So, I must say, your GM is doing the right choice seeing the sinergy between disc talents and mace's proc.
    Indeedit DID get derailed... We have a Disc(main spec) and a Holypal MT healer taking care of him at more or less all times( some fights gets a helping hand from a druid). In our case its a no brainer, the Disc priest is my best friend but i still agreed to give it to the pal.... but as said... this is not the topic in this thread(or shouldnt be but it ended like that)...

    In your case of Disc or Holy would be best(and you aint one of the smart ones that have both) i would choose the Holy. If you take away all the things you normally do, the holy benefits more... period.

  19. #79

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Paladins spam Holy Light, ALOT, and their heals hit two targets, both heals of which can likely proc the buff though I cant be sure, paladins heals are equally often complete over heals as disc priests, additionally holy light splashes to melee targets (glyphed) and any of those which actually heal can proc val'anyr also pennance is 3 heals over 10 seconds while holy light with normal paladin casting speed is used proabably 6 or seven times in those ten seconds, so no a disc priest will not proc it faster than a paladin.

  20. #80

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    So (as far as I readabout it) it will pop a shield on any target that is healed capping at a sum of 20k.
    healed AND overhealed (only the initial proccing heal needs not to fully overheal), and the 20k cap is just imo to avoid later level (level of characters or gear) problems. Let's look at a paladin. In 15 Seconds, he can get let's say 8 HL and 1 lay on hands (don't think you can get more burst heal) with a 50% assumed crit rate that would be just above these 130k needed, but most paladins won't use LoH just to shield the tank more I think. It's gonna be hard (with T8 gear) to get those 130k heal in 15sec.

    Imagine in like 2 expansions hpw much heal a healer can output in 15 seconds, that would maybe make the mace OP even at level 100ish if there wasn't this cap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark
    I dont know why everyone expects thing to be rebuilt after a cataclysm. Last time i checked, earthquakes dont fix roofs.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •