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  1. #1

    51.4% Arp, too much?

    recently regemmed and i have 51.4% arp (including the 10% through deep blood talents).

    with the grim toll proc its ~101%
    i read somewhere that it capped out at 100%, then i remember them saying you could go over 100% into the negatives or something to that effect, just not sure which order they said these two things.

    anyone know which it currently is or could provide a link to an armory with someone stacking high amounts or arp would be helpful.

  2. #2

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    51.4% is just fine. You could just gem some Strength if you in some way get more ArP from gear.
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  3. #3

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    You used to be able to go negative, but now it's hard capped at 100%. 101 isn't terrible imo, that's just a min/maxing situation. Shouldn't be necessary to re-gem that 1%~.

  4. #4

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    Grimtoll isn't 100% uptime either so having that extra 1.4% isn't gonna hurt in the long run.
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  5. #5

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    All posters above me except for the op are wrong extremly.

    100% is hard cap, so you should replace one gem, getting under 50% wont make you loose as many dmg as going over it with grim toll. Regemming will give you 20 dps not more.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome sluggs's Avatar
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    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    make sure your other stats are up to par because even with 100% arp if your ap and crit are lacking it wont help much and probably hurt you. also if you get runestone from 10 man hard mode thorim the proc is actually about 50 more then it says so you can socket 50 less arp with that (lost roll on only time it dropped )

  7. #7
    Warchief SoulPoetry's Avatar
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    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    it depends on your other stats. i read on EJ that some math junkies had worked out the cross over point of Str and Arp and i think it was if you can maintain ~7k Atp fully buffed, gemming for Arp is better than Str.

    but as someone else said, that 1.4% is wasted so you should get rid of it for strength.

  8. #8
    Dreadlord Sativex's Avatar
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    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    As was stated above, the grim toll does not have a 100% uptime. as long as your other stats are in the right range you should be fine if you keep stack arp. You will be under 100% arp unless you trinket pops.
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  9. #9

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    If I remember correctly, ArPen isn't like other stats where it is subject to DR, but actually quite the opposite. The more you have the more valuable it becomes. Like, there would be a bigger dps increase form 300 to 320 Arpen than from 100 to 120. So I would imagine gemming Str>ArPen would be better until you have enough ArPen from your gear to where ArPen would be better than Str, and thats when you should gem for ArPen. I'm not sure what value this is, but its seems at 51.4% ArPen is definitely worth more than Str. And with Grim Toll, since its only up for 10 sec and has a 45 sec internal CD, you shouldn't worry that it sends you over by a couple percent.

  10. #10

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    Untill you have ~6000 ap raidbuffed, Str>ArPen.

  11. #11

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by maizeandblue15
    And with Grim Toll, since its only up for 10 sec and has a 45 sec internal CD, you shouldn't worry that it sends you over by a couple percent.
    Keep in mind that being over 50% Arp will disminish Grim Toll's value accordingly, and some other trinket might prove to be better?

  12. #12
    High Overlord Kangg's Avatar
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    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    As was stated above, the grim toll does not have a 100% uptime. as long as your other stats are in the right range you should be fine if you keep stack arp. You will be under 100% arp unless you trinket pops.
    If your trinket procs you past 100% armor pen, it becomes wasted itemization, therefor a loss of potential overall dps. A trinket that procs you over the armor pen cap would also have a loss in value, because you aren't utilizing it's full proc. That being said, 1% isn't gamebreaking, unless you are extremely attentive to detail as far as min-maxing. If it were me I would just swap out 1 armor pen gem for a str gem.

  13. #13

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    OP here, this is my armory for those that are interested.

    i was at 4450ap & 21.??% Arp UB before regemming to arp.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ourne&n=Stratt

  14. #14

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    What you have to consider is that the uptime of the trinket isn't 100% (closer to 20% IIRC). This means the other 80% of the time you have less ArP than if you weren't limiting yourself simply because of the proc. That being said, the only downside to going over 50% static is that you could potentially reduce the value of Grim Toll's proc such that another trinket would be more valuable.

    This is the same situation that arose with warlocks stacking tons of haste and pinging off the GCD during heroism. Is it wasted itemization under those short duration conditions? Yes. Is it wasted itemization under normal conditions? Definitely not.

  15. #15

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    Nicely put Gerian.
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  16. #16

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerian
    What you have to consider is that the uptime of the trinket isn't 100% (closer to 20% IIRC). This means the other 80% of the time you have less ArP than if you weren't limiting yourself simply because of the proc. That being said, the only downside to going over 50% static is that you could potentially reduce the value of Grim Toll's proc such that another trinket would be more valuable.

    This is the same situation that arose with warlocks stacking tons of haste and pinging off the GCD during heroism. Is it wasted itemization under those short duration conditions? Yes. Is it wasted itemization under normal conditions? Definitely not.
    if it uptime is ~20% i wonder what kind of results someone stacking arp to the core would be like, theres still a whole host of arp pieces i havnt got yet and im sitting at 510 rating.

    i think i could get another 400ish rating if i really geared for it...well got the drops rather :P

    and looking through the loot from 3.2 theres alot of arp gear that looks perfect.

  17. #17

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by dakhdoun
    ArP is over 20% more effective than crit/haste/agility. So as long as you aren't sacrificing hit/expertise below the cap (Which is more effective than ArP once you reach the Grim Tol cap), it is still worth stacking ArP, but it becomes much much much weaker than Strength meaning you must replace all ArP gems and I don't think theres enough gear in the game to make you do all this.
    This is important for the most part. Many spreadsheets and values show that even when you hit a point where ArP is better than Str (APE), the line tends to be very fine, meaning as soon as you BARELY even start de-valuing ArP such as going over the "Grim Toll cap," it can very quickly drop below strength, even when it's such a tiny difference.

  18. #18

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    Correct me if I'm wrong but 50% ArP on the toon sheet + 50% from a grim toll proc + raid debuffs such as sunder and faerie fire = way more then 100% ArP

    This devalues the grim toll numbers somewhat because only about half the proc is effective.

  19. #19

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    Armor debuffs create a new boss armor value that armor pen then ignores.

    10k armor turns into 7500 with both armor debuffs. THEN your armor pen % applies, if you have 50% armor pen the boss will not have 2500 armor left, he will have 3750.

  20. #20

    Re: 51.4% Arp, too much?

    You should always gem strength over armor pen. Yes armor pen is a good passive stat, but strength is where the money is.

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