Pally tanking without Exorcism

[korthelle]

And no, im sorry, the top paladins know far more than someone who doesnt know fuck all about an actual boss fight and just runs numbers, only a very arrogant "Number cruncher" would think he would know more about it than the paladins in the top guilds ;/. But as i said, we will see in the new instance if people change spec

just because someone is in the public eye, does not mean they're the best, or that they are 100% right. even when several dozen other good people copy that initially wrong idea, that doesnt change the wrong.

Look at yourself for example. you go to look at THEIR specs to use, just assuming because they use it its good, and then you'll say its the best simply because it works.

their way works... that does not mean, in any regard, that it's the best.

[Needonboots]

just because someone is in the public eye, does not mean they're the best, or that they are 100% right. even when several dozen other good people copy that initially wrong idea, that doesnt change the wrong.

Well the math is there showing that 53/18 is the best threat spec on Crusade mobs. Show me numbers that proves that wrong. Because I can link you straight to the numbers that prove me rght.

Look at yourself for example. you go to look at THEIR specs to use, just assuming because they use it its good, and then you'll say its the best simply because it works.

Look at yourself, making cute little assumptions without any grounding in fact. I run the modelled numbers myself, I do a fair amount of ingame testing and combat log parsing between different specs to establish whether there is a hidden mechanic ingame that might be throwing the numbers off. I keep actual raid logs parsed to review the numbers. I don't need to post numbers because Theck's results, about 90% of the time, mirror mine.

their way works... that does not mean, in any regard, that it's the best.

Again, there is plentiful information out there to prove 53/18 superior. There is no information that contradicts it. Other people also run the numbers, and not a single person has come up with results that say otherwise.

Your argument is "oh you're copying him, don't do that!" while admitting you're just happy to copy the "top" paladins. It's exactly the same thing. Just because they're in the top guilds doesn't mean they have the optimal spec for exactly the same reason you say that the hard numbers that are given as proof don't prove anything.

If you can show me contradictory evidence, ACTUAL evidence, not "oh but look at XYZ", then I will happily concede my point. Until then, I'll continue to point to rocksolid fact of numbers. It's a game, it's based around numbers, and running the numbers through an accurately modelled simulator provides 100% accurate "ideal" results.

[korthelle]

Well the math is there showing that 53/18 is the best threat spec on Crusade mobs. Show me numbers that proves that wrong. Because I can link you straight to the numbers that prove me rght.
Look at yourself, making cute little assumptions without any grounding in fact. I run the modelled numbers myself, I do a fair amount of ingame testing and combat log parsing between different specs to establish whether there is a hidden mechanic ingame that might be throwing the numbers off. I keep actual raid logs parsed to review the numbers. I don't need to post numbers because Theck's results, about 90% of the time, mirror mine.
Again, there is plentiful information out there to prove 53/18 superior. There is no information that contradicts it. Other people also run the numbers, and not a single person has come up with results that say otherwise.

Your argument is "oh you're copying him, don't do that!" while admitting you're just happy to copy the "top" paladins. It's exactly the same thing. Just because they're in the top guilds doesn't mean they have the optimal spec for exactly the same reason you say that the hard numbers that are given as proof don't prove anything.

If you can show me contradictory evidence, ACTUAL evidence, not "oh but look at XYZ", then I will happily concede my point. Until then, I'll continue to point to rocksolid fact of numbers. It's a game, it's based around numbers, and running the numbers through an accurately modelled simulator provides 100% accurate "ideal" results.

i love how you posted 3 paragraphs to say that someone arguing FOR crusade and AGAINST Seals of the Pure was wrong. seeing as i QUOTED the only person in the thread arguing for SotP.... lol, just goes to show you http://xkcd.com/386/

again. i' was the person who LINKED theck's thread to prove crusade was better.

Edited for typos and stuff.

[Needonboots]

It's 3am and I'm tired. And leaving this thread since I'm apparently unable to tell the difference between entirely different usernames and what they're posting!

I <3 xkcd

[draticus]

I just feel the need to point out that while theoretically 1+1=2 how often does that pan out in the real world? I mean when lots of complicated things are going on in the middle of battle isn't it better to trust your instinct or gut feeling about whats more powerful instead of listening to mathematicians who think math and physics are laws or something? 1+1=3 works for me and it works for other people too. I can't believe the arrogance of you number crunchers!

[conaan]

I just feel the need to point out that while theoretically 1+1=2 how often does that pan out in the real world? I mean when lots of complicated things are going on in the middle of battle isn't it better to trust your instinct or gut feeling about whats more powerful instead of listening to mathematicians who think math and physics are laws or something? 1+1=3 works for me and it works for other people too. I can't believe the arrogance of you number crunchers!

refer to my previous post if this statement is not an inside joke

[Tyneside]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=R%C3%BCnner

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Ganis&n=Telloc

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rne&n=Mesthree


Those are the prot pallies from the Top 5 US guilds. All w/ WoWheroes scores over 2400, all running a Crusade spec.

I suggest you check the WoW-heroes and find out which of those pallies you checked actually TANKS for their guild

[beanfinnalblow]

maybe u just suck u are alliance
faction war aside

spec into reckoning is good now with the changes to SoC and it procing from blocks

[Luthius]

I'm not sure if my case would be different, but since 3.2 came live my TPS while tanking is passing 5.6k-6k easily it used to be 4.8k-5.2k spiking before. Same gear though.

I can say based on what I've seen, our threat is awesome this patch.

[Darrkh]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=R%C3%BCnner

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Ganis&n=Telloc

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rne&n=Mesthree


Those are the prot pallies from the Top 5 US guilds. All w/ WoWheroes scores over 2400, all running a Crusade spec.

I suggest you check the WoW-heroes and find out which of those pallies you checked actually TANKS for their guild

Wow, the 2nd and 3rd have really really shit gear for being in the top 5 US guilds

[luthe]

Crusade Spec is all purpose, good threat on any mob, but way superior threat on DUH mobs.

on Non-DUH mobs, SotP is slightly higher threat-per-point then Conv/Crusade.

But with all the new bosses in 3.2 seeming to be Beasts, Humanoids, etc, Crusade Spec will be better threat.

[Darrkh]

Another question is however. Is threat really a paladins issue? Why spec for more threat when u already have an considerable over-abundance of it anyway.

[draticus]

refer to my previous post if this statement is not an inside joke

Inside? I don't think you need to be inside anything.

[Aureon]

SotP is about equal to Crusade on single target, and much worse for aoe.
don't tell me sov + sov dot is making >40% of your damage, because then, you're doing it wrong.
Or you're spec'd reckoning. And personally, i wouldn't tank with Pursuit of Justice. Runspeed is just the best stat you can get.

[korthelle]

Another question is however. Is threat really a paladins issue? Why spec for more threat when u already have an considerable over-abundance of it anyway.

good vs. great.

works vs. works well

if you have 10k gold, and someone offers you a 50g tip for your profession craftable, you could say no thanks, the gold i have is fine, so its free. obviously you are well enough off with something that works. but at the end of the day 10,050 is still > 10,000.


to me, your post is an attempt at "oh, i was wrong... but it doesnt matter, because my way still works". yes, your way works. it was said all along. the whole reason this thread got dragged out was because you **argued** that yours was better. no other reason than you instigating a debate.

[Surfd]

Getting back to the actual topic of the thread, instead of the current mathlete talent derail, no prot paladin should EVER be attempting to work Exorcism into their rotation currently.

Why?

Because it now has a cast time.

Why is this bad?

Because you can not dodge, block, or parry while casting, and pushback from hits will make the cast window even longer.

It should take you about .2 seconds to figure out why this is a bad thing for a tank.

[Glorf]

in my opinion if you are REALLY hurting for threat swap to the judgement glyph instead of HotR.
im having no issues myself and am using glyph of salvation for the extra damage reduction for some fights.
just using a simple 6969 rotation puts me to 7k tps with the new seal of vengeance change

[conaan]

taken from theck's thread, Sotp is only slightly higher tps, crusade having a small edge in the dps field, what pushes it over the edge, just like i have stated before, is conviction, just one point (what you will have if you take vind/poj utility combo) will increase it more than sotp

as for reckoning, reckoning is still not great, most people will stick with Dsac/DG combo, or god help them, divinity

[lave]

uhm actually your (thecks) graph shows, that 4/5 SotP > 3/3crusade+1/5conv since its "tps per talentpoint" (for non undead/demons that is)

so according to that graph sotp specc is indeed superiour to "deep" ret

[Hirako]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=R%C3%BCnner

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Ganis&n=Telloc

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rne&n=Mesthree


Those are the prot pallies from the Top 5 US guilds. All w/ WoWheroes scores over 2400, all running a Crusade spec.

I suggest you check the WoW-heroes and find out which of those pallies you checked actually TANKS for their guild

I checked my gear score on wowhead profile and my score is 2511 and i am not really that well geared (mostly 213 gear) ... so my question is: is 2400 really that high? :P