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  1. #141
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Elune
    Posts
    996

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial
    They thought outside the box, they didnt disguise lacking arguments with "thinking outside the box", big difference.
    Thank you for point this out. The manner in which the person you quoted was using "think outside the box" was ridiculous. "Think outside the box" doesn't mean you should go against conventional thinking just because you can, it means don't think in a certain way just because it's conventional. There's a reason things become convention so going against it just because you can will, more often than not, result in disaster. If you go against convention, but have a good reason for it, THEN you're thinking outside the box.

    Disc priests have bad synergy with the mace, just because discs toolbox includes absorbs, that more absorbs would somehow be better for disc than other classes.
    This is the reason why the "conventional thinking" says it's lackluster in the hands of a Discipline Priest. The total effective healing of a Discipline Priest (including absorbs) is roughly the same as it is for a Paladin (excluding overheals). The problem is the mace WON'T proc on the absorbs, and it WILL proc on overhealing. So if you start with two things that are roughly equal, subtract from one and add to the other, then it's fairly intuitive to say that the latter will be larger. There's no real number crunching necessary because the reasoning is intuitive.

    That is, of course, not to say that you can't "think outside the box". What if your Discipline Priest shows up to almost every raid and the Paladin shows up to noticeably fewer? Maybe the Discipline Priest will get more out of it by virtue of being in more raids. What if your Discipline Priest is just THAT awesome, either because of gear or skill or both and the Paladin is mediocre? Maybe the Discipline Priest will get more out of it because their effective healing isn't roughly equal anymore. What if your Discipline Priest has been in the guild since before you were wiping endlessly to Baron Geddon because people couldn't run out and the Paladin joined you when you had Naxx-25 on farm? Maybe the Discipline Priest deserves it for showing guild loyalty and because you can be reasonably sure he's not going anywhere anytime soon.

    So, sure, there's plenty of reasons to give a Discipline Priest the mace over a Paladin, but simply saying you're "thinking outside the box" without actually explaining how you're doing that doesn't mean anything.

  2. #142
    Grunt
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Copenhagen,Denmark
    Posts
    11

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Yet another person who doesn't think outside of the box..

    I'll try to put it simple - a holy priest can do 20k Gheal crits. A disc priest does 14k Gheal crits. In raid environment, there's more than 1 MT healer usually and there's overhealing. If tank lost 10k HP, and holy priest heals for 20K, the difference is lost. If a disc does the same, the "lost" healing is 4k but since it's a crit 30% of 14k -> bubble. With Val'Anyr you'd create another bubble, which would be 15% of 14k.

    If it was a holy priest with the mace > bubble = 3000.
    If it was a disc priest with the mace > bubble = 2100 + 4200. With T9 it'd be 2100 from val'anyr and 5600 from Aegis.

    Which means, if holy priest heals + val'anyr heal the tank = absorption is 3k per 20k gheal, but if Disc does it absorption is 6300 per gheal crit.

    When it comes to raid healing, usually the damage isn't incredibly huge that it decimates the raid so bubbles from val'anyr aren't make it or break it there. However, when it comes to MT healing, things like these help. Sometimes, they can account for taking 1 healer less and having only 1 disc or 1 paladin healing the tank doing hard modes.

    I hope this gets read before another person who values HPS over anything else jumps in with "it's the best for xyz" comment.

    It rocks on any healer, but discipline has the best synergy with it.

    With other words, your GM is pro tbh.

  3. #143

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Not by much really, if I don't cast bubbles (except to get BT for Penance and FHeal) and just roll Renew+PoM+Penance+Flash Heal spam, I stay right up a good Holy pallies ass. The difference is being blown out of proportion. I'm not disagreeing that it might be better on a Holy pally (it really depends on the player also) but my gripe is saying that Disc should not have it AT ALL EVER. That's just ignorant and means you don't know the spec.
    First of all no, you cant, if you could no other healer would have any place at all in raids, second of all if you do that you are gimping yourself in order to be slightly closer in total healing than a class that doesn't have to gimp themselves, third YOU CANT, fourth while you may be slightly closer in effective healing, you arent even remotely close with regard to overhealing, effective healing is like 40% of a paladins total healing,

    so this is what you are doing, you are taking away the best element of your class in order to get close (and you really cant get close) to maybe 40% of a paladins total healing on a single target.

  4. #144

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    We´re giving our Val'Anyr to a druid. Not because he´s a druid, but because he won the roll and diserves it. All classes that can heal would imo have about the same benefit from the mace in the long run.
    and for the guys who didnt read the latest hmm about 5? retpaladin changes, they arent fotm anymore since long, fotm right now is warlock and priest obviously...

  5. #145

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Our first is going to a holy priest, our second to a disc priest. Is that the absolute best allocation? Yeah, for us it is. Simply put, those two raiders have missed a total of 3 raids combined since LK released (w/ 3-4 scheduled raids / week), and the next closest healer has missed 10+. The fact that they perform their roles exceptionally well and rarely DIAF helped the decision.

    Can a pally make the best use of it? Sure, I'll concede that with all other things being equal, they have the potential to make the best use of the proc in the most encounters. But each guild's decision has to be based on more than the 'generic' factors.

    IMO, guild loyalty & consistantly showing up > avoiding DIAF > individual class synergy w/ the proc. And yeah, a priest getting this should be willing / capable of swapping btw disc/holy as the encounter demands (if they're in a guild capable of getting enough shards for this they ought to be anyway).

    On a related note... When 3.2 hits and people stop really running Ulduar as much, has anyone heard if further fragments will drop in 3.2 25-man content? Seems a little weird that (given the mace is being updated to match 3.2 drop stats) it will be left behind as accessible only in older content while we're still in WotLK...
    Bigslick (13/14H)
    "Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."

  6. #146

    Re: Val'anyr and the Disc Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Asgard
    Yes, I too think that if a priest were to get that weapon he would not want to go disc. The reason is that valanyr converts 15% of your healing (on proc) into a bubble. A bubble / divine aegis / whatever, is 0 healing. Zero. Math lesson, 15% of zero is ?

    In order for it to be viable, the priest would have to switch to healing (GHeal, FHeal, Prayer), and that's not a disc niche.

    Just my opinion.
    its funny to me when people say this because basically what you are saying it: What I am saying does not matter one bit because it isnt based on fact, its just my opinion. Why even post?

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