Interrupt Comparison

[Mataus]

link me a single one thats 8-10 second lock out.... please dont throw out random numbers like they are fact >=(

Please note Counterspell. So, I was a little off with 10s, but there are plenty of lockouts that are more than twice as long as wind shock's.


Wind Shock (soon to be shear)
Cooldown: 6s
Lockout: 2s

33% Lockout time


Kick
Cooldown: 10s
Lockout: 5s

50% Lockout time

Counterspell
Cooldown: 24s
Lockout: 8s

33% Lockout time

Pummel
Cooldown: 10s
Lockout: 4s

40% Lockout time

Shield Bash
Cooldown: 12s
Lockout: 6s

50% Lockout time

Mind Freeze
Cooldown: 10s
Lockout: 4s

40% Lockout time

Spell Lock (Felhunter)
Cooldown: 24s
Lockout: 6s
(silences too): 3s

25% Lockout time




So, in short: Melee have longer lockouts than casters (all of them are 40% - 50% lockout times compared to 33% for casters). Moreover, from the discussion that Wind Shock is "op" with such a short cooldown. It really isn't. It barely interrupts longer than the GCD. It only offers a 33% lockout time if "spammed." This also requires the most micromanagement of any interrupt.

[Dahkeus]

Well, there's a flaw in this argument. There's more to an interrupt than how much averaged overall shutout time it can theoretically provide in a PvP fight. It's not simply about how much casting time you can prevent, but when you can focus that casting time lockout. You can't simply justify a long lockout time with a very long cooldown.

If you had an interrupt with a 5 minute cooldown that had a 30 second lockout time, it would be very OP. Of course, this is an extreme example, but it illustrates the concept.

Of course, this does defend the argument about Wind Shear not necessarily being OP.

You may be able to snipe more casts, but you don't have the same window of opportunity to burn a defenseless player like you do with something like Counterspell

[LonezWulf]

Looking at the felhound it doesnt seem as bad as it really is in pvp. I hate warlocks faceroll asdfasdfasdfasdfwtfimstuck

[Mataus]

Well, there's a flaw in this argument. There's more to an interrupt than how much averaged overall shutout time it can theoretically provide in a PvP fight. It's not simply about how much casting time you can prevent, but when you can focus that casting time lockout. You can't simply justify a long lockout time with a very long cooldown.

If you had an interrupt with a 5 minute cooldown that had a 30 second lockout time, it would be very OP. Of course, this is an extreme example, but it illustrates the concept.

Of course, this does defend the argument about Wind Shear not necessarily being OP.

You may be able to snipe more casts, but you don't have the same window of opportunity to burn a defenseless player like you do with something like Counterspell

I don't understand your argument. So long lockouts are OP but so is wind shear? A 2 s lockout is just 1 spell interrupt. A 8 s lockout is death to a healer in many situations, and if it isn't death for the healer, it's death to someone on their team if it's a 1 healer team. It's also an extra button to push every 6 s (may not sound like much, but in PVP where speed is essential... having to constantly interrupt if you want to be effective can be tedious and all while keeping within range).

For people arguing that Wind Shear is OP because it's an interrupt on a short cooldown, it is no more "OP" than kick, counterspell, or any of the other interrupts I listed. It's really all a function of lockout time based on percentages. The higher % you can lockout a caster/healer, the more you've effectively shut down someone on the other team. It also has to do with "windows of opportunity" as everyone knows in pvp. The longer the interrupt, the larger the window of opportunity.

[General Vezax]

The melee ones also have to be used in melee range, while caster ones have a long range

[monkeysnarf]

What about strangulate?

[Melynx]

...Lol? 2s lockout isn't OP.

For Enhancement, this being off the CD with other shocks brings them closer to Rogues, but it's really not the same. A Rogue can CC you between his kicks, so can a DK. Even Warriors can if they're Prot or good.

A Shaman has Imp Fire Nova and Hex as his forms of CC. Hardcore. Enhancement gets a 2 sec stun on a 3 minute CD. That's just plain awesome right there.

I was about to point out that I play a Resto Shaman, and that if it was more like Counterspell, we'd probably be overpowered. Then I came to my senses and remembered Resto Shamans are beyond saving in PvP.

[tofu_soldier]

What about strangulate?

it's a silence, not interrupt.

[Nd]

ITT: OP states different classes are different.

[Mataus]

ITT: OP states different classes are different.

Wow, you're a genius. The point was to make people aware of the differences between interrupts. People have been saying "Wind Shear will be OP." It will remain IDENTICAL to how it is now except not share a cooldown with other shocks. Moreover, in comparison to other interrupts it is on par or less optimal.

[Accuser.]

Commendable for all the effort put into it, but the comparison is meaningless.

As posted above, a 30s lockout with a 5m CD would be OP...

but so would a 0.1s lockout (with interrupt) on a 2s CD. By your calculations, a 0.1s lockout on a 2s CD would only be 5% lockout time, but I'd take it over the others any day.

[Mataus]

Commendable for all the effort put into it, but the comparison is meaningless.

As posted above, a 30s lockout with a 5m CD would be OP...

but so would a 0.1s lockout (with interrupt) on a 2s CD. By your calculations, a 0.1s lockout on a 2s CD would only be 5% lockout time, but I'd take it over the others any day.

yes, but none of those exist. 2s lockout with a 6s cooldown vs a 5s lockout with a 10s cooldown. They aren't horribly different. The difference is the percent lockout time is higher for kick though you have to be in melee range to use it.

[Accuser.]

Right, and my point is that the arbitrary measure "lockout time" is basically meaningless. Some spells have a longer lockout and longer CD, this one has a shorter lockout and shorter CD... imo this is just as good due to a shorter CD being better able to counteract fake casts.

But if you guys dont want it, a 2s lockout on a 6s CD would be a nice addition for my healadin.

[Mataus]

Right, and my point is that the arbitrary measure "lockout time" is basically meaningless. Some spells have a longer lockout and longer CD, this one has a shorter lockout and shorter CD... imo this is just as good due to a shorter CD being better able to counteract fake casts.

But if you guys dont want it, a 2s lockout on a 6s CD would be a nice addition for my healadin.

lol I didn't say it was bad. I said it isn't OP. People in multiple threads have started stating that the "new" Wind Shear will be OP when first it is the same as Wind Shock with the exception of allowing dps/debuff shocks and second it isn't very different from available interrupts. Is it bad? No. Is it OP? No.

[hammybiter]

yes, but none of those exist. 2s lockout with a 6s cooldown vs a 5s lockout with a 10s cooldown. They aren't horribly different. The difference is the percent lockout time is higher for kick though you have to be in melee range to use it.

It is huge.. You can lock the person out twice in that ten seconds of combat compared to the person only being able to do it once..

That is probably where people are coming from..

[Accuser.]

By the emphasis on melee's "lockout time" I was under the impression you were claiming it was underpowered...

As a healadin, I'm not a big fan of interrupts in general, but I'm pretty sure I could deal with Wind Shear in PvP and Shaman need all the help they can get atm.

Personally, I see a: "mind freeze -> deathgrip -> strangulate -> mindfreeze" combo being much worse, along with whatever the healer could dish out. It's kind of sad though, it's tough to buff enhancement shaman's PvP ability without making Elemental OP. Personally, I'd say a glyph to buff Wind Shear (longer lockout, melee range?) could do just the thing.

[Mataus]

Well neither elemental nor enhancement are exactly "blazing" the path for pvp. Elemental is only strong in 5's.

[Omanley]

first of all, people seem to be unable to see one certain fact

WINDSHOCK IS STILL THE SAME AS IT WAS!!

honestly, we have earth shock since release, and it had up till now and will have until 3.2 the same interrupt function like windshock at the moment has, and will have until 3.2 .

the thing that changes is that now one of our main sources of damage output and utility ( flame shock/elemental, frost-shock, earth-shock/enhance ) now isn´t tied to our ability to interrupt anymore. this gives us the freedom to slow targets without taking interrupt out of the equation. we can now freely do damage, because we wont have to wait with our shocks for the oncoming heal, we wont have to fear gcd.

yes, we can interupt from range. we always could. it´s some of the features the shaman class always had.

it´s like me suddenly whining: bohoo rogues and druids can stealth, why cant i also stealth? it´s so unfair.

It is huge.. You can lock the person out twice in that ten seconds of combat compared to the person only being able to do it once..

That is probably where people are coming from..

outside of your kick, you can gouge, blind, slow casts ( mind numbing poison ), half heals ( wound poison ) and stun. you also have with garotte a 3 second silence in your repertoire. all shaman have is wind shear, and very unreliable stuns ( if there are some people not content with us having it, i wouldn´t mind to trade, honestly ).

also, dont forget that with talents that reduce lock out time, healers can almost instantly start casting again, i would rather have a 4-5 seconds "window of opportunity" than a interrupt-2 heals-interrupt, which doesn´t do anything at all.

i dont get where all this bitching about a mere interrupt comes from

[Rompy]

Its a nice boost for all Shaman. Maybe this and GW change might warrant me leveling mine to 80.

[Instant]

Commendable for all the effort put into it, but the comparison is meaningless.

As posted above, a 30s lockout with a 5m CD would be OP...

but so would a 0.1s lockout (with interrupt) on a 2s CD. By your calculations, a 0.1s lockout on a 2s CD would only be 5% lockout time, but I'd take it over the others any day.

Spells with 1.5 sec cast time would still get through that, you realize that? And noone uses longer cast time spells.

Point is, this spell was always in game, i dont have a clue why suddently people think it's OP, just because shaman can do two things at once? Pfff. Imagine what would it be like if warrior couldnt use Mortal Strike on a target he just harmstringed. Or a rogue couldnt stun a target whom he just has poisoned, etc.

Everyone who think this is OP must be insane, and clearly doesnt want enh shaman to even have a chance to be viable. This discussion is pointless, really...