Holy Paladin 3.2 Nerf (not a QQ post)

[Nerotic]

So obviously it's a nerf due to the fact that paladins atm does not go oom (so blizz says), but i was wondering, sure 60% mana return does seems alot, but even when bliz nerfed it down to 30%, is it possible to see it as a bright side knowning that MAYBE 30% is still "too much", meaning when 3.2 comes out, pallies (with clever use of cds), still does not go oom? i'm not saying blizz should nerf it more >.> no way.. but wondering if 30% can still be "beneficial" (obviously not as much as 60%) so with divine illumination + divine favor (the one 100% crit) + Divine Plea, the paladin can still regen alot of mana even when he/she spams HL? (I know i can gain alot of mana if i use all 3 spells listed up there with HL spam (hoping for crit)).

[zcks]

While the 30% mana regin on illumination & divine plea are still nice for getting back spent mana you will go oom pretty fast if you spam holy light, your best bet is to get ether the libram that reduces the mana cost of holy light or one of the 1s from arena that boost the spell power of flash of light. Come 3.2 flash of light spamming is most of what we will be doing except for the times when the tank is taking huge ammounts of burst thats when you might throw on a holy light or 2.

[darthceltic]

u still don't need to spam hl unless your tank is taking lots of damage.

proactive healing tank topped off = flash

healing through some small hits = flash/shock

healing proactive during high damage times (boss ability) HL spam

healing during high damage times HL spam

holy pally is more then 1 spell, in patch 3.2 it will be forced on all of use who can't heal with more then 1 button.

[jst1998]

To anybody who thinks the nerf is not sufficient, I suggest you take a look at raid mana regen stats and you will see that holy pallys depend very much on Illumination, it's about 75% of a pallys mana regen ability. A 50% nerf is very substantial.

[Terlig]

First of all invest in Ulduar MP5 gear. From my observations, after buffs in 3.2 you shoud be able to get around 600-700 MP5 raid buffed, it's pretty nice :]

Use Seal of Wisdom whenever it's possible.

It will work :-)

[Terlig]

To anybody who thinks the nerf is not sufficient, I suggest you take a look at raid mana regen stats and you will see that holy pallys depend very much on Illumination, it's about 75% of a pallys mana regen ability. A 50% nerf is very substantial.

This is from Ulduar 25, 9 bosses, while topping heaing done over 2 resto druids:

Illumination 621310 mana
Divine Plea 428331 mana
Replenishment 371174 mana
Soul of the Dead 108000 mana
Mana Restore 105000 mana
Seal of Wisdom 92279 mana
Revitalize 41167 mana
Judgement of Wisdom 10544 mana
Mana Tide Totem 6600 mana


So, i don't know where you did take 75%, maybe while soloing it is true ...

[Accuser.]

It's only a nerf if your Flash of Light macro is broken, or if you're too stupid to use it.

Stop pretending Holy Light is our only spell or we'll get more mana regen nerfs till you stop spamming it.

We were "the guy who spammed HL on the tank to keep him up", now we're "the main healer for the tank, who may need a small hand with tank healing for hard-modes, but helps the raid healers a LOT now too". Deal with it.

[Terlig]

This is from Ulduar 25, 9 bosses, while topping heaing done over 2 resto druids:

Illumination 621310 mana
Divine Plea 428331 mana
Replenishment 371174 mana
Soul of the Dead 108000 mana
Mana Restore 105000 mana
Seal of Wisdom 92279 mana
Revitalize 41167 mana
Judgement of Wisdom 10544 mana
Mana Tide Totem 6600 mana

+ MP5 from gear and buffs


So, i don't know where you did take 75%, maybe while soloing it is true ...

[FiveDkp]

Its not a 50% nerf but it can't be a 75% nerf thats just TOO much...
Terlig can i get that report. I want to see you beating those two druids in EHPS and not HPS because of course Paladins are going to cream in HPS and not EHPS.
The Illumination nerf is MORE than 50%
60% to 30% doesn't mean its a 50% nerf
This is more than 50% because of these factors
a) Not having enough mana to cast that Holy Light that you could of casted if you had the mana for that Holy Light
b) Everyone moving to mp5

Its true that Paladins will have to move to FoL but with FoL being so horrible in a HL build, Pretty much you can make a FoL build where FoL will still be horrible (Refer to Eloderung's comparation of 3.2 fast heals for how much a FoL will hit for....)

Beacon is a big hit for mana which i don't like. They tell us to use beacon but beacon costs 1.4k Mana..... You can afford to keep this up as a FoL build with a DP now and then but a HL build is out of the question.
I might actually check it, I don't think even a FoL build might be able to sustain beacon but hopefuly it will.

Divine Plea 428331 mana. My big issue with Divine Plea is that you cripple yourself for 15 seconds to regen that much. Regen abilities shouldn't be choice to activate it really. When a class has one regen talent and you nerf it and keep this choice to regen and healing like a cripple or not do it is really flawed.

P.S - I want that Parse of your run, If it isn't worldoflogs or another site (BESIDES WWS because thats currently broken) to check your EHPS.

[Terlig]

Its not a 50% nerf but it can't be a 75% nerf thats just TOO much...
Terlig can i get that report. I want to see you beating those two druids in EHPS and not HPS because of course Paladins are going to cream in HPS and not EHPS.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...m/healingDone/

The Illumination nerf is MORE than 50%
60% to 30% doesn't mean its a 50% nerf

No, it's much less than 50%. In Raid situation it's like around 20% less mana regen overall (with good classes balance evern less). Sure ppls will switch to mp5, but mp5 on Ulduar gear is buffed. It will not cover 100% of demands, but it will not be bad.

[Melonberry]

Its not a 50% nerf but it can't be a 75% nerf thats just TOO much...
Terlig can i get that report. I want to see you beating those two druids in EHPS and not HPS because of course Paladins are going to cream in HPS and not EHPS.
The Illumination nerf is MORE than 50%
60% to 30% doesn't mean its a 50% nerf
This is more than 50% because of these factors
a) Not having enough mana to cast that Holy Light that you could of casted if you had the mana for that Holy Light
b) Everyone moving to mp5

Its true that Paladins will have to move to FoL but with FoL being so horrible in a HL build, Pretty much you can make a FoL build where FoL will still be horrible (Refer to Eloderung's comparation of 3.2 fast heals for how much a FoL will hit for....)

Beacon is a big hit for mana which i don't like. They tell us to use beacon but beacon costs 1.4k Mana..... You can afford to keep this up as a FoL build with a DP now and then but a HL build is out of the question.
I might actually check it, I don't think even a FoL build might be able to sustain beacon but hopefuly it will.

Divine Plea 428331 mana. My big issue with Divine Plea is that you cripple yourself for 15 seconds to regen that much. Regen abilities shouldn't be choice to activate it really. When a class has one regen talent and you nerf it and keep this choice to regen and healing like a cripple or not do it is really flawed.

P.S - I want that Parse of your run, If it isn't worldoflogs or another site (BESIDES WWS because thats currently broken) to check your EHPS.

You're right that it's not a 50% nerf to your regen. It's a 50% nerf to a portion of your regen, which makes it much much lower than 50%.

Also, divine plea is not all that hard to use smartly. Don't pop it when mimiron is shooting a huge beam at the tank. That should help ya out.

[Deleted]

I was solohealing Kologarn yesterday on 10man... Went all fine until I realized I was at 20% mana and kologarn were only at 50% -.-

So yea, pallies clearly go oom

/irony off

Anyways on a more serious note the beacon change is really crappy... How much more boring can beacon be? Seriously it's a nobrainer... I disaprove of that change, just wait for it to be hotfixed into like 50% tranfered overheals. Im giving it a week....

[Terlig]

Anyways on a more serious note the beacon change is really crappy... How much more boring can beacon be? Seriously it's a nobrainer... I disaprove of that change, just wait for it to be hotfixed into like 50% tranfered overheals. Im giving it a week....

I disagree. Which spells in your opinion are not nobrainers? All of them are, and CoH, GW are at the top.

[Deleted]

I disagree. Which spells in your opinion are not nobrainers? All of them are, and CoH, GW are at the top.

What I mean is that the beacon as it is now is a bit fun, you have to choose who to heal so the beacon will work... Your screwed if you picked wrong one. That was the thing that made beacon exciting and required skill to pull it off.
In 3.2 I can just stand there spamming raid without worrying if the beacon will hit or not... Making it far less exciting.
Compare that to druids and priests "funfactor" they have faaaaar more spells to choose from, and beside's the playstyle is completely different so to be really honest I wouldn't go there and compare us with them.

[Terlig]

What I mean is that the beacon as it is now is a bit fun, you have to choose who to heal so the beacon will work... Your screwed if you picked wrong one. That was the thing that made beacon exciting and required skill to pull it off.
In 3.2 I can just stand there spamming raid without worrying if the beacon will hit or not... Making it far less exciting.
Compare that to druids and priests "funfactor" they have faaaaar more spells to choose from, and beside's the playstyle is completely different so to be really honest I wouldn't go there and compare us with them.

Well, again i disagree. Our druids are crying they have no spells like HoP or Divine Sacrifice. They have few more healing spells, but we have much more utility spells.

[Deleted]

Well, again i disagree. Our druids are crying they have no spells like HoP or Divine Sacrifice. They have few more healing spells, but we have much more utility spells.

Err I don't know what you disagree with. I say we're different - you state the difference.... soo why disagree? More like you agree.

But back to beacon, why exacly is it that you like to have 100% tranfer to beacon target?

To me, as I said is just to simplify tankhealing into something that is soo easy I don't really see how you can fail. Beacon were to me a tricky spell to master on all encounter since the tactic about it would work pretty much different through all encounters. Now it doesn't matter if you have a healing plan or a certain strategy, it's going to be the same throughout all encounters there is. Perhaps not so much when there's tankswitching but how many fights is that?

[Veno]

Well, again i disagree. Our druids are crying they have no spells like HoP or Divine Sacrifice. They have few more healing spells, but we have much more utility spells.

Utility? Outside of HoS, we have nothing else. DS is a specced into talent that makes us lose crit. The amount of spells a druid have doesn't matter, all they do is spam rejuv. HoP is very situational. Well at least in 3.2 we get a LoH CD.

[Veno]

Err I don't know what you disagree with. I say we're different - you state the difference.... soo why disagree? More like you agree.

But back to beacon, why exacly is it that you like to have 100% tranfer to beacon target?

To me, as I said is just to simplify tankhealing into something that is soo easy I don't really see how you can fail. Beacon were to me a tricky spell to master on all encounter since the tactic about it would work pretty much different through all encounters. Now it doesn't matter if you have a healing plan or a certain strategy, it's going to be the same throughout all encounters there is. Perhaps not so much when there's tankswitching but how many fights is that?

This game is getting easier and easier, get used to it. The change to BoL is basically what Blizz gave us in exchange to all the nerfs. Now instead of 30% mana return and 5%int, we have a SS HoT which is still useless to me since it doesnt stack and the BoL thing. Now we can Beacon the tank raid heal without any worries that the tank won't get the heal. Oh and we also have to keep up the HoT on the MT, which should be at least something to do. With the new mana nerfs, at least we have to watch our bar now :P

[Deleted]

Utility? Outside of HoS, we have nothing else. DS is a specced into talent that makes us lose crit. The amount of spells a druid have doesn't matter, all they do is spam rejuv. HoP is very situational. Well at least in 3.2 we get a LoH CD.

Some ppl use the hand spells more frequently then others, myself only uses sacrifice and salvation... Apart from those 2 I very rarely use HoP since most dps get instagibbed whenever they pull. But I'll definetly specc into DS at some point... I will probably die through it but what the hell :P

Btw I had a LoH cooldown aswell, Also gogo read the priest faq. I sure hope that LoH is included in that cooldown thingy when you wipe. Cause it's really annoying only having it up on progression fights every other try...

[Terlig]

Utility? Outside of HoS, we have nothing else. DS is a specced into talent that makes us lose crit. The amount of spells a druid have doesn't matter, all they do is spam rejuv. HoP is very situational. Well at least in 3.2 we get a LoH CD.

First of all - crit is not so much valuable in 3.2. Personally i switched to Divine Sacrifice spec long time ago, and i have no problems with that spec, it's awesome (especially with Sacred Shield buff)
- Hand of Salvation
- Hand of Protection (Yogg-Saron tentacles anyone?)
- Hand of Sacrifice (sometimes with HoP)
- Sacred Shield
- Resist Auras combined with Aura Mastery
- Lay on Hands - buffed in 3.2
- Judgements
- Blessings
- And finally BoL itselfs

Don't tell me druid has more ...