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  1. #21

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    a. we take 6 healers to our 25 mans, some dps race fights we go down to 5, hell, hodir hard mode we went to 3 healers and downed him last week. U wont find to many guilds that lake less then6, and have 1 or 2 that can dual spec dps on some dps races and yogg (not a lot of heals needed on yogg)

    b. if it's a 1 tank fight, we have 2-3 healers on mt 2-4 on raid healing. ON 3 tank fights we have 1 pally on each tank, rest raid heal. So like freya each tank has his own healing pally (yes, we are odd guild, we take 3 holy pally every raid, 1 shammy, 1 priest, then either a priest/druid)

    c. we have done fl 4 up (nothing to do with heals), xt hard, council medium. hodir hard. freya +1. so far. yogg -1 try this week as we had 2min on enrage last week we feel we can do it.

    d. see above

    e. maybe, almost all of our guild is 12-15 out of 17 slots in 226 gear or higher.

    f. i have run a full 10 ulduar like 1 time for achivements and one time for like 5 hard mode achievemnts. other then that it's 25 ulduar every week, yogg has went down something like 5-6 weeks in a row.

    g. u don't carry anyone in 25 man ulduar hard modes, if u can't cut it, u can't go.


    it's not hard to get. at 1.5 seconds with 18k HL u can heal 12000 hps on tank, preemtive heals. at 1 seconds u can flash for 8-9k so 8500hps (this is the high end crit amount same goes for low end numbers) considering pallies overheal 60-70% when preemtive tank healing, doesn't seem like an issue. add in an instant 7-10 k hit for when tank gets wtf pwnd and a 50-60% chance at an instant flash or 100%hl crit at 1.5 seconds and u don't need HL spam to keep tanks alive.

    4 piece ss bonus does a nice job of removing damage taken, and it gives more uptime on flash crit, meaning if u have 4 piece t 8.5 and keep ss up, and flash a lot, u will crit most of the time. which is the pt. with enough haste, and smart playing (keep judement every 60 sec, ss 30 sec, hl every 15 sec to keep time down to 1.5 cast, beacon 100% up, usually on mt in case u need to fast save a guy with your shock and heal tank at same time.

    if u think i have no idea, look up darthceltic on armory. I'm the only guy with that name, go figure. U can see my gear, my chants, gems, talents, and my hard mode achievements. I'm not elitest or even think i'm a great player, but i'm good enough to know pallies don't have to HL spam to work.

  2. #22

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    Quote Originally Posted by darthceltic
    man, i don't know what to say. U guys can't keep tanks alive with flash?

    u want to cast HL just enough to keep the lower casting time up. that way when a tank gets spike damage, u can cast a fast HL.

    U can 100% keep tanks alive in 25 ulduar with using almost no HL.

    SS with 4 set bonus, flash spam 1 second flash, HL to keep up cast lowered time, and shock/HL or shock/instaflash will keep him alive in most fights. Besides, if it's a fight where Flash won't keep him alive, u have more then 1 healer on the tank. When we were first in ulduar many fights we had to HL spam like nax to get through the boss. But with the tanks getting gear, and dps getting gear to get through the fight faster, Flat our HL spam is not needed.

    And i rarely ever use divine plea in a fight, and when i do it's with AW macro. I have taken our a bit of my it for haste which makes more sense. Instead of casting 100% HL and having to plea, pot, and risk going oom at end of fight, get more haste. Use FL to keep tank topped off, when he's topped off, HL a raid member that needs healing, back to FL on tank. Keep ss and beacon 100% on tank so when u splash HL, u get him too. That way u have a 1.5 second 20k heal always on backup if tank gets spike damage.


    and we are doing Yogg -1 keeper this sunday, so maybe next week i will try and show u a tank on al kept up without HL spam.
    Do you do 10 mans or 25 man hardmodes?
    And you never ever needed to HL in yogg -1 keeper.
    Also playing reactive healer can get tanks killed in Hard Modes.
    Looks like you have a very good tank healers whos carrying your slack in my opinion.


    g. u don't carry anyone in 25 man ulduar hard modes, if u can't cut it, u can't go.
    ^
    I believe our DPS carried our really bad warlock who did 5k dps in Hodir and we still got the speed kill.
    We had people die by standing in the lightning (besides the melee of course who got instagibbed) on our Lose your Illusion kill.
    We had people die in FL+4 and still got Orbit.

    You can carry people on certain hardmodes but not all of them. Anyways can i see a WWS, a parse of some of your encounters at all?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ourinho/simple

    No more avatars . Not risking anymore bans.

  3. #23

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    go to dark haven's website, i'm sure webstats are up. and again, they are great for dps, but mean very little for healers. A disc priest will be bottom many of fights, but they add to the actual healing of the fight greatly with the bubbles.

    i did 10 man hard modes to help out the 10 man groups, but in our guild 10 mans aren't "raids" just something u pug and throw together. 25 man hard modes.

    and to put up with what i said earlier, we have another healer who always seems to have high recount webstat numbers, but his target always seems to die first, or die when they should not. trying to heal guys that are not there responseablity to pad the recount meters and get the tank killed. If we wipe, 95% of the time me and my target are alive unless they got hit for like 55k 1 shot.

    believe me or don't... but pallies who stack only int and spam HL 95% of the time are horribad, and come patch 3.2 won't be "carrying" anyone in ulduar.

    some fights u use more hl, some more flash, some u change back and forth. HL spam during XT tantrum, sure, non tantrum? not needed.

    darkhavensociety.com is our website, they post numbers. i'm holy for usually 90% of the fights each week, sometimes less, sometimes more.


  4. #24

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    oh yeah, what is your healing pallies name and server?

  5. #25

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    Sâmusâran
    Jubei'thos.

    Oh and i wouldn't do any achievement bashing either, Kokoda has done Lose your Illusion and i'll tell you now.
    That fight needs HL..
    You just need to do more tank healing intensive and you might get the ideology behind the HL spam.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ourinho/simple

    No more avatars . Not risking anymore bans.

  6. #26

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    u talk a big game, and your guild has done some hard modes on 25 i have not, but u have not. so how do u know?

    u have a weapon with spirit on it and 10 man tier pieces. u have no haste, no mp5 (no biggie till 3.2) average haste and can i ask, why do u have sp gemmed on gear where u don't even have socket bonus? if all u do is spam HL, all u want is int. why bother with the sp at all?

    when patch 3.2 hits, if u stick with that build u will be sorry. man, your haste is so low i bet i could do same hps with my 75% flash cast. what is your HL ? 1.7seconds? i'd be afraid of my tank getting spikey damage in that 1.7 seconds without a heal. rather then 1 second 8 k heals with shock/insta flash and backup hl like i do it. seen to many fights where a tank gets 33k damage and 1 second later on grim rep 25k and he's dead with no heals.

  7. #27

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    Quote Originally Posted by darthceltic
    u talk a big game, and your guild has done some hard modes on 25 i have not, but u have not. so how do u know?

    u have a weapon with spirit on it and 10 man tier pieces. u have no haste, no mp5 (no biggie till 3.2) average haste and can i ask, why do u have sp gemmed on gear where u don't even have socket bonus? if all u do is spam HL, all u want is int. why bother with the sp at all?

    when patch 3.2 hits, if u stick with that build u will be sorry. man, your haste is so low i bet i could do same hps with my 75% flash cast. what is your HL ? 1.7seconds? i'd be afraid of my tank getting spikey damage in that 1.7 seconds without a heal. rather then 1 second 8 k heals with shock/insta flash and backup hl like i do it. seen to many fights where a tank gets 33k damage and 1 second later on grim rep 25k and he's dead with no heals.
    See Armoury Bashing already.
    Weapons don't appear out of thin air you know.
    There has been literally no weapons dropping out of General Vezax Hard Mode, No guiding star
    But Runescribed Blade is alot.
    Spell power on my boots? I already can sustain myself.
    Umm what is your HPS? I would love to see you beat my HPS.
    My HL is 1.3 seconds. There is such thing as judging the boss to get haste and i don't mindlessly spam HL. Are you really that nub? On the move you HS + FoL. And if a tank dies to 25k hit 1 sec no heals
    maybe you should use another healer or tanking cds or STOP USING FLASH.
    10 man tier pieces for Imp SS? 25 man tier pieces don't drop...

    You know most Pallys don't mindlessly spam HL on the tank over and over again. Some of them do use the HS + FoL combo when they are moving.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ourinho/simple

    No more avatars . Not risking anymore bans.

  8. #28

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    Quote Originally Posted by FiveDkp
    See Armoury Bashing already.
    Weapons don't appear out of thin air you know.
    There has been literally no weapons dropping out of General Vezax Hard Mode, No guiding star
    But Runescribed Blade is alot.
    Spell power on my boots? I already can sustain myself.
    Umm what is your HPS? I would love to see you beat my HPS.
    My HL is 1.3 seconds. There is such thing as judging the boss to get haste and i don't mindlessly spam HL. Are you really that nub? On the move you HS + FoL. And if a tank dies to 25k hit 1 sec no heals
    maybe you should use another healer or tanking cds or STOP USING FLASH.
    10 man tier pieces for Imp SS? 25 man tier pieces don't drop...

    You know most Pallys don't mindlessly spam HL on the tank over and over again. Some of them do use the HS + FoL combo when they are moving.

    Your HPS on Freya - HPS : 4395
    4.3k per second?
    My HPS on Freya (Considering my Freya kill only took 5 mins and not 10 mins.) was 6627 <--- Not included overhealing (same as yours).

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/c...=10771&e=11093 <---- thats my guild's Log. due to wws being weird. to calc the HPS
    Divide my healing done by 19 (Since overheal isn't counted and it is 81% so 381k = 19% of the healing
    then times that amount by 100 to get the overall amount and divide it by 5 mins (how long the fight lasted for) and i have a 6.6k HPS.

    I can sustain that for about 7-10 mins. I don't know how you dragged Freya + 1 out to 10 minutes though...

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ourinho/simple

    No more avatars . Not risking anymore bans.

  9. #29

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    How to play holy paladin:

    Stack intellect, Spam Holy light.

  10. #30

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    Healing is all about predicting incoming damage and quick responding to damage that cannot be fully predicted. For tank healing you precast holy lights, since most bosses hit for 25k damage on a 1.5 sec swing timer, so 2 consecutive hits will most likely kill your tank if you do not precast and land a heal in between. With 4setbonus of t8 you extend the effective health of your target by about 3-4k with assumably 75% uptime, which will make tank healing alot more bearable, since it can push up the EH of the tank just enough so he survives two consecutive hits.

    There is no guide on how to heal, you have to experience it yourself. What can be helpfull is gearing; as everyone know paladins stack intellect for mana preservance, but an important secondary stat is also haste for increased responsiveness to incomming damage.

  11. #31

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    Int > Crit > Haste > SP = Stam > Mp5


    If you're healing with Flash, gz on your other healers

    Come 3.2 more like

    Int > Haste > SP > Mp5 = Stam = Crit

  12. #32

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    i have 31% haste buffed and the cap is somewhere near there
    and i have 1.3 HLs
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ourinho/simple

    No more avatars . Not risking anymore bans.

  13. #33

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    Quote Originally Posted by darthceltic
    a. we take 6 healers to our 25 mans, some dps race fights we go down to 5, hell, hodir hard mode we went to 3 healers and downed him last week. U wont find to many guilds that lake less then6, and have 1 or 2 that can dual spec dps on some dps races and yogg (not a lot of heals needed on yogg)

    b. if it's a 1 tank fight, we have 2-3 healers on mt 2-4 on raid healing. ON 3 tank fights we have 1 pally on each tank, rest raid heal. So like freya each tank has his own healing pally (yes, we are odd guild, we take 3 holy pally every raid, 1 shammy, 1 priest, then either a priest/druid)

    c. we have done fl 4 up (nothing to do with heals), xt hard, council medium. hodir hard. freya +1. so far. yogg -1 try this week as we had 2min on enrage last week we feel we can do it.

    d. see above

    e. maybe, almost all of our guild is 12-15 out of 17 slots in 226 gear or higher.

    f. i have run a full 10 ulduar like 1 time for achivements and one time for like 5 hard mode achievemnts. other then that it's 25 ulduar every week, yogg has went down something like 5-6 weeks in a row.

    g. u don't carry anyone in 25 man ulduar hard modes, if u can't cut it, u can't go.


    it's not hard to get. at 1.5 seconds with 18k HL u can heal 12000 hps on tank, preemtive heals. at 1 seconds u can flash for 8-9k so 8500hps (this is the high end crit amount same goes for low end numbers) considering pallies overheal 60-70% when preemtive tank healing, doesn't seem like an issue. add in an instant 7-10 k hit for when tank gets wtf pwnd and a 50-60% chance at an instant flash or 100%hl crit at 1.5 seconds and u don't need HL spam to keep tanks alive.

    4 piece ss bonus does a nice job of removing damage taken, and it gives more uptime on flash crit, meaning if u have 4 piece t 8.5 and keep ss up, and flash a lot, u will crit most of the time. which is the pt. with enough haste, and smart playing (keep judement every 60 sec, ss 30 sec, hl every 15 sec to keep time down to 1.5 cast, beacon 100% up, usually on mt in case u need to fast save a guy with your shock and heal tank at same time.

    if u think i have no idea, look up darthceltic on armory. I'm the only guy with that name, go figure. U can see my gear, my chants, gems, talents, and my hard mode achievements. I'm not elitest or even think i'm a great player, but i'm good enough to know pallies don't have to HL spam to work.
    Do me a favor and link your armory cos I cant find it. Also according your guilds roster theres no one called dartceltic as a member.

  14. #34

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    ducon:

    here is darthceltic's armory
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=Darthceltic


  15. #35

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    Darthceltic:

    you said you are a flash light healer, but I have few questions that i don't understand. IF you are a flash light spammer, why your talents is holy lights spammer talents. 51/5/15. don't u need improved divine shield to keet flash light crit up time more?

    and you have only 2200ish spell power without buff. i personally use holy light more, and stack int. and sadly i have more spell power than you without buff. besides, i have 100 more haste and 6k mana than you. but still, i don't think flash light can keep tanks alive when you are the only tank healer in a 25 man raid




  16. #36

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    i don't use only flash. i told u what i did.

    i kept ss up. with the 4 set bonus it procs a lot, and gives the extra crit. i beacon the tank 100% that i can so i can shock or hl raid if needed. I make sure to work in 1 HL on tank or raid every 15 seconds even if nobody needs it so i can fast give a 1.5 second HL. i can shock/insta flash if tank takes a serious hit then give him a hl, the go back to keeping him topped off with flash flash flash flash HL flash.

    and if the boss is using some special ability like tantrum u can easily switch to HL spam till its done and all are topped off.

    is it really to hard to understand u can use your brain and heal instead of "if you don't stack all int and HL spam your tank will die and u suck"

    and the one guy needs to stop telling lies. with less then 400 haste i don't care what u judge or how often, your HL is not 1.3 seconds.

    and 4400 hps or 6000 hps all to make your epeen feel bigger, but it does nothing to make the raid more sucessful, as anything over 1300 is most likely overhealing that doesn't do crap.

  17. #37

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    I was about to make a long post about how many of your examples are "best case scenarios" and almost never happen ingame but its not worth it. Gonna just say that theres a difference with "getting the job done" and "getting the job done while maximizing your utilities"

  18. #38

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    Quote Originally Posted by darthceltic
    i don't use only flash. i told u what i did.

    i kept ss up. with the 4 set bonus it procs a lot, and gives the extra crit. i beacon the tank 100% that i can so i can shock or hl raid if needed. I make sure to work in 1 HL on tank or raid every 15 seconds even if nobody needs it so i can fast give a 1.5 second HL. i can shock/insta flash if tank takes a serious hit then give him a hl, the go back to keeping him topped off with flash flash flash flash HL flash.

    and if the boss is using some special ability like tantrum u can easily switch to HL spam till its done and all are topped off.

    is it really to hard to understand u can use your brain and heal instead of "if you don't stack all int and HL spam your tank will die and u suck"

    and the one guy needs to stop telling lies. with less then 400 haste i don't care what u judge or how often, your HL is not 1.3 seconds.

    and 4400 hps or 6000 hps all to make your epeen feel bigger, but it does nothing to make the raid more sucessful, as anything over 1300 is most likely overhealing that doesn't do crap.
    31% haste tells me that my HL is 1.3 second
    11.8% normal haste
    15% judgement haste
    5% Wrath of air haste.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ourinho/simple

    No more avatars . Not risking anymore bans.

  19. #39

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    Quote Originally Posted by darthceltic
    i don't use only flash. i told u what i did.

    i kept ss up. with the 4 set bonus it procs a lot, and gives the extra crit. i beacon the tank 100% that i can so i can shock or hl raid if needed. I make sure to work in 1 HL on tank or raid every 15 seconds even if nobody needs it so i can fast give a 1.5 second HL. i can shock/insta flash if tank takes a serious hit then give him a hl, the go back to keeping him topped off with flash flash flash flash HL flash.

    and if the boss is using some special ability like tantrum u can easily switch to HL spam till its done and all are topped off.

    is it really to hard to understand u can use your brain and heal instead of "if you don't stack all int and HL spam your tank will die and u suck"

    and the one guy needs to stop telling lies. with less then 400 haste i don't care what u judge or how often, your HL is not 1.3 seconds.

    and 4400 hps or 6000 hps all to make your epeen feel bigger, but it does nothing to make the raid more sucessful, as anything over 1300 is most likely overhealing that doesn't do crap.
    Anything over 1300 hps is overhealing? Now, let's imagine an easy case, like solohealing the tank on steelbreaker in an IC normal attempt. In the assumption that steelbreaker misses with half his normal punches, and assuming he hits once per 2 seconds, which is fairly standard, he'll land a normal hit every 4 seconds on average. Each of those hits will do around 20k damage, so that's 20k per 4 seconds, hence 5k dps to the tank. To keep the tank from dying a miserable death, you will then need 5000 hps to keep him from dying in the average situation.

    Now, anyone who has ever raided knows that you can't rely on the boss missing on half his hits. Imagine a 40k health tank, a healer doing exactly 5k hps, and steelbreaker punching the tank in the face. If the average situation occurs, the tank lives and everyone is happy. In a worst case scenario, steelbreaker hits tank for 20k, tank is healed to 30k before next punch which sends him to 10k, and is now healed to 20k before steelbreaker on the third punch punches the tank's face in.

    The reason why so many paladin healers are big proponents of the holy light method, is that the holy light method works both when you get a bad string of avoidance and on the average fight. The flash-spam works in most situations, but worst case scenarios that usually require the utmost healing capacity a healer can do, will, if they tax a holy light spammers healing capacity to the fullest, be literally impossible to heal through with flash spam, even with holy shock + flash spam.

  20. #40

    Re: Some advices as a Healadin

    Quote Originally Posted by Exerci
    The reason why so many paladin healers are big proponents of the holy light method, is that the holy light method works both when you get a bad string of avoidance and on the average fight.
    Precisely. And a point a lot of people who want to be snowflakes forget all too easily.

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