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  1. #1

    Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    Change all mail and plate spellpower gear to 'metallic' pieces that can be changed to plate OR mail by visiting a blacksmith-type NPC.

    What do you think ?

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    Or make agility give plus healing to shamans thru talents and strength give healing and mana to paladin thru talents, problem solved.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  3. #3
    The Patient Anuri's Avatar
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    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground
    Or make agility give plus healing to shamans thru talents and strength give healing and mana to paladin thru talents, problem solved.
    The user has been banned for this post
    Im just that awesome >.<

  4. #4

    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    sure, and convert strength to def with talents in protection trees, and class spells learned by the trainer that multiply armor value... or just have juste a piece that says 'armor piece: power 173' which you can equip in any slot and it gives you the stats needed for you to be competitive. How fun would that be ?

  5. #5

    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    I actually kinda like the OP's idea.
    Only problem with this is that pallies would want the R Shammy (mp/5) gear AND the E shammy (crit/haste) gear, which would result in shammy QQ.
    So it would require a 2nd change: Make mp/5 useful for Ele Shammies, perhaps through a talent like "Increases your Spellpower by an amount equal to 5%/10%/15% of your mana while casting." Numbers would need tweaking, but i feel like it could work.
    Bringing the "hardcoar" to casual since 2009.

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    OR they could be smart about how armor drops and not make it random, and have the raid/instance read the group makeup/specs every time you enter so it never drops armor no one wants, and if it does it will be something usable but not an upgrade so it gets disenchanted. Blizz could have did this long ago, I dunno what all this random loot shit is since Vanilla. There would be far less QQ for those random pally/shaman armor drops no one can use because there's none of them in the raid.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  7. #7

    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground
    OR they could be smart about how gear drops and not make it random, and have the raid/instance read the group makeup/specs every time you enter so it never drops gear no one wants, and if it does it will be something usable but not an upgrade so it gets disenchanted. Blizz could have did this long ago, I dunno what all this random loot shit is since Vanilla. There would be far less QQ for those random pally/shaman gear drops no one can use because there's none of them in the raid.
    No. for SO many reasons. To name a few:
    1) That would be VERY hard from a design standpoint if you factor in 25 people with 2 specs each
    2) Oftentimes (in lower tiers especially) i'll be running in say, resto PvE/resto PvP (druid) in Naxx, but I'll want to gear up my feral set... So... it will never happen... So.... Fail.
    3) It takes away from the RNG of the entire raiding scenario, which Blizz (and myself personally) wants to keep in effect. Raiding and expecting a good drop every boss is just ridiculous. The point is that you MAY get the item you need, or you MAY not.

    In short, i think that loot in general is perfectly fine, but healing plate is one of those things like leather tanking gear or leather/mail hit gear, only used by 1 spec, so it got removed.
    Bringing the "hardcoar" to casual since 2009.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    Quote Originally Posted by YigiBareTank
    No. for SO many reasons. To name a few:
    1) That would be VERY hard from a design standpoint if you factor in 25 people with 2 specs each
    2) Oftentimes (in lower tiers especially) i'll be running in say, resto PvE/resto PvP (druid) in Naxx, but I'll want to gear up my feral set... So... it will never happen... So.... Fail.
    3) It takes away from the RNG of the entire raiding scenario, which Blizz (and myself personally) wants to keep in effect. Raiding and expecting a good drop every boss is just ridiculous. The point is that you MAY get the item you need, or you MAY not.

    In short, i think that loot in general is perfectly fine, but healing plate is one of those things like leather tanking gear or leather/mail hit gear, only used by 1 spec, so it got removed.
    Im talking Armor, Weapons/trinkets/off-hands/shields/rings/necks/relics would all still be random.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  9. #9

    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground
    Im talking Armor, Weapons/trinkets/off-hands/shields/rings/necks/relics would all still be random.
    So, not trying to flame or be mean, but, it looks to me like you're saying:
    "I'm not talking about screwing up ALL itemization, just 2/3 of it"
    They tried using a sunmote system in SW, and while it DID work to an extent, it mostly just lead to QQ because it caused unnecessary loot drama.
    The way it is now, the drama is at a minimum, although the QQ DOES abound, which I think is mainly just due to greedy players who are unwilling to kill a boss a few times to actually see it's drops.
    For example:
    In BC, i farmed Seth (norm) about 60 times (and i'm not exxagerating, i wish the stats page could back me up) for the Consecration Libram on my paladin to use in MH, and I finally gave up. I saw the Throwing Darts drop at least 20 times, and we sharded them every single time.
    Did i complain? of course i complained, i really wanted that libram.
    Did i QQ on MMO-Forums? Of course not, because I understand that RNG is RNG, and it's what WoW has always been, is, and always will be based on.
    Bringing the "hardcoar" to casual since 2009.

  10. #10
    Pit Lord iktankniet's Avatar
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    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    to the OP. have you tried the search function? there is a whole topic about it already.

  11. #11
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    Quote Originally Posted by iktankniet
    to the OP. have you tried the search function? there is a whole topic about it already.
    This.

    But to add constructive criticism, a better thing to do would make Frost/UH DKs and Holy/Ret Paladins use Spellpower Plate: A simple Int > STR talent could be used, and somehow make MP5 viable to both specs.

  12. #12

    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    Please, do not make us wear dps gear. Just don't. We are healers, for god's sake. If loot is a problem, the loot is the problem, not us. Just make more stuff drop, like it was at TBC.

  13. #13
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiss
    Please, do not make us wear dps gear. Just don't. We are healers, for god's sake. If loot is a problem, the loot is the problem, not us. Just make more stuff drop, like it was at TBC.
    Thats the opposite direction Blizzard wants to go in terms of optimal item drops.

  14. #14

    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    I myself don't want them to homogenize plate drops. I think it's stupid, stat wise, and aesthetics. It would be weird seeing holy paladins healing in death knight look-a-like offsets. Make no sense.
    Here's my user friendly signature...enjoy.

  15. #15

    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    Solution? What's the problem? Except for kids being whiny?

    And this is coming from a clothy who has to compete against Priests, Mages, and Warlocks for gear and Druids even have some BiS cloth gear. Not sure about Shaman and I've rarely ever seen a paladin wear cloth, but seriously.

    There is no problem.
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  16. #16

    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    No more homogenization please!

    The best solution, unless you have three or more holy paladins, is to lower the drop rate slightly on SP plate. Holy Pals will still gear up faster than everybody else. I mean, if SP plate goes to the shard bucket all the time since the paladins have everything already, why not lower the drop rate just a little bit to account for the fact that one spec uses it. If you were to homogenize SP plate with DPS plate or something, you would STILL have problems, such as hit/expertise and MP5, and it would create even more competition for DPS plate.

  17. #17

    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    I don't think you guys get the idea. This is why 'homogenization' has become an "I'm unhappy" stand-in. You people aren't even thinking about what it really means.

    If holy paladins started wearing, say, tanking gear, it would REDUCE homogenization.

    Let's imagine there are 10 end game bosses, each boss drops one item for each armor class/type.

    Healer Cloth serves 2 specs
    Caster Cloth serves 7 specs
    Caster Leather serves 2 specs
    Melee Leather serves 4 specs
    Caster Mail serves 2 specs
    Melee Mail serves 4 specs
    Tanking Plate serves 5 specs (Assuming all three DK trees can tank)
    Melee Plate serves 6 specs (Again, assuming all three DK specs can DPS)
    Healer Plate serves 1 spec.

    Most bosses drop an item that potentially appeals to one of each category above, plus a few weapons and trinkets and stuff.

    If each boss drops 10 armor-type items, that means each boss drops one extra for one group.

    If we remove healer plate from the list, and merge it into, say, tanking plate, that means there's two spare items on the list that might appeal to you, instead of just one. That means you could have two Holy Paladins who have the same ilevel, but are wearing totally different gear, if there's 9 bosses available.

    More items that are good for each spec = MORE OPTIONS = LESS HOMOGENIZATION

  18. #18

    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    My own submission would be to make Holy Paladins wear tanking plate.

    As both tanking and DPS plate contain stamina, I think it wouldn't affect Ret much to remove Sheath of Light and Touched by the Light in favor of a trainable stamina to Spell Power conversion, perhaps replacing those portions of the talents with healing benefits that fit the class more.

    Touched by the Light could instead increase your critical heal chance by a certain amout when holy shield is active, to facilitate performing some healing backup duties when you're not the primary tank.

    Similarly, Sheathe of Light could allow emergency healing by increasing the amount you heal with Flash of Light by 10% every time you cast it, stacking up to 5 times, but the effect only lasts 3 seconds, so you must be casting it back to back to achieve full benefit, and of course Art of War makes this more feasible, and your damage would have to fall right down the pooper to support it.

    Now provide Holy Paladins with a talent, preferably early on, that either scales their mana pool to their defense rating, or perhaps change illumination to a static chance equivalent to their total block/dodge/parry chance to restore 100% of a spell's cost.

    Of course this has a dangerous side-effect of making Holy Paladins harder to kill for melee characters, with their already high armor, toss on higher HP and higher dodge/parry/block chances, and it might be too much for PvP, so perhaps an active talent that trades off some of that survivability for maximum healing effectiveness is in order, such as making Illumination a toggle that actually sacrifices that block/dodge/parry chance in exchange for the sustainability.

  19. #19

    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft
    No more homogenization please!

    The best solution, unless you have three or more holy paladins, is to lower the drop rate slightly on SP plate. Holy Pals will still gear up faster than everybody else. I mean, if SP plate goes to the shard bucket all the time since the paladins have everything already, why not lower the drop rate just a little bit to account for the fact that one spec uses it. If you were to homogenize SP plate with DPS plate or something, you would STILL have problems, such as hit/expertise and MP5, and it would create even more competition for DPS plate.
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronalis
    Rule #84 of WoW: Saying "Rotation" doesn't automatically make you a good player... or even a competent one.

  20. #20

    Re: Solution for spellpower plate pally gear

    All of these conversion ideas are pretty much the same tbh.. and all have the same flaws... forcing ret gear to be used for holy is ridiculous for a couple of reasons.. firstly you'd have people running around with 2k SP and 4k AP. Weaponquickswap woudl become the norm and despite holy not having crusader strike or divine storm.. they still have plenty of potential with judgements and holy shock crits, as well as the survivability they have now.. Or they could go for some high end prot gear, which also carries tons of strength.. now they have somethign akin to 1.8k SP, 3k AP and tankesque avoidance stats... Protholy would become Holyprot.
    Either way, arena players would cry because the combination would be overpowered.

    The second reason is that there are already enough specs trying to get plate DPS and plate tanking gear as it is.

    As for the OPs solution, why bother fiddling with things that much.. why not make mp5 desireable to paladins and just stop making SP plate. Give paladins somethign akin to armored to the teeth to push them towards mail instead of jumping on the bandwagon and rolling on cloth. the talent would have to be somethign like multiplies armour received from items by 2.5 (shields not included).. and then another talent closeby in the tree converts armour into spellcrit. Holy palas wear mail, everyone is happy.

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