Feral tank advise.

[Yohassakura]

Use a spec more like: 00/55/16 (Or one of the other specs which are on the bear tank guide) Try to get a bit more hit, and my stats are: 152 hit, 29 expertise and My Armory if you wanna see my tank stats. I generate 6.5-7k tps on tank + spank when i have enough rage and i've done hardmodes fine. I don't always go on my druid as it's my alt but meh, i've tanked a few as you can see :P - I'd say that your survival stats are fine but you definately don't want to just stack stam, get more agi (almost all of your gems currently are +24 stam) . - Remeber, more agi means more threat because of more crits 8)

[Imadroodlol]

Spend some DKP and pick up Twisted Visage when it drops.

10 XT-002 Deconstructor kills and never seen it drop :

[Imadroodlol]

Thanks for everyone's help, I will try and pick up the belt from badges that's for sure. Also, I have the Mechanists bindings from FL 25, should I be using that over the PvP bracers?
Will upgrade the enchants aswell but will probably get the badge cloak for the hit.

[Sunshine]

10 XT-002 Deconstructor kills and never seen it drop :

I feel your pain! I just got mine recently. You'll get it eventually!

Also, I have the Mechanists bindings from FL 25, should I be using that over the PvP bracers?
Will upgrade the enchants aswell but will probably get the badge cloak for the hit.

Mechanist's bindings are fantastic. You might also want to consider a greatness trinket -- the agi will help both dodge and threat.

[xebtria]

if you have the ressources OR the money, you can buy 12 runed orbs and the remaining materials and get the death-warmed belt and the footpads of silence. both have quite a big chunk of hit AND are great tanking for their slots - they are or they are almost BiS for tanking. and you shouldn't have problems with the hitcap anymore, if you have these.

[Igotrabies]

...try to pick up Twisted Visage, although it is inferior to Origin of Nightmares.

Due to Savage Defense the 400 plus extra AP, Crit and Hit since the bear in question is lacking hit makes Twisted Visage far superior then Origin of Nightmares. Regardless if it's for this bear Origin of Nightmares (armor isn't as valuable as it used to be) is a complete downgrade for feral tanking.

To the original poster on this thread. Take the advice of picking up another profession. JCing, BSing, LWing or Enchanting are all good choices that are useful for tanking and for kitty.

[Astemus]

Due to Savage Defense the 400 plus extra AP, Crit and Hit since the bear in question is lacking hit makes Twisted Visage far superior then Origin of Nightmares. Regardless if it's for this bear Origin of Nightmares (armor isn't as valuable as it used to be) is a complete downgrade for feral tanking.

What?! Don't listen to this, Igotrabies is high or ill-informed. You should NEVER be selecting gear based on SD. SD is just a bonus. If you visit any site that knows what they're talking about, they will all say the same.

And Origins is the 2nd BiS feral tanking weapon. Armor is still very important. Want to upgrade your wooden eagle stick? The only option is the PVP weapons.

If you want real advice about tanking, there are far better sites to get it. I would be wary of any advice from people around here (Including me! Go to EJ or Tankspot and see for yourself!)

[SoulPoetry]

What?! Don't listen to this, Igotrabies is high or ill-informed. You should NEVER be selecting gear based on SD. SD is just a bonus. If you visit any site that knows what they're talking about, they will all say the same.

And Origins is the 2nd BiS feral tanking weapon. Armor is still very important. Want to upgrade your wooden eagle stick? The only option is the PVP weapons.

If you want real advice about tanking, there are far better sites to get it. I would be wary of any advice from people around here (Including me! Go to EJ or Tankspot and see for yourself!)

i've clicked this thread twice and both times i have been greeted with misinformed/high and mighty "advice." for general run-of-the-mill tanking TV is a lot better because the value of armor decreases as you get closer to the cap of 75% damage reduction (at 25k armor, an extra 700 is going to provide an extra ~0.5% damage reduction, higher values even less so) whereas more hit, AP and crit greatly increase threat by comparison, with the latter 2 contributing to SD uptime which is gets more valuable if you're being hit for less.

i'm not saying Origin is useless but saying it should only be dropped in favour of PvP items is just wrong. for the majority of the content you'd be better off with TV, or various other Ulduar weapons, over Origin because the extra armor is just not needed. obviously you might want to put together specialised mitigation gear for some hard modes, in which case, Origin is a strong choice.

edit: in context of the original post, TV should be fine for 10 man hard modes with the exception of Thorim and General if healing on you is a problem.

[Torzak]

And Origins is the 2nd BiS feral tanking weapon. Armor is still very important. Want to upgrade your wooden eagle stick? The only option is the PVP weapons.

Yeah, lots of misinformation in here.

This is just not true. There are like 8 weapons better than origin of nightmares for general use tanking.

If you have a very specific need for the extra stam/armor, then sure, use OoN.

Otherwise, you may want to take a look at this list for tanking weapons:
http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filt....9:7.4:7.4:6.1

[Leafre]

What?! Don't listen to this, Igotrabies is high or ill-informed. You should NEVER be selecting gear based on SD. SD is just a bonus. If you visit any site that knows what they're talking about, they will all say the same.

And Origins is the 2nd BiS feral tanking weapon. Armor is still very important. Want to upgrade your wooden eagle stick? The only option is the PVP weapons.

If you want real advice about tanking, there are far better sites to get it. I would be wary of any advice from people around here (Including me! Go to EJ or Tankspot and see for yourself!)

You are the tank, who would trade +10 stats for +18 stamina on chest, huh?

[zmieer]

i've clicked this thread twice and both times i have been greeted with misinformed/high and mighty "advice."

No you!
It should be obvious for anyone who's thinking he knows shit about tanking that armor scales linearly with time to live. If armor didn't have the gain curve it has now it would have had increasing returns just like avoidance had in tbc. Also, SD scales with armor in mitigation%. Many here have given the advice that you should go read up on tankspot or EJ, I suggest you do that.

[lilbandit]

Thanks for your insight gear wise but have you got anything to suggest about the threat problem? The only thing I can think of is my terrible hit rating :/

your hit rating and expertise are too low, that is causing your threat to be low.

[Sunshine]

No you!
It should be obvious for anyone who's thinking he knows shit about tanking that armor scales linearly with time to live. If armor didn't have the gain curve it has now it would have had increasing returns just like avoidance had in tbc. Also, SD scales with armor in mitigation%. Many here have given the advice that you should go read up on tankspot or EJ, I suggest you do that.

Armor is great, sure. That's why Origin makes a good weapon when you need the absolute max TTL. But the stats provided by TV are simply much better overall -- it's 19 ilvls higher! While it's a bad idea to gear specifically for SD in the general case (for example, by taking a strength/crit gem over an agi gem, or whatever), this is one case where it *does* make sense. The math is in, and TV wins in the general case.

Why should SD scale with armor? If you have more armor, you're taking smaller hits in general... but SD is a flat amount off the final hit, so it doesn't matter whether those hits are big or small. If armor could reduce a hit to zero so SD would be saved for the next hit, it would be great, but it can't -- armor is always a percentage, so it will never reduce to zero.

[zmieer]

If you have more armor, you're taking smaller hits in general... but SD is a flat amount off the final hit

You explained it to yourself. :-*
It does not increase the amount absorbed, that's right. But because of the reduced damage from armor SD absorbs a larger percentage of the hit, hence I said "mitigation%". If you want to extrapolate 'til where every hit on you when SD is up is fully negated you can either raise armor or AP, but no other stat would do this for you, and that's why SD scales with armor. And just like you said, armor mitigation is always a percentage, and is also limited by a cap, the only thing that can increase mitigation from there is SD. You were well aware of how it works, how could you not have come to the right conclusion?

[Selverein]

Maybe it's a language barrier issue but I'm not sure the point you're trying to make.

[Sunshine]

You explained it to yourself. :-*
It does not increase the amount absorbed, that's right. But because of the reduced damage from armor SD absorbs a larger percentage of the hit, hence I said "mitigation%". If you want to extrapolate 'til where every hit on you when SD is up is fully negated you can either raise armor or AP, but no other stat would do this for you, and that's why SD scales with armor. And just like you said, armor mitigation is always a percentage, and is also limited by a cap, the only thing that can increase mitigation from there is SD. You were well aware of how it works, how could you not have come to the right conclusion?

So, by saying "SD scales with armor", you're saying "SD and armor both increase physical mitigation, but they do it separately"? This is true. But when you say "SD scales with armor", it sounds like you're saying "the more armor you have, the more SD mitigates", which is false. On the other hand, saying "SD scales with dodge" -> "the more dodge you have, the better SD becomes" is true.

But if you understand that they both increase mitigation.... then what was your original point? TV is bad because it doesn't have armor, while Origin does? And what about TV's mitigation via SD?

Maybe it's a language barrier issue but I'm not sure the point you're trying to make.

Maybe I'm just braindead today... too much work.

[zmieer]

On my behalf? Pardon, trying my best :P
The point I'm trying to argue is not which staff is better or what you should gem. Only wanted to point out that SoulPoetry, while being cocky and blaming other for being misinformed, actually was wrong himself claiming that armor has diminishing returns. Also wanted to point out the role of SD in general. And what affects it, without saying if it should prioritized or not.

[zmieer]

But when you say "SD scales with armor", it sounds like you're saying "the more armor you have, the more SD mitigates", which is false.

That's what I'm saying it does - percentage wise, not the actual amount absorbed. Remember, tanking is not about taking less damage. It's about being able to take more damage. I know druids have this complex about being sponges, but there's no need, you have it all going for you. My warrior alt is jealous. And even though I have an 80 druid too, I won't experience the imbaness os bears, because tanking as a bear is so damn boring after you've tanked as warrior. 8)

[frester]

but but armour has DR, more you get less you're getting point for point...
and SD will gain much more from TV anyway, as all your stats in fact(save armour)

[Igotrabies]

What?! Don't listen to this, Igotrabies is high or ill-informed. You should NEVER be selecting gear based on SD. SD is just a bonus. If you visit any site that knows what they're talking about, they will all say the same.

And Origins is the 2nd BiS feral tanking weapon. Armor is still very important. Want to upgrade your wooden eagle stick? The only option is the PVP weapons.

If you want real advice about tanking, there are far better sites to get it. I would be wary of any advice from people around here (Including me! Go to EJ or Tankspot and see for yourself!)

This weapon provides 20 more Agility, 400 AP (100 GUARANTEED additional melee damage absorbed when SD is up AND more TPS), 86 Crit Rating (2% more chance that SD will be active and more TPS) and 70 Hit rating (if needed, is for TPS and for growl). If you say TPS doesn't matter then tank Hodir when your mages have over 12k TPS and tell me threat doesn't matter. Yes I still hold threat on them... what can i say I'm a beast hehe.

My point from my previous post was not to advise the original poster on this thread to gear, gem / enchant for SD. It was merely to point out that the Higher Armor and Stam count is nullified in MOST cases due the previously mentioned reasons.

While I will agree that the PVP weapons are UBER sexy and are BiS I will have to disagree with you when you state that they are the only upgrade. Another thing worth mentioning is while EJ is still a site that I use frequently. I find there 'fact sheets' to be out dated at times. Either that or they are still biased and insist on following their RAWR programs faithfully even when it states that Defenders Code is BiS for trinks. EJ still states that Gatekeeper and the Keystone Great Ring heroics are still BiS pre Ulduar... yeah. It's not much different on tank spot last time I checked.

Don't get me wrong, I use Gatekeeper still. It's an amazing ring and itemized perfectly for what a feral needs (I would take Agi over Dodge but I will cut Blizzard some slack :P) I just plan on replacing it with the ring off of Auriaya to go along with the Leviathan Coil... unless I need the extra Armor.