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  1. #21

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    I don't recall ever saying I had mana problems, did I? No didn't think so.

    So calm down and put your nerd rage helmet to one side.

    Yes Divine Aegis is good, no-one is doubting that. But it only works on Crits, Improved Healing works on every Penance/Greater Heal and is a sizeable drop in mana cost. And yes before you say it, I know we get a lot of crits with Penance/Flash Heal etc. I'm simply trying to change somethings about to see what works best for me.




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  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans -Ethos-'s Avatar
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    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironfoot
    I don't recall ever saying I had mana problems, did I? No didn't think so.

    So calm down and put your nerd rage helmet to one side.

    Yes Divine Aegis is good, no-one is doubting that. But it only works on Crits, Improved Healing works on every Penance/Greater Heal and is a sizeable drop in mana cost. And yes before you say it, I know we get a lot of crits with Penance/Flash Heal etc. I'm simply trying to change somethings about to see what works best for me.
    What would you say is the purpose of the Discipline spec?

    To Mitigate damage, or to mindlessly spam Flash, Gheal and Penance?


    Our purpose in a raid is to make life easier for other healers. One of out strongest stats is crit, because when we crit we proc DA, and we are fulfilling our role within the raid.
    DA is essential on fights like Algalon, HM Thorim, HM Council, and in fact, any fight where you heal the tank. Disc priests have the lowest direct HPS of any healer, we depend on DA procs to buy us time for our next heal to hit when healing solo and we need to know how to use them in combination with PWS to mitigate bigger hits like Steelbreaker.

    You are sacrificing talents that are vital to the tree so you can spam another heal a few more times.
    If you are not having mana problems, you cannot justify ever taking Improved Healing over any other talent in the final tiers of the discipline tree.

  3. #23

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironfoot
    I don't recall ever saying I had mana problems, did I? No didn't think so.

    So calm down and put your nerd rage helmet to one side.

    Yes Divine Aegis is good, no-one is doubting that. But it only works on Crits, Improved Healing works on every Penance/Greater Heal and is a sizeable drop in mana cost. And yes before you say it, I know we get a lot of crits with Penance/Flash Heal etc. I'm simply trying to change somethings about to see what works best for me.



    After reading the thread, and particularly this post, its clear that this guy is trolling hard. If you dont have mana problems, why would you take a mana reduction talent? G_G
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Thunderlord&n=Bro

  4. #24

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ethos-
    What would you say is the purpose of the Discipline spec?

    To Mitigate damage, or to mindlessly spam Flash, Gheal and Penance?
    I am aware what the purpose of a Disc Priest is, I'm simply trying to mix some things around to see if anything else can work. Last time I checked there was no harm in that, or did I miss that Blue post?

    As stated before I don't have Mana problems, however a Mana cost reduction talent is nothing to be completely ignored, which is why I looked at it instead of Divine Aegis. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, I'm simply looking at the possibility of trying something else. Shock horror.

    Quote Originally Posted by JukeSkywalker
    After reading the thread, and particularly this post, its clear that this guy is trolling hard. If you dont have mana problems, why would you take a mana reduction talent? G_G
    And no I'm not trolling. As stated in my original post I mainly used Disc for PvP back in TBC, and haven't used it much at all in WOTLK, which is why I asked for advice.

    Again as stated in the original post I'm not raiding in Ulduar, I'm doing Naxx mainly and OS/VoA. I'm still getting used to using Disc for PvE and so thought I would possibly look at changing some things about to see if it could work any better.

    In future I'll make sure I follow the cookie-cutter spec and don't dare to think about what could happen if I changed some points around.

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  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans -Ethos-'s Avatar
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    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironfoot


    In future I'll make sure I follow the cookie-cutter spec and don't dare to think about what could happen if I changed some points around.
    Its best that way. It's our cookie cutter spec for a reason.

  6. #26
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironfoot
    As stated before I don't have Mana problems, however a Mana cost reduction talent is nothing to be completely ignored, which is why I looked at it instead of Divine Aegis. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, I'm simply looking at the possibility of trying something else. Shock horror.
    I'm not going to make accusations of trolling or anything, but I just can't stress enough how truly awesome Divine Aegis is. Even in entirely Holy Gear, I still run over 35% Crit raid buffed as Discipline, and I've seen properly geared Discipline Priests running with around 45% Crit. So while Divine Aegis may only proc on Crits, Crits are hardly a rarity. As others said, unless you're having mana problems, I just really don't see why Improved Healing is worth picking up. I suppose it may let you trade some Flash Heal fillers for more Greater Heal fillers, but I'm not really sure how effective that would be.

    Still, Divine Aegis and Improved Healing are not mutually exclusive, you can have both at the same time and if you want to experiment, can you respond to my suggestion of dropping Focused Will instead of Divine Aegis? Losing 3% Crit is much less impact than losing Divine Aegis, especially when without Divine Aegis, Crit is worth less.

  7. #27

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironfoot
    Healing Focus goes back to the days when I used to do PvP, but I think it also has merits in PvE.

    If I'm taking raid damage I don't want that to affect my ability to get a big heal off on the Tank(s). The poison clouds on Grobb are a good example. Really any encounter where I might take raid damage could ultimately stop me getting a heal onto someone, which I think is justified for 2 points.
    Why would u throw a big heal like GH as disc MT healing?
    Kinda supposed to shield up, penance&FH spam instead

  8. #28

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq
    Still, Divine Aegis and Improved Healing are not mutually exclusive, you can have both at the same time and if you want to experiment, can you respond to my suggestion of dropping Focused Will instead of Divine Aegis? Losing 3% Crit is much less impact than losing Divine Aegis, especially when without Divine Aegis, Crit is worth less.
    I don't have Focused Will at the minute, I added it because of the extra Crit. And I only dropped Divine Aegis to look at the possibility of Improved Healing.

    I couldn't get 3 points in Improved Healing, however I can get 2 which is a 10% reduction, which is better than nothing.

    That spec would look quite similar to what I was running originally, apart from the Improved Healing and dropping Improved Renew, which I don't use much anyway. I might have to have a look at this one...

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  9. #29
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ethos-
    Its best that way. It's our cookie cutter spec for a reason.
    Yes, we have cookie cutter specs, but encouraging people not to question them is silly because they don't address all play styles or situations. By all means, question the cookie cutter spec, it's just important to understand what you're giving up and what you're gaining. I hate to bring it up, but the whole Divine Fury vs. Spell Warding is a good example of a reasonable discussion about it because neither talent is amazing and both help in different situations with different styles (eg, if you never use GH, you probably favor Spell Warding; if you use if a fair amount, you probably favor Divine Fury).

    However, if you're going to question the wisdom of one of the generally considered most powerful talents in a tree, you have to have some pretty convincing reasons as to why. Imagine taking that spec and trading Penance for Desperate Prayer saying that you seldom use Penance and you want a little more survivability; it may fit your play style, but you would absolutely get flamed, and flamed hard. People would tell you pretty much the same thing, that you need to adjust your play style because Penance is THAT good. Or to give a DPS example, imagine a Shadow Priest giving up, say, Pain and Suffering to get Mental Agility; sure, the extra mana may be nice, but do they really need it? Is it worth leaving that DPS behind for mana that they probably don't need?

    It really isn't a whole lot different here, where Divine Aegis is easily one of the best talents in Discipline, so while getting Improved Healing may be good for you, it's very difficult to justify giving up a talent that is that good, especially when you have alternatives. So while I don't personally think that Improved Healing is worth it for Discipline, if you do, that's fine; I think the problem is more which talent you're giving up and less what talent you are trying to get.

  10. #30

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq
    It really isn't a whole lot different here, where Divine Aegis is easily one of the best talents in Discipline, so while getting Improved Healing may be good for you, it's very difficult to justify giving up a talent that is that good, especially when you have alternatives. So while I don't personally think that Improved Healing is worth it for Discipline, if you do, that's fine; I think the problem is more which talent you're giving up and less what talent you are trying to get.
    Well all I've really changed about is Improved Renew is gone and Improved Healing is in it's place.

    So it would look a little like this:

    http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...00000000000000

    Quite similar to what I had before, but now probably better for me.

    The only other thing I was thinking of was dropping 1/2 in Healing Focus and maxing out Divine Fury, but I'm not sure.

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  11. #31

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironfoot
    I am aware what the purpose of a Disc Priest is, I'm simply trying to mix some things around to see if anything else can work. Last time I checked there was no harm in that, or did I miss that Blue post?

    As stated before I don't have Mana problems, however a Mana cost reduction talent is nothing to be completely ignored, which is why I looked at it instead of Divine Aegis. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, I'm simply looking at the possibility of trying something else. Shock horror.

    And no I'm not trolling. As stated in my original post I mainly used Disc for PvP back in TBC, and haven't used it much at all in WOTLK, which is why I asked for advice.

    Again as stated in the original post I'm not raiding in Ulduar, I'm doing Naxx mainly and OS/VoA. I'm still getting used to using Disc for PvE and so thought I would possibly look at changing some things about to see if it could work any better.

    In future I'll make sure I follow the cookie-cutter spec and don't dare to think about what could happen if I changed some points around.
    If your choice is between choosing the current best spec for your class, which is popular because it is the best, and choosing a terrible spec to be original, then it is generally in the best interest of your guild to go with the crowd.

    Since you are raiding naxx though, it shouldn't make much of a difference. Although without the main attractive talents in the Discipline tree, you will basically be a crappy Holy priest with bad AoE healing, weak direct heals, and Penance.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  12. #32

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon
    If your choice is between choosing the current best spec for your class, which is popular because it is the best, and choosing a terrible spec to be original, then it is generally in the best interest of your guild to go with the crowd.

    Since you are raiding naxx though, it shouldn't make much of a difference. Although without the main attractive talents in the Discipline tree, you will basically be a crappy Holy priest with bad AoE healing, weak direct heals, and Penance.
    I'm not choosing a terrible spec to be original, I'm simply looking at other ways to approach Disc Healing and not be a sheep and have that spec simply because everyone else does.

    Yes I'm aware it's the cookie-cutter spec and is probably the best overral, I didn't realise that means I can't look at changing it to see if anything else could work.

    And also - the best is only the best until someone tries something different. I'm not saying my way would of been best, it probably wouldn't, I was simply investigating other options.

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  13. #33

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    "the hallowed"

  14. #34
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironfoot
    The only other thing I was thinking of was dropping 1/2 in Healing Focus and maxing out Divine Fury, but I'm not sure.
    Personally, I don't think Healing Focus is worth much, so if you were to give up a point there to max out Divine Fury, especially if you're grabbing Improved Healing for more Greater Heal spam, it's probably a reasonable trade.

    Another possible option that would require some experimentation is giving up a point in Grace. This would have been a terribly idea when it only lasted 8s, but since it's 15s now you shouldn't have any trouble keeping it stacked up with only a 50% chance. But, if you're going for Greater Heal spam, that extra point is still probably better spent in Improved Healing rather than Divine Fury, and you'd still probably want to grab that point out of Healing Focus for Divine Fury.

    Although, really, if you're going for Greater Heal spam over Flash Heal spam, why even bother with Improved Flash Heal at all? You could possibly shift those points back over to Focused Will. Something sort of like this:

    http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...00000000000000

    I think that sort of spec is about the best you could do if you're trying to use Greater Heal as a filler instead of Flash Heal, but even with the 15% reduction in mana cost for Greater Heal and Penance, I really have no idea how it will affect your mana or throughput. In the long run, I think you'd still find that the cookie cutter spec offers more mana efficiency and utility while Greater Heal spam would probably require more attention to mana and more Haste which, I suspect, would probably undo much if not all of the potential HPS advantage such that it's not worth the trade.

    Also, with the way that most MT healing has been going these days, I don't think a Greater Heal spam has as much synergy with other MT healers as the cookie cutter spec. That is, most Paladins are Holy Light Spammers these days, so having the damage mitigation and smaller faster heals from Discipline helps a lot with helping to steady the MTs health, where Greater Heal spec would result in more spikiness in the tanks health. So, in that sense, even if there is an HPS advantage to switching to Greater Heal spam, it's one more potential downside to using Greater Heal as a filler.

    Either way, I'm still treating that as more of a theorycrafting concept and it would require some experimentation to see how it works out both in terms of HPS, mana longevity, and the spikiness of the tank's health.

  15. #35

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    PS is a waste of 1 point.
    and Hard modes are a waste of time.

    OHWAIT

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Barthilas&n=Strykie

  16. #36

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    I'm not a Greater Heal spammer, not by a long shot. Flash Heal/Penance/PWS are my top 3 used every time.

    I was simply looking at it to see if the reduced mana cost might make it more attractive to use, but just playing about with it a bit at the minute and I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

    Certainly not enough to drop Divine Aegis or something else like that.

    I think I'll stick with what I have for the time being, and just have the slight mana reduction that 2 points gives, I think it should work overall.

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  17. #37
    Herald of the Titans -Ethos-'s Avatar
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    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strykzor
    PS is a waste of 1 point.
    and Hard modes are a waste of time.

    OHWAIT
    Missed you <3

  18. #38

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by komplexvn
    If I were your guild, I'd be trying to find a new healer.
    ^
    ^
    ^
    ... BTW how much critical rate u have? Are you ready to be a Disc Priest? Are you sure? ...

  19. #39

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Wow... I just read through all of that... and now I have to read the OPs post again because I can't even remember the original point/question.

    /brb

    Ah ok... everyone is off their rocker because PS/PI is very, very awesome for later fights in Ulduar and hardmodes. However, the following is why the OP hasn't seen much use from them:

    OP is currently running 10man T7 content


    That isn't a insult, it is what it is. Whats insulting are people jumping down this guy's throat because "LOL USUX HARDMODE MUCH?," instead of taking the 5sec to read his post to see where he is coming from.

    To answer your question:

    PS/PI don't have a great use for you right now running 10man T7 content. However, I would keep them in your spec because if you ever do make it to T8 content, it would be wise to be comfortable with knowing when to use these spells. If you want to practice, use PS on the tank right before a webspray on Maxxena after she's been dropped down below 35%. This will get you more comforable with using a DR CD.

    As far as PI is concerned, you can have a /target macro set to your top dps caster and hit it when off CD. Or, you can practice for harder content and pop it when you need extra fast heals. Try using PI after Gluth decimate, heal up your tanks fast, pop PW:S, drop a super hasted PoH on group1, pop PW:S again, PoH group2. Then sit back and /flex while doing all that @ 20% less mana cost.

    Also, I would move the points out of DF as well and run with something like this: http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...00000000000000

    GH just doesn't cut the mustard for most Disco priests in T-8 content. I am aware that some disco priests are stacking haste like its going out of style to drop the cast time of GH, but honestly, I think you give up way to many goodies to make this viable. However, 10% less spell damage is the hotness as most damage you will ever take will be magical.

    I hope this helps with your questions.

  20. #40

    Re: Disc Priest without PI/PS?

    Quote Originally Posted by jshidaka
    ^
    ^
    ^
    ... BTW how much critical rate u have? Are you ready to be a Disc Priest? Are you sure? ...
    If you even bothered to look on my Armoury you would see the type of gear that I have.

    Also if you had bothered to read my earlier posts you will see that I'm running 10 man Naxx with my guild, so my gear reflects that.

    And to Spiritus, thank you being one of the very few people who obviously took the time to read my original question and actually answer it instead of putting your nerd rage helmet on and going to town on me.

    I'll setup that PI macro for the top DPS and try using PS more, I'll just have to make sure I keep using it :P

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