Paladin Prot (Started to tank)

[Tyneside]

Ok fine i will stop giving advice but i suggest you do the same, as with your attitude that everyone must comply to a specific formula and math to be any good at anything tbh fails a lot more than my tanking ever will.

I survive just fine, i hold threat just fine. I actually get told I'm boring to heal as i don't take that much damage and I'm very predictable when i do take damage. I guess though that doesn't make a good tank.

Also posting what you did and calling someone an idiot is actually quite ironic. You Yourself said the job of a tank is

Tanking is 2 primary things:

1) Hold aggro
2) Survive 1.

I do both those, I'm def capped 26.6k HP around 25% dodge and have around 92.7% (with HS up ofc) total avoidance (Block cap is 102.4%), i know the oh so hard 6969 rotation and can basically do it in my sleep (oh btw thats the optimum threat building rotation as posted on EJ). So by what your saying that makes me a bad tank because i don't go for "Omg i need 35k HP unbuffed". The person was on about Tanking in general not upper tier raiding as if you even bothered to look and read he is still gearing up. Which is heroics and maybe Naxx. So before you get on your soapbox make sure you actually look at what the person was asking and what i was replying to.

The build i use is 5/60/6. it's not very unique at all but it's how i enjoy tanking.

I'm sorry to anyone if you feel my opinion on tanking means very little. But imo tanking is a very personal thing and you should do it the way it feels right to you. If it doesn't quite match the math's or theory crafters it's not really an issue as long as you do your best and enjoy the "GAME".

Oh and btw can you show me the posts that say Expertise and Hit are 100% "inferior" for Paladin tanks? They arn't high on the priorty list but they are there. The only thing imo a pally would never gem for is Parry.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is a classic example of "snowflake rage," a very common defense mechanism the "unique and beautiful snowflake" uses to stubbornly cling to their point. We'll see if we can't dissect this one so the students can see.

First it starts with the basic, "I know you are but what am I." This normally manifests as calling out the poster by suggesting that they, too, are unqualified to give advice. It also tends to involve either direct accusations or insinuations of elitism.

We then move on to the anecdotes. Often these are stories about how the poster is told repeatedly by all manner of pugs just how damn good they are. This is, of course, followed by some kind of round up about how they do their job "just fine" and their advice is somehow valid because even though it falls flat in the face of an actual challenge, it's seen them through questing, so must be worth acknowledging.

Of course the final stage is the appeal toward "gameness." It's all fun and games and therefore the poster's shortcomings are rarely, if ever, significant to anyone.


Now, of course, the entire rant fails to realize that the best advice will indicate the best method. The best method does exist, btw. It is what gives the highest chance of success across the highest number of situations. That is why cookie cutter builds exist. If you were running around with deep Uld achievements or an Algalon kill then your advice would be a bit more believable. But seeing as you haven't managed to even make it through all of the heroics yet, I'd have to say you're better off ASKING for advice than trying to give it.

[Zoialord]

And here we have the elitist Raiders who are yet to clear Vanilla or TBC content before they were level 80. GG guys if i choose not to raid it's because i have a daughter and cannot put the time i would need to raid. I'm sorry that my choice not to raid and put my real life and daughter first is such a concern that it makes my opinions on something i enjoy doing wrong.

Anyways you keep giving advice and trying to belittle those who don't actually always agree with you.

To the OP, good luck with your tanking, i hope you all the best in the future. But as you can see some raiders get so full of themselves.

P.s where in the original post from the OP does it mention high end raiding?

To Tyneside, you disect my post, yet you still cannot provide any backup to your theory that Expertise and Hit are 100% inferior with actual links or math. You come back with the oh so classic "I'm an Elitist because i have this many Wrath achievement's", i would also like to point out this from the general forums and the actual forum rule's

1. Respect your fellow community member
Keep in mind that even though you are sitting behind your computer, you are still having a conversation with a human being.

We do not want to see: Racism, hatred, violent language, threats, real-life threats, insults, extreme vulgar language, flaming, otherwise inappropriate or hurtful language, harassment.

Do not flame anyone. Do not provoke a flame.

Do not call people "dumb fuck", "idiot", "retard",...

Do not correct other people's posts when they make a grammatical or spelling mistake. Not everyone's native language is English. If yours is you should be glad everyone else is doing an effort. Respect that.

In life you will find many people who's opinions or outlooks do not match your's this is what brings about the freedom to do and think how we like and to hold our own values. But doing this without making others try to feel inferior or judging someone on there own achievements is a hard task, one some people just cannot handle.

Oh and Btw there are tanks in full Ulduar Gear with a lot weirder spec than mine. Ulduar and Raids in general in Wrath have been opened to "EVERYBODY" they are made easy for that purpose.

Oh and to back up my theory of Expertise and Hit mattering a lot more in 3.2

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...464552#p464552

[Tyneside]

From your link:

Theck wrote:Nothing surprising here, STR and BV neck and neck at the top, with hit and expertise trailing a bit. Both hit and expertise get better as you stack more STR, as expected. For reference, an Ulduar geared tank should have between 1300 and 1400 "Character Sheet STR."

Again, nothing surprising. We see the expected drop-off at the melee hit cap. It's clear from the graph that it's really not worth stacking hit past the melee cap, even Haste is a better threat stat at that point.

Again, we see the sharp drop off at the dodge soft cap. Interesting, expertise holds up pretty well even past this point - it's on par with Crit and Agility until we hit the parry hard cap.



READ WHAT YOU LINK, PEOPLE!

You just linked an article that shows that Str and BV are better than Hit/Exp. That Hit's already lower value falls roughly 80% past the hit cap, and that expertise falls 50% past the dodge soft-cap. Even at their most valuable, though, there is only 1 time when ANY stat provides more threat than BV. This is Hit rating when you're under hit cap but over 3000 BV. Once you hit the hit cap again, though, Str takes over... again.

I'm not being elitist because you don't raid. I'm being elitist because you obviously don't know what you're talking about. If you did you wouldn't be linking information that disproves the point you're trying to make.

P.S. My main before WotLK was "Netweaver" an undead lock on the same server who completed everything up to Illidan before I retired him in June to pursue RL. I'd have more achievements, but alas, I had already gone through 90% of the content before achievements even came out. Good effort, though.

[Zoialord]

Str and BV are Better yes, i did not state once that they were not?

I stated about Expertise and Hit mattering to us which You said were 100% (i.e totally useless) Which are actually both on there as being slightly inferior to Str and BV but not useless or 100% inferior Threat stats?

Before you go trying to belittle me again i suggest you stop making out things are 100% inferior when even by the maths they are not 100% inferior at all.

[Deaths]

Ok fine i will stop giving advice but i suggest you do the same, as with your attitude that everyone must comply to a specific formula and math to be any good at anything tbh fails a lot more than my tanking ever will.

I survive just fine, i hold threat just fine. I actually get told I'm boring to heal as i don't take that much damage and I'm very predictable when i do take damage. I guess though that doesn't make a good tank.

Also posting what you did and calling someone an idiot is actually quite ironic. You Yourself said the job of a tank is

Tanking is 2 primary things:

1) Hold aggro
2) Survive 1.

I do both those, I'm def capped 26.6k HP around 25% dodge and have around 92.7% (with HS up ofc) total avoidance (Block cap is 102.4%), i know the oh so hard 6969 rotation and can basically do it in my sleep (oh btw thats the optimum threat building rotation as posted on EJ). So by what your saying that makes me a bad tank because i don't go for "Omg i need 35k HP unbuffed". The person was on about Tanking in general not upper tier raiding as if you even bothered to look and read he is still gearing up. Which is heroics and maybe Naxx. So before you get on your soapbox make sure you actually look at what the person was asking and what i was replying to.

The build i use is 5/60/6. it's not very unique at all but it's how i enjoy tanking.

I'm sorry to anyone if you feel my opinion on tanking means very little. But imo tanking is a very personal thing and you should do it the way it feels right to you. If it doesn't quite match the math's or theory crafters it's not really an issue as long as you do your best and enjoy the "GAME".

Oh and btw can you show me the posts that say Expertise and Hit are 100% "inferior" for Paladin tanks? They arn't high on the priorty list but they are there. The only thing imo a pally would never gem for is Parry.

fail is just... fail

[Tyneside]

tactic/spec/gear that is 100% proven to be inferior,

This does not indicate that they are proven to be 100% inferior. This indicates that they are 100% proven to be inferior. Re-read it a few times, see if you can't tell the difference.

(Incidentally, past the soft cap the values plummet so low that Str/BV is actually worth about 600% more than Hit/Exp. But now we're just splitting hairs.)

[Offhand]

And here we have the elitist Raiders who are yet to clear Vanilla or TBC content before they were level 80. GG guys if i choose not to raid it's because i have a daughter and cannot put the time i would need to raid. I'm sorry that my choice not to raid and put my real life and daughter first is such a concern that it makes my opinions on something i enjoy doing wrong.

Anyways you keep giving advice and trying to belittle those who don't actually always agree with you.

So why do you give advice if this video game is too hard for you? "I haz a life, nubs" isn't an excuse to be bad at a video game.

As you've already stated, you're gemming expertise instead of strength, which is provably inferior.