1. #1

    stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    ok well im not a great disc priest but im ok. well the other day im on my ele shaman and here comes a preist with 10 man buffed 32k+ manna. i later ask him advice for my priest. he says there are basically 2 ways of doing it. stack sp for high healing flash heals and stacking int for high crit spells to proc divine agis more. what are ur thoughts.

  2. #2

    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    This is the way I see it for Disco priests.

    When you start out... Gem INT... Gear/ench for SP. Without seeing a WWS/WoL of how your healing... it will be tough to analyze your style and how to best go forward.

    If you are a Disco priest who focus on the tanks.. and tanks alone (running a rotation of PW:S, Penance, FHx5)... and your not running OOM by the fights' end... then I would start switching INT for SP until you feel like your threatening going OOM.

    Now, if you have a primary focus on the tanks, but shield the raid when tanks are topped, spot healing a flash or two, and throwing a PI/BT PoH now and then (a more advanced playstyle), you'll need a larger mana pool to sustain it. Again, if your ending fights at 50% mana... you might want to think about moving some INT gems to SP.

  3. #3

    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    thank you very much for your input. i will put it to good use.

  4. #4

    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by paxilpwns
    ok well im not a great disc priest but im ok. well the other day im on my ele shaman and here comes a preist with 10 man buffed 32k+ manna. i later ask him advice for my priest. he says there are basically 2 ways of doing it. stack sp for high healing flash heals and stacking int for high crit spells to proc divine agis more. what are ur thoughts.
    this is not entirely true. although most of it is.

    Discipline priest is the king of mitigation, when it comes to 'end gaming' by saying; ulduar 25m hard modes and algalon, there are 2 ways to go: stacking int (although mana problems is something a discipline priest in end gaming doesn't have) and stacking spellpower. The spellpower doesn't only give you 'high flash heals'. It also directly increases the amount absorded by your shields.

    When i go to algalon 25m as a discipline priest i usually end up on WoL 1st or 2nd, i heal the MT with a holy paladin and a resto shaman that is CHing the melee's. For algalon i stack spallpower, and usually end up with more Gheal's casted then flash heals (ofc not forgeting the penance every CD the proms and the renew though you didn't ask about a rotation, and tbh, when it does come to algalon its more of knowing when its best to use each heal: sometimes its best to just re-cast flash heals till penance is off CD again, sometimes its not). I pick up divine fury for algalon, most of my "healing" on WoL's comes from divine aegis, shielding and the legendry proc. on some occations i don't use Gheal and continue flash healing, but for example, when phase punch is about to cast i get ready for the gheal's, it is not always the flash heal that i chose. Disscusions about whats better for mana doesn't happen there, since it will end up with a tank dying (especially when you go with 2 main healers to the MT and 1 resto shaman assisting).

    Stacking int as a discipline priest is something that is abit useless in "end gaming" and more effective when you lack gear. If your gear is far from being BiS, you should stack int to the amount you don't feel like you run oom fast. When you have proper gear you can, as a discipline priest go for full spellpower and walk around with a smaller mana pool (i have 29k mana pool fully buffed, and gem mainly for spellpower in order to increase the mitigation i provide).

    Discipline's output by healing is extremely low, but when it comes to mana problems its something that as a discipline you shouldn't have. i play discipline in 3 encounters (rest i play as holy), and i find it exremely easy to manage my mana as discipline. For all of the encounters i prefered geting more spellpower in my gems then int, simpley to increase the amount absorded by my sheild.
    After all we won't use a discipline priest for his healing, but for the mitigation he offers (this refers to end gaming, 25m hard modes etc: this doesn't refer to heroics naxx or easy modes).

    If you don't play in end gaming yet, but on your way, start with combining int and spellpower, then move on to spellpower. The more your shield will absord the more valuable you are.

  5. #5
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
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    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    SP is almost always the same, with little variation between items of the same level, but intellect is not, you can get items with 65 intellect or with 89 and they're still of the same level, when the SP is similar.

    SP will be given by your items, since "endgame" bosses like you want to know drops huge SP amounts on items, just stack int.

  6. #6

    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    @Nikkita: Excellent Post! I normally do not try to minmax my answers to that level, but clearly you have a firm grasp of how to heal properly as Disco priest at true endgame. Kudos for a great, if not overpowering, response!

  7. #7

    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    Like was said before imo if you are full ulduar gear then go for sp, if you are gearing out still and only manage 20-22k mana as disc, then you should consider int.

    Though if you are finishing progression fights with 50% mana, you probably weren't doing enough (or you bring way too many healers).

  8. #8

    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou
    Like was said before imo if you are full ulduar gear then go for sp, if you are gearing out still and only manage 20-22k mana as disc, then you should consider int.

    Though if you are finishing progression fights with 50% mana, you probably weren't doing enough (or you bring way too many healers).
    Just because you have mana at the end of a fight, doesn't mean you've brought too many healers. We run 5 healers for a vast majority of our fights. If we dropped to 4, we could still do many, if we dropped to 3, we'd be stretching.

    My point is, when I play Disco, I'm not wasting GCD. If the tank is topped & shielded... the raid gets shields, FHs, and BT/PI'd PoHs. So it wouldn't matter if I was the only healer left, my mana is going to go down just as fast.

    Now, if you are healing your ass off, using every GCD for something useful, and you end the fight at 50% mana, that doesn't necessarily mean you have too many healers, rather, it means that your personal gearing is skewed more towards regen rather than throughput.

    Its not a good thing to say "if gear is X, then Y" because every healer/raid works differently. Its best to understand how the mechanics work... and adjust your gear based on your performance.

  9. #9

    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    Sorry, perhaps I should have said doing something wrong instead of not doing enough. That would have been more clear. Yeah if you get full ulduar gear and stack regen stats you probably could end at 50% and constantly be on GCD. But then you arent doing 'enough' (per cast). So in that case you should dump your regen stats and get probably sp so you are doing more per GCD and not wasting stats on mana you obviously dont need since you end the fight with 50% mana.

    Also not talking about easy crap (where 'easy' is determined by your raid) or stuff thats on farm since neither of those matter (*cough* new raid instance *cough*).

  10. #10

    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou
    Sorry, perhaps I should have said doing something wrong instead of not doing enough. That would have been more clear. Yeah if you get full ulduar gear and stack regen stats you probably could end at 50% and constantly be on GCD. But then you arent doing 'enough' (per cast). So in that case you should dump your regen stats and get probably sp so you are doing more per GCD and not wasting stats on mana you obviously dont need since you end the fight with 50% mana.
    Doing "enough" by Priest standards is usually keeping par with other healers, while not going OoM. Discipline has a somewhat more sustainable mana pool, but the fact of the matter is, if you go out there and some of your dps dies in a fight, you have a problem. In your suggestions, you've geared to last for the "end" of the fight (less regen, much more SP), but suddenly that "end" is farther away. Is the boss going to start doing less damage to compensate? Not really. Can you cut back on your thoroughput? Sure if you want even more people to die.

    Seeing as the average boss fight is longer than three minutes, healing these days is more about long duration than it is about high numbers. Having numbers to back up your duration works, but not at the risk of biting hard and needing a dead druid's innervate. Sustainability over burst, this isn't 2v2.
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  11. #11

    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    Yeah I agree actually going oom because the fight lasted a bit longer than it should have is very bad. You are however, either ignoring or missing my point... Ending a fight with 50% mana will in absolutely no way have contributed to downing a new fight any more than ending the fight with 20% mana. All that mana might as well not have existed because you never used it. However, having an extra 250 spell power will have contributed to downing a new fight because unlike that 50% mana you never needed or used, the 250 spell power was used on every single thing you cast. And unless your guild is godly, you arent likely to be attempting hard modes without people getting killed in which case bigger heals from healers helps.

  12. #12

    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    Just thought I'd pop this in here since its a tip I didn't see posted. Currently you can actually get two spells out of your Borrowed Time as long as your first is Penance, so thats basically cranking out about 18000 healing minimum (Penance followed by a Gheal with a PWS before casting either). This seems to be a bug that blizzard has yet to catch, since Penance isn't correctly consuming Borrowed Time when you cast it but keeps the 25% haste. Now slightly more on topic.

    I myself have no problem keeping my tank targets up, and I love stacking my regen, it can speed up trash pulls as well, since your tank can look and see one or more of his healers is still good on mana. (For clarification I have healed some hardmodes in 10 man uld, none in 25 as of yet) Regen never hurts, but I agree that too much can be a bad thing. It can be a rough choice sometimes but I'd say go with what you feel more comfortable with.
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  13. #13
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    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    Sesshou, I understand your point, and I agree with to an extent, but you're missing the other benefit. Just like you said, unless your guild is godly, people will be getting killed which means the fight will last longer, which means you would also benefit from more mana.

    First, though, the extremes to which this has been take very much skew this argument. Sure, you can reach those kinds extremes if you have, 10 sockets and one person puts in 10 +20 Intellect gems and the other person puts in 10 +23 SP gems. But I don't think that's very representative. If you are always ending fights with 50% mana, then maybe you can sacrifice some regen, but that doesn't mean that the logical answer is to replace 10 SP gems with 10 Int gems; chances are you'd switch a couple gems and see where you are. It should go the same way if you are often running pretty low on mana or go OOM when a couple people die; you'd probably start by switching just a couple gems.

    The part that I think you're missing is that, yes, 250 SP more will affect every single heal so, unless you run out of mana, 250 SP is clearly better. The important caveat there is "unless you run out of mana". Extra mana isn't a bad thing; it means if a healer goes down and I'm not GCD locked, I can push more throughput to help cover; or if I am, then it means I may have the room to choose less mana efficient spells which, as a Priest, is almost always an option. Similarly, if a few DPS die, the fight will last longer and the extra mana means I can hold on for possibly another 20-30s. And just the extra mana at the end of a fight is wasted, how much does 250 SP REALLY help? How often are your heals not already topping people off or wouldn't be topped off by someone else's heal or a HoT)? A significant portion of that extra Spell Power will be wasted most of the time

    Either way, my point is lots of throughput with no sustainability is just as bad as lots of sustainability and no throughput. It just manifests itself in different ways.

  14. #14

    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    I've started thinking about putting spellpower/int in my yellow sockets over pure int

    I wouldn't socket red with anything but pure SP, ever.
    Socket enough int to meet your mana needs, then SP.

    As to socketing pure gems, generally best to avoid that in one sense. For every place you'd socket a pure int and a pure SP, socket 2 luminous (int/SP) instead and you gain 1 SP do to stat budgeting on gems (the reverse was true with rare gems.
    Bigslick (1/7 Mythic) Lethal-Thunderhorn US
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  15. #15

    Re: stack int or sp as disc endgame healing.

    Ok first, to clarify, I did not say you should not socket int. If you NEED mana then you need it and int is perfectly valid.

    Your excuse about fights going on longer doesnt make sense. If you are always ending with 50% mana that includes sloppy kills where you may take longer than your guilds average or the average time most people use on a first kill. Like I said before, I am not talking about perfect kills or farm bosses. So in that context if you are ending with 50% it means it probably was not smooth, and first kills tend to take longer than subsequent ones... yet you are managing this with 50% mana left. Mana that did not even come into play in your not perfect kill (I mean how often do the guilds who arent so amazing as to have say US or World firsts have perfect kills on most bosses).

    More spellpower (or crit, probably not haste since the soft cap is soooo low for disc) would have actually aided your guild in the kill unlike mana you never use.

    You are essentially saying the same thing as for example a spriest who said how awesome dispersion was for boss X when he never hits the button for it on any of the attempts. Bottom line is something you didn't use did not help you whatsoever in your kill.

    I understand what you want to say, that if you go for so much sp then you may run oom if the fight goes long, which yes is bad. However taking it to the opposite extreme so far as you end first kills and such with 50% mana is retarded and not doing it right either.

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