T9 Enh Set Bonuses - Are They Kidding?

[Zarios]

Yeah our 2pc/4pc look like shit. I almost dont want to raid for t9 lol..

[Deleted]

While being true that they aren't as bad as people think they are it's still true they aren't on par with current ones.

Ah interesting and WHERE IS YOUR MATHS TO PROVE IT.

PLEASE don't spout "it looks bad" crap without actual testing. I freely agree that upfront it doesn't SOUND good however if you don't actually test it then you are talking rubbish.

Its the same as someone saying OOH Frozen power sounds good as a talent I'll take that. You get nowhere fast in this game going by what the tooltip sounds like. You need to test it and do proper theorycrafting.

[arimis]

I wonder how a flame/earth shock rotation works out with flame shock glyph... I wouldn't mind have a some kind of dot ability and if the 25% increases the tick as well, it might not be too bad.

[Deleted]

As with any new patch it is definitely worth testing out that theory. My guess however is that the overall situation hasn't changed. Flame Shock still doesn't benefit from Stormstrike debuff and for Enhancement the periodic damage still can't crit. So what has changed that would make Flame Shock come back?

A 25% boost to ES and a 25% boost to FS doesn't change the relative merits of either. The Flame Shock Glyph was never useful as Lava Burst is not part of the Enhancement arsenal except in special circumstances.

[aikouka]

I got kinda bored and did some kind of weak napkin math using an Ignis fight as my example. The only thing I can't remember off the top of my head is if Flame Jets procs a Lightning Shield that hits Ignis (I calculated for both based on being hit by 8 flame jets).

I just pulled an old WoL from Ignis to do the calculations:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/v...?s=6912&e=7191

The basic info used was...

39 LBs
61 windfuries
36 earth shocks
31 stormstrikes
32 lava lashes
38 (possibly 30 from SS) lightning shield procs

Now, the initial problem with calculating these differences is that two of them are simply adding to the chance to proc, which means we can only guess that in the same situation, we would truly see the amount lowered by x% (which in reality, it could swing either way in the wonderful world of RNG).

2 Piece Bonuses:

57 (45 if FJ procs them) LS procs in lieu of +20% SS and +20% lava lash damage

Getting the new damage amount:

57 = 74195 + 37097.5 = 111292.5
45 = 58575 + 29287.5 = 87862.5

Stormstrike = 81224
Lava Lash = 68975

Calculate the new damage without the 20% buff and display the delta:
81225 / 1.2 = 67687.5 ~ 13537.5
68975 / 1.2 = 57479.2 ~ 11495.8

combined loss = 25033.3

Check the gains from Static Shock procs versus the losses from SS+LL:
37097.5 - 25033.3 = 12064.2 ... 48.19% boost
29287.5 - 25033.3 = 4254.2 ... 16.99% boost

4 piece bonuses:

The problem with this one is that we have to assume that each Maelstrom Weapon proc isn't wasted and by wasted, I mean that it doesn't simply refresh the current stack which is already at 5 (could occur if you're waiting on the GCD or mess up your rotation). If we assume this, we show that we would get 20% less Lighting Bolts.

207137 * .8 = 165709.6 ... loss of 41427.4

earth shock = 132610 * 1.25 = 165762.5 ... gain of 33152.5

33152.5 - 41427.4 = -8274.9 ... 19.97% loss



Considering that the gains and losses between the two are marginally different (+/- 4k), you should also consider the fact that the differences between the two sets is rather large .

Based on a wowhead item comparison, you gain:

135 Agi
87 Int
121 Sta
285 Armor
21 AP
173 Crit
72 Hit

but you lose...

15 Expertise
124 Haste

Comparison Link: http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=4834...05:46208:46212

Note: If there are any mistakes in the math or some assumptions, please let me know.

[Heilt]

2 Piece Bonuses:

57 (45 if FJ procs them) LS procs in lieu of +20% SS and +20% lava lash damage

Getting the new damage amount:

57 = 74195 + 37097.5 = 111292.5
45 = 58575 + 29287.5 = 87862.5

Stormstrike = 81224
Lava Lash = 68975

Calculate the new damage without the 20% buff and display the delta:
81225 / 1.2 = 67687.5 ~ 13537.5
68975 / 1.2 = 57479.2 ~ 11495.8

combined loss = 25033.3

Check the gains from Static Shock procs versus the losses from SS+LL:
37097.5 - 25033.3 = 12064.2 ... 48.19% boost
29287.5 - 25033.3 = 4254.2 ... 16.99% boost

I'm not too great with math, but I am confused on the part where it says 57 (45 if FJ procs them). Does this mean 45 LS went off due to Flame jets and that 12 were procs due to SS?

[aikouka]

I'm not too great with math, but I am confused on the part where it says 57 (45 if FJ procs them). Does this mean 45 LS went off due to Flame jets and that 12 were procs due to SS?

Ah I'm sorry... what I mean there is that I am not sure if Flame Jets causes a Lightning Shield orb to proc on Ignis. If it does, then there were truly only 30 Lightning Shield procs via Static Shock as I was hit by 8 Flame Jets throughout the encounter. So if we take it that adding 3% chance to proc a Lightning Shield orb onto Static Shock's current 6% will give 150% more (yet again, this won't necessarily happen... it's fuzzy math).

So, in other words,

If Flame Jets doesn't skew the numbers:

38 Static Shock procs * 1.5 = 57 Static Shock procs.

If Flame Jets does skew the numbers:

30 Static Shock procs * 1.5 = 45 Static Shock procs.

That's where it comes from .

[Heilt]

Ah I'm sorry... what I mean there is that I am not sure if Flame Jets causes a Lightning Shield orb to proc on Ignis. If it does, then there were truly only 30 Lightning Shield procs via Static Shock as I was hit by 8 Flame Jets throughout the encounter. So if we take it that adding 3% chance to proc a Lightning Shield orb onto Static Shock's current 6% will give 150% more (yet again, this won't necessarily happen... it's fuzzy math).

So, in other words,

If Flame Jets doesn't skew the numbers:

38 Static Shock procs * 1.5 = 57 Static Shock procs.

If Flame Jets does skew the numbers:

30 Static Shock procs * 1.5 = 45 Static Shock procs.

That's where it comes from .

That clears that up.

Thanks

[Deleted]

4 piece bonuses:

The problem with this one is that we have to assume that each Maelstrom Weapon proc isn't wasted and by wasted, I mean that it doesn't simply refresh the current stack which is already at 5 (could occur if you're waiting on the GCD or mess up your rotation). If we assume this, we show that we would get 20% less Lighting Bolts.

Not sure on your assumption there, I know what you mean by wasted by being at 5 and waiting on the GCD. But mess up your rotation?? Not sure what you mean by that.

[cubby]

He did say it was the priority NOT a rotation so he got that bit right.

However this thread fails as ppl haven't actually bothered to do any testing. Both EnhSim & Rawr.Enhance are updated for the T9 bonuses so try it out before crying PLEASE. A lot will depend on how the balance in gear goes for BiS. Initial tests (not really run for long enough or with enough firm data to be sure) shows that its a decent enough bonus. A lot more testing and understanding is required to be sure however.

As always, very good point.

[aikouka]

Not sure on your assumption there, I know what you mean by wasted by being at 5 and waiting on the GCD. But mess up your rotation?? Not sure what you mean by that.

Oh, just meant that if you miss the fact that you stacked MW to 5 and do something else... which I guess would mean you're waiting on the GCD still technically :P.

The point I tried to make with that segment of text is that trying to compare the 2-piece and 4-piece bonuses is not an easy task because of what they are. Well, the 2-piece is a little easier than the 4-piece given the nature of one being a stackable buff and the other being a damage on proc.