Theory on Seal of Vengeance mechanics

[Lorad]

So it says that SoV will only leave a dot on auto attacks and hammer of the righteous. We all know this and we are all pissed about it(when I say we I mean us paladins). When it comes down to it as a prot pally it really doesnt have any effect on us at all because any good tank uses it. Now when it comes to retribution I think it is greatly unfair. With prot paladins you want to stack the buff quickly and within 6 or 7 seconds you have the full 5 stacks on a single target, being a combination of auto attack and hammer. Now I was wondering why can't Retribution have that? I figure if we gave that stacking ability to are newly changed Crusader Strike things would be good for all because as of right now its going to take around 15 seconds to get those stacks up which is no good for us on XT's heart, Aryuia's kittens, Thorim's adds in the arena, adds in the Mimiron fight, adds on Freya's fight(excluding the triplets and the big guy) and the adds in Phase 1 and 2 of Yogg. Now if Crusader Strike had the ability to stack the dot then it would reduce that time by 6 or 7 seconds which can be a long time in many cases when it comes to adds.
Now many of you will say that they shouldn't change it because it eliminates a paladins burst damage. However, just by removing seal of blood and creating it so you had to get those stacks up before doing the same damage as seal of blood you have done so. And others might argue that it takes away from the fact that you have to have some sort of skill to play a paladin, but I see no difference in that case because you still have all the factors their such as whether to use excorsim or FoL for an instant cast, the new order of rotation with the change to Crusader Strike, and whether or not to use SoC for the short stuff like trash.
Now my thoughts, in my opinion, seem sort of jumbled which happens when you lack sleep. If anyone has anything to add other then the normal childish "QQ" posts I'd be happy to hear them.

[Whoopzz]

IMHO they shouldn't be balancing one seal to make the other more appealing for a specific application.

Blizz did this in 3.0 also, RIP shockadin spec.

[Ronark]

IMHO they shouldn't be balancing one seal to make the other more appealing for a specific application.

Blizz did this in 3.0 also, RIP shockadin spec.

Solution: Buff/Synergize something with SoC.

[Whoopzz]

Solution: Buff/Synergize something with SoC.

/nod

[Lorad]

Solution: Buff/Synergize something with SoC.

Could be many a patch before that happens

[arel00]

In any case, now SoV does a % weapon damage even at 1 stack of the dot, and the % increases with every stack. If you're still in deep shit, use Command. More than that, there's nothing to do.

[Inorite]

In any case, now SoV does a % weapon damage even at 1 stack of the dot, and the % increases with every stack. If you're still in deep shit, use Command. More than that, there's nothing to do.

OMFG SOMEONE READS UP! props to Arel.

god i hate all these QQ posts... it will do THE SAME EFFING DAMAGE AS SoB and MORE when it stacks to 5. honestly... just don't talk unless you know what you are talking about yeah?? it does 33% weapon damage as holy damage... SoB did about the same... but NOW it's a freaking DOT effect that will be added + when it gets to 5 it makes you crit for double... what's the damn problem? oh wow it will take (15???) seconds... btw they will adjust the stacking if it doesn't work the way it should. THE BLUE POSTS SAY IT"S A DAMN UPGRADE FOR RET DAMAGE.

/sigh noobs. SLASH SIGH.... honestly you're crying about xt heart? wow...just wow...

[Kawasaki.gdm]

He is talking about PVP, and still sucks ALOT.

15 sec is too much time to start doing real dmg.

[BDF]

OMFG SOMEONE READS UP! props to Arel.

god i hate all these QQ posts... it will do THE SAME EFFING DAMAGE AS SoB and MORE when it stacks to 5. honestly... just don't talk unless you know what you are talking about yeah?? it does 33% weapon damage as holy damage... SoB did about the same... but NOW it's a freaking DOT effect that will be added + when it gets to 5 it makes you crit for double... what's the damn problem? oh wow it will take (15???) seconds... btw they will adjust the stacking if it doesn't work the way it should. THE BLUE POSTS SAY IT"S A DAMN UPGRADE FOR RET DAMAGE.

/sigh noobs. SLASH SIGH.... honestly you're crying about xt heart? wow...just wow...

Still not a whole lot better than blood on single target fights, and worlds worse on any fight that uses AoE or constant target switching.
Think for yourself.

[Merander]

i just thought about somethin crazy and totaly insane how about this the seal dmg will do full 33%dmg for 5 applications of the dot regardless whic paladin have the 5 dots even if its the tank who has the 5 dots up and if the ret builds 5 stacks up it wont count as 33%+33% etc so its now overpowerd we jsut use the prots stacks to do dmg and build our own stack is this just a crazy idea? ???

[Ap0calypse]

i just thought about somethin crazy and totaly insane how about this the seal dmg will do full 33%dmg for 5 applications of the dot regardless whic paladin have the 5 dots even if its the tank who has the 5 dots up and if the ret builds 5 stacks up it wont count as 33%+33% etc so its now overpowerd we jsut use the prots stacks to do dmg and build our own stack is this just a crazy idea? ???

Interesting idea, but sadly not all raids use a Prot Paladin :-\

[TheMediator]

I think a viable middle ground between requiring build-up and allowing target switching is this - every time you cast a Judgement on a target effected by Holy Vengeance, you gain the "Seeking Vengeance" buff, which causes your attacks to deal an additional 33% weapon damage as holy damage for 2 seconds times the number of Holy Vengeance stacks on them. This will allow you to judge your target before a switch to take the buff with you. In PvE you should be able to keep the buff rolling a lot of the time, and in PvP since you have a reduced cooldown on Judgement, you should be able to have a higher uptime on the Seeking Vengeance buff then you would without it.

[Lorad]

OMFG SOMEONE READS UP! props to Arel.

god i hate all these QQ posts... it will do THE SAME EFFING DAMAGE AS SoB and MORE when it stacks to 5. honestly... just don't talk unless you know what you are talking about yeah?? it does 33% weapon damage as holy damage... SoB did about the same... but NOW it's a freaking DOT effect that will be added + when it gets to 5 it makes you crit for double... what's the damn problem? oh wow it will take (15???) seconds... btw they will adjust the stacking if it doesn't work the way it should. THE BLUE POSTS SAY IT"S A DAMN UPGRADE FOR RET DAMAGE.

/sigh noobs. SLASH SIGH.... honestly you're crying about xt heart? wow...just wow...

I dont know if you've been paying attention, but if the fact that it seems like a lot more damage is being done this new way then why would people still have concerns about it? And have blue posts been right all the time?

[Krekko]

Could be many a patch before that happens

Despite it being as simple as a new Glyph.

Blizzard wants to make us use the same things, in the same manner for both PvE and PvP, and it is stupid.

[Luthius]

Solution: Buff/Synergize something with SoC.

Someone on PTR Forums suggested that Judgement of Command should daze the target for X Seconds. Not a so bad idea in my humble opinion.

[Ronark]

Someone on PTR Forums suggested that Judgement of Command should daze the target for X Seconds. Not a so bad idea in my humble opinion.

Daze is too powerful of a mechanic.




Yes, there is a difference between "Dazes the target for 3 seconds" and "Reduces movement speed by 50% for 3 seconds" for all those wondering.

[Lorad]

I think that dazing an opponent would be the only way to combat the OP resto druid because there is nothing us ret paladins can do against them except try to make them go oom which could take far too long

[Munk]

I think that dazing an opponent would be the only way to combat the OP resto druid because there is nothing us ret paladins can do against them except try to make them go oom which could take far too long

You dont OOM a resto druid. Innervates come off cd before you can keep them @ 0 mana. The best you can do is use your repent/HoJ to apply enough preasure that they actually have to CAST heals rather than using hots. Once you force them to cast they should be pretty low already, and you should hopefully have a arcane torrent ready to interrupt and finish the fight.

[Cain]

I am reading posts, in here, from paladins who make ridiculous complaints about not being op anymore and actually having to start being smart in pvp. and then there are suggestions of how you could make paladin op in some other way then before. and all that before the patch even actually hits live servers.

please consider this game is around balance and there is just no good in paladins nuking everything in less time than the hammer of justice is stunning the target. wait for the patch, see how it might work now, consider new strategies and only if you are abosolutely sure there is no way you can compete anymore, only then you should complain again.

[Zhalseran]

Honestly, my only problem with these changes is that it makes Seal of Vengeance the only seal worth using for damage. I always likes SoV for tanking, but a Ret and a Prot pally using the same seal just seems weird to me.