yet another weapon dillemma now...Edge of Ruin vs Betrayer

[Despized]

So, my recent post of BoH vs Jawbone is case closed, i got myself Edge of Ruin tonight.


now i have a tighter tie.

Edge of Ruin has massive str and arp. which BoH doesnt.....i tested both weapons on mimiron attempts which i know isnt a very good fight to test on, but both came up doin ROUGHLY the same.

my arp with edge is like 43% and with BoH its in the high 30's i forget the number. i have Grim Toll so when i proc if edge is equipped im hitting 100%'sh

ahhhh damn, i got jawbone like a week after nax cameout have had it up untill 2 days ago...and now all these weapons start fallin on me. whats a dk to do :/

[Legimp]

Reroll

[GrieverXIII]

Edge of ruin is pretty insane imo.I think its better than BoH for Blood DK's. Test both of them on a training dummy.

[Despized]

ya i meant to but i literally was summoned out of ToC and into uld tonight and now i gotta get some sleep. i guess ill do real testing tomorrow.

ps, ill reroll when u delete

[Varaxis]

Edge of ruin is pretty insane imo.I think its better than BoH for Blood DK's. Test both of them on a training dummy.

Edge of Ruin is, without a doubt, totally better than Betrayer for you. Especially if you gem all your slots with the new 20 ArP gems. Spec blood and get all the gear available to you with badges and you'll totally be rocking the meters!



WTS 20 ArP gems.

[harky]

Uhm... Betrayer is better for Blood. It's over 100 APE higher and the AWP is 45 higher. Edge of Ruin might be better itemized for its level, but it's 13 levels lower. People need to stop getting attached to their welfares. :-\

[injury]

Edge is 213, BoH is 226 (but we care more about stats unless in a seige vehicle anyways)

Spiffy chart from EJ forums concerning blood spec APE

Stat APE
Attack Power 1
Weapon DPS 9.89
Strength 2.89
Armor Penetration 2.75
Hit Rating (to cap) 2.51
Expertise Rating 2.47
Crit Rating 1.56
Haste Rating 1.5
Agility 1.37
Hit Rating (to spell hit cap) .52
Armor .03

It's tempting to look at something with high STR and say oh it must be the best, however if we study the chart (and if you believe some of the math whizzes that come up with these things) we see weapon DPS is far and away beyond any stat APE wise.

If we plug both weapons in we see based on APE BoH is 2742.121 and EoR is 2636.983 annnd just for comparison the jawbone you asked about the other day would be 2602.084

[Stieger23]

You guys do realize that ToC drops are 219, not 213, right? You're looking at outdated weapon stats.

Dakhdoun is right. The new APE is 2670, not 2637. Although this is still less than BOH, APE values are only approximations. For example, for casters haste is given an "average SPE" value, but in reality the relationship between haste and dps is not linear. There is a generally shallow positive slope punctuated by fairly substantial vertical jumps as haste reaches a point where an additional spell can be squeezed into the rotation. This can be represented linearly, but it's a fairly bad approximation. The same is true of APE vis-a-vis ArP, where the contribution to dps is actually could be better (if also approximately) described by an equation of the form: __x + __x^2 - __ x^3 and not a single linear coefficient.**

This is a long way of saying "Test it". BOH will be better much of the time, but it's not impossible to imagine a situation where Edge of Ruin would be equally good (as your testing indicates) or even superior.

There is no "one right answer".





**(Yes, for you math nerds out there, something like this becomes problematic on the extreme positive tail because this equation will eventually predict a negative return form ArP, which would never happen in real life. However, it will more closely predict the middle values than a single coefficient, and it also would predict the point at which there is no additional benefit from ArP (100% penetration) something that a linear coefficient will never take into account.)

[harky]

You guys do realize that ToC drops are 219, not 213, right? You're looking at outdated weapon stats.

It's a pseudo-219 item, just like most ToC items. Their budget is 219, but their DPS is 213. If Blizz upgrades them then BoH will lose, but for now that isn't the case. APE values are approximate, yes, but those are also BiS APE values. At lower item levels ArP was not as close to strength, while crit/agi are rated higher than they are with BiS values. There are theoretical gear points where Ruin is better right now, but you'd need some horrible luck with other weapons. Especially when you need to be at a gear level beyond hard modes in Ulduar.

If they update its DPS... well then... yeah, BoH will lose. That's where the gap is coming from: 19.4 DPS difference.

[Despized]

after reading steigers post i realised i should have payed more attention in math class.

i feel like neo meeting the architect.

after a ton of time on the boss dummy, edge still on average comes in a few dps higher than BoH. i wonder tho my expertise being undercapped if im falling victim to RNG on these tests

[Dadodil]

Betrayer > Edge of Ruin
End of story

If you've ever been around the BiS thread on EJ you should've known this. They come a bit more closer in Blood then the other specs, but no matter which spec it always wins.

[Naposim1337]

Reroll

[BurningStick]

Reroll

Trying to get your post count a bit up by doing nothing? Ohoh i did the same

[Heleon]

if your stacking ArP than edge of rune is better regardless of DPS difference. If your gemmed for strength, get Betrayer. Although you should be stacking ArP.

[Stieger23]

if your stacking ArP than edge of rune is better regardless of DPS difference. If your gemmed for strength, get Betrayer. Although you should be stacking ArP.

Flame coming in

3...

2...

[Kurrupt]

just curious as to why stack ArP over str ... ?? maybe im drunk

[Deleted]

just curious as to why stack ArP over str ... ?? maybe im drunk

small addendum: stacking arp over str only becomes beneficial if you A) can get over 30% with talents and B) already have 6.2 AP raidbuffed (in combat, including abom might). once you reach those 2 marks, you get a small DPS increase (a bit over the margin) by stacking arp instead of str. this is because 3/4 of your top damage (HS/DS/melee) are physical damage and are reduced by armor. the 4th is death coil.

[Daehauq]

just curious as to why stack ArP over str ... ?? maybe im drunk

There is no need to gem for ArP anymore. With 3.2 Str gained more EP value with the buff to diseases (+15% dmg, thus a better coefficient from Str) and in 3.2.2 ArP will lose EP value with the nerf (more rating needed for 1% ArP).

And @nzall:
that information is misinformed and outdated
A) you can only get 10% ArP from talents. It's actually talent (BG) + passive from gear
B) the "magic AP" number is much higher now (read above about the Str change) and even higher in 3.2.2 (ArP change)

[Solidshock]

I HAVE MARROWSTRIKE AND I LOVE IT! (sorry lol)

simply, i would reccomend BoH cos of its uber damage and good stats, but id say EoR is still very good.. and has a great strengh bonus!

(btw dont vendor Jawbone) keep it if u ever want to tank, its great =P

Hope this helps! Solidshock!