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  1. #1

    How to fix Retri

    Posted it on the official Forum, and it thought it would post it here too,

    Hello Guys....

    I just saw the changed that was made to SoV/SoCor....

    And then it hit me... "i can come up with a way to fix Retri without making them too overpowered in PvE or PvP"...

    Take a look..

    http://war-tools.com/t64138.html


    Gimme some Feedback,

    Edit: Guys.. I have Totally Redesigned the spec, Take a look at it now.. and gimme some feedback

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans zcks's Avatar
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    Re: [ATTENTION] - How to fix Retri

    They never should have expected changing seals to fix our problems anyway, seals are the number once cause of our short term burst and long term dps sucking. They should have just taken out blood left sov the way it was on live then gave us a larger variety of attacks with differant effects & shared cooldowns. That would have givin us more long term dps buy spacing our burst out more and givin ret variety in its play style.
    The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
    1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
    2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
    3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.

  3. #3

    Re: How to fix Retri

    DW would require a complete overhaul of the spec; it is based on slow 2h weapons and always has been, DW would be a bad idea for more than just lore, it just doesn't fit with anything about the spec.

  4. #4

    Re: How to fix Retri

    >Weapon Specialization

    Wow, OP much?
    +10% to all weapon damage, +25% to OH weapon damage, +5 expertise and +5% to hit while dual wielding? Get a grip.
    Everybody out of the god damn way. You got a hat full of bomb, a fist full of penis, and a head full of empty.

  5. #5

    Re: How to fix Retri

    As others said, would really just not work for pallies, and it wouldnt really "fix" it with the talents you made there-

    With the double stacks of Blood corruption, 20% more dmg on crusader, on both weps, the extra strength in prot, like wtf.
    Quote Originally Posted by gunner_recall
    One time, I stunned a rogue. I lolled.

  6. #6

    Re: How to fix Retri

    >Divine Armor
    3 Strength for every 350 armor? Are you crazy?
    That's like 8ish AP and compared to other class's way better. Rethink your talents.

  7. #7
    Zoialord
    Guest

    Re: How to fix Retri

    So this is what we get when we have a SoV nerf as big as this last one...

    People wanting pally's to DW.. roll a DK spec frost and pick up ToT job done, make your own little background like one of mine (fallen paladin, i.e got killed ).

    I agree with the person who said we don't need it. Even if the SoV change goe's live Ret's will deal with it same as we always have. We ain't really ever been top of the food chain so to speak or the stints we did have were very erm brief lol.

    Some Ret's will whine and QQ, other's will bring sensible math and worked out solution's (that may or may not be listened to in the end). But some of us will still be Ret.. As far as I'm concerned they can make it the most crappy spec you can have and It would still feel right for me. I quested and grouped before fanatiscism had Threat Reduction, i went along with all the "balancing" we had back then, i even went with the different seals for the pally factions.

    But getting to the point I will still be Ret as my main spec come 3.2, I'll still be Ret when 3.3 hit's and when the new expansion comes i will still be ret then no matter what blizz do to the spec. I have very little faith in Blizz getting it right, it's taken them 4 years of "tweaking" and they still cant reach a point where they want Ret's to be.

    The SoV change is for atleast a while going to have the effect of "killing" Ret, but what it wont do is kill the Ret's that seen all this before.. it wont kill the one's who love the spec not just because its "omfwtfbbq" burst we love it because imo it's the "True" paladin, large Two hander running around smashing anything undead to pieces.

    Aslong as WoW has PvP/Arena it will never have a balanced "Retribution" Paladin in there. Ret's are built solely around our burst and some of the utility we used to bring (which we dont anymore). People keep saying about our Utility, apart from blessings we have very little. Hands are great but people have to remember very situational, Seals are an awesome design and always have been they made the class somewhat skilled. Much through choice and how we used them, Judgement's were the same as we relied on the Seal we had to place the debuff.

    I know I'm rambling a bit, but i guess what I'm trying to say is all these people looking to fix Ret i dont think it will ever happen, you have people like ronark and other's making awesome tree's and coming up with really intuitive ways to bring Ret up but not make it a faceroll spec, but none are really listened to. Blizz have their idea for Ret and noone knows what it is, we just have to sit on the rollercoaster and hope at some point it reach's the point where blizz want us to be.

  8. #8
    Deleted

    Re: How to fix Retri

    Didn't actually read what was inside of the link you put up, but I can't see how DW would fix paladins. At all.

    Failure.

  9. #9
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: How to fix Retri

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoialord
    So this is what we get when we have a SoV nerf as big as this last one...

    People wanting pally's to DW.. roll a DK spec frost and pick up ToT job done, make your own little background like one of mine (fallen paladin, i.e got killed ).

    I agree with the person who said we don't need it. Even if the SoV change goe's live Ret's will deal with it same as we always have. We ain't really ever been top of the food chain so to speak or the stints we did have were very erm brief lol.

    Some Ret's will whine and QQ, other's will bring sensible math and worked out solution's (that may or may not be listened to in the end). But some of us will still be Ret.. As far as I'm concerned they can make it the most crappy spec you can have and It would still feel right for me. I quested and grouped before fanatiscism had Threat Reduction, i went along with all the "balancing" we had back then, i even went with the different seals for the pally factions.

    But getting to the point I will still be Ret as my main spec come 3.2, I'll still be Ret when 3.3 hit's and when the new expansion comes i will still be ret then no matter what blizz do to the spec. I have very little faith in Blizz getting it right, it's taken them 4 years of "tweaking" and they still cant reach a point where they want Ret's to be.

    The SoV change is for atleast a while going to have the effect of "killing" Ret, but what it wont do is kill the Ret's that seen all this before.. it wont kill the one's who love the spec not just because its "omfwtfbbq" burst we love it because imo it's the "True" paladin, large Two hander running around smashing anything undead to pieces.

    Aslong as WoW has PvP/Arena it will never have a balanced "Retribution" Paladin in there. Ret's are built solely around our burst and some of the utility we used to bring (which we dont anymore). People keep saying about our Utility, apart from blessings we have very little. Hands are great but people have to remember very situational, Seals are an awesome design and always have been they made the class somewhat skilled. Much through choice and how we used them, Judgement's were the same as we relied on the Seal we had to place the debuff.

    I know I'm rambling a bit, but i guess what I'm trying to say is all these people looking to fix Ret i dont think it will ever happen, you have people like ronark and other's making awesome tree's and coming up with really intuitive ways to bring Ret up but not make it a faceroll spec, but none are really listened to. Blizz have their idea for Ret and noone knows what it is, we just have to sit on the rollercoaster and hope at some point it reach's the point where blizz want us to be.
    I still like my ideas in Wartools- Although they would have to adjust for the "new" SoV in some ways.

  10. #10

    Re: How to fix Retri

    yes, put repentance so that prot spced holy paladins can have it too. brilliant.
    Pondering returning.
    Nikoll - Retribution Paladin

  11. #11

    Re: How to fix Retri

    Quote Originally Posted by Zpot!
    Posted it on the official Forum, and it thought it would post it here too,

    Hello Guys....

    I just saw the changed that was made to SoV/SoCor....

    And then it hit me... "i can come up with a way to fix Retri without making them too overpowered in PvE or PvP"...

    Take a look..

    http://war-tools.com/t64138.html


    I know you are all gonna say.. "Dual-wield, where does that fit the lore?"... hmm.. who cares??.. Where does it fit the lore that shaman is wielding 2 Weapons..... >.>

    Gimme some Feedback,

    EDIT: Please don't put "[ATTENTION]" in titles of idea-based threads as they aren't requiring attention of everyone in the same way as a service announcement would. ~Chronalis
    You know, idea is great, but it's not the solution of the PvP problem

  12. #12

    Re: How to fix Retri

    Quote Originally Posted by Zpot!
    "i can come up with a way to fix Retri
    since when does ret need a fix?

  13. #13

    Re: How to fix Retri

    since the expac and after the next patch they will be needing fixes !!

  14. #14
    Zoialord
    Guest

    Re: How to fix Retri

    Ronark i still love your setup for Ret in wartools it was really interesting. I like the whole change to the combat system and the depth it added to the playstyle. I just guess when it come's to Ret I just sit back and wait to see what happens.

    We all know blizz by now we have seen what happens more than enough. People spouting off at GC is imo totally uncalled for. People seem to forget the very little actual dev contact we had in TBC. GC has tryed to be open about some thing's but come on anyone with half a brain aint going to say about a major nerf to Rets when they know it will start all the little newbie ret's going "omg Blizz sux0r at balance and broked my class" or the personal insults. In honesty i quite like GC yeah he aint upfront (he does try to be though at times) but then given some Ret pally's responses im not at all surprised lol.

    Let's just ride the storm out and see where we go, nothing is a closed book and after all the changes the Ret spec and pally's in general have had in Wrath, i cant see them just sticking us at the bottom.

  15. #15

    Re: How to fix Retri

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotshocklate
    since when does ret need a fix?
    Since the latest PTR.

    Oh, and since the beginning of time.

  16. #16

    Re: How to fix Retri

    you had your time retardin, now go back to the land of the line where you belong, mouahahaha
    WoW free since 8/10/09
    well i got stuck homesick with nothing to do pretty much and... for the sixth time, i started playing again.

  17. #17

    Re: How to fix Retri

    The truth is, we r becoming more and more like Arms warriors who cant kill healers or people being healed because we lack a healing reduction ability. From the look of things, Frost mages and shadow priests are the lucky winners with their -20% healing coming soon in 3.2 (last time i checked that is). I honestly don't see why those 2 classes/spec needed a healing reduction but they still got it.

    True, Ret paladins can heal, defensive-dispell, provide immunity to phys damage, aborb damage... and have immunity for 12 sec (if not removed) but all of this takes a large amount of mana especially if u are being mana burned, that is why i believe we should have a form a healing reduction.

    Face it, the burst is going away and w/o the possibility to strike back to back to back with big hits, we just cant beat the healing. The healing reduction should not be as strong as MS, probably a stacking debuff that would reduce healing received by up to 20%. So for example, SoV could reduce healing on the target by 4% for each stack, once u reach 5 stacks the target takes 20% less healing.

    But again that is only what i think. Go ahead start QQing about it.


  18. #18

    Re: How to fix Retri

    Quote Originally Posted by Zpot!
    I know you are all gonna say.. "Dual-wield, where does that fit the lore?"... hmm.. who cares??.. Where does it fit the lore that shaman is wielding 2 Weapons..... >.>
    Heard of that green Orc dude called Thrall?

  19. #19
    Zoialord
    Guest

    Re: How to fix Retri

    lol at the comment a few above this one..
    Quote Originally Posted by peknoman
    you had your time retardin, now go back to the land of the line where you belong, mouahahaha
    People will still complain when they get stomped by a Ret, Rogues still QQ about Ret's having high survival, heals and good burst.

    Also people tend to forget we have got excorcism back on any target as an instant with AoW up. I'm not saying thats a cure to all this SoV crap it's far from it. What i am saying is all these people thinking Ret's will now be a free HK even after 3.2 got a shock coming, good rets even in TBC when we did suck could still "wtfpwn" people if we played well. 3.2 wont change the good players roflstomping people what it will stop is us doing it in a frontload.

    Anyone who thinks the numbers for SoV are going to stay as is, or even SoC for that matter are truely in a fantasy land, Blizz are watching the numbers, nothing in this game is finished. I have my doubts on Ret being "fixed" ever properly, but i have no doubt in my mind that the seals will be changed to make up for some of the loss and maybe in the future we will get more tool's to play with.

    Blizz are trying to get Ret burst under control. Now anyone who has played Ret for a while will know this isnt easy. Even a Ret cant control his burst at certain time's.

    Let blizz do what they think is in the best interests of the game. Let us prove to them when it goe's live that some of the ideas/changes were over done. I dont want the old SoV back, i like the idea of a ramp up time with the new bonus damage. What i dont like is the length of the ramp up, 15 secs is way to long. We either need a move we currently have to be able to shorten the time but make us select whether it is an appropriate option. Or we need SoV to change on something to make it stack faster.

    What we dont need at the mo is what a lot of people are doing, throwing around baseless comments and flame baiting people. What we do need is a collective approach, we need for the "Real" Ret paladin's to stand up and prove the fact's, not the FoTM PvP Ret reroll's or the people who rerolled Ret to go Raid in LK, I'm talking the one's of us who were around when Ret truely was in the gutter, but by a miracle made it work.

    Blizz dont want to hear the loudmouths spouting off with threats and crap, saying GC sucks and all the rest of it. What they want to hear and they want us to prove is that the changes they made are wrong (numbers wise). The ramp up is long but overall the damage seem's to be around the same at the end (single non moving target, i know not a lot ingame but I'm trying to point it out). What we need to do is prove that on fights that aren't tank and spanks like patch we actually do lose, by a considerable amount. 100 DPS loss is neither here nor there, Yes it's a loss, is it a considerable one? not really it can be blamed on anything a missed CD , a clash, bad play whatever.

    We need something that prove's that while were not against the change in theory (which i dont think a lot are) we are against having to spend so much time on target for us to become effective in the role we play.

  20. #20

    Re: How to fix Retri

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoialord
    We need something that prove's that while were not against the change in theory (which i dont think a lot are) we are against having to spend so much time on target for us to become effective in the role we play.
    This guy pretty much has it right, and as GC has stated they are willing to mess with SoV stacking in order to fine tune ret dps. I've always wondered what classes that use 2handers are so fascinated about DW for. Haven't DKs proven that DW needs a lot of tree support to be viable dps? Moreover of the 2 classes that don't really have a 2h option (counting enh here because our 2hand dps is absolutely terrible) its pretty clear that DW doesn't really bring a lot to the table for PvP. Yes rogues are not underpowered, but if you really watch a rogue in PvP you realize their damage isn't bursty, and isn't really very high at all, they simply make up for a lack of damage with a high degree of control. Most Enh shamans, meanwhile, wish there was some support for 2h weapons in PvP. I'm a little jaded on that subject, it worked well in vanilla (sort of), but PvP has come a long way since then, there is no way that a couple talents in the Enh tree could make 2handers a viable option.

    TL;DR DW is not really an ability that can be balanced against using a 2hander in a single tree, and has many flaws that are easily overlooked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I pity people who have gotten so insensate to disrespect and abuse from repetition that they have elevated being jaded to a virtue.

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