3.2.2 Paladin Changes.

[Astray]

SoC-Change:
Very nice for trash in pve, but i dont see how uncontrolled damage upon targets in range is good for pvp
But i'm happy with it

Prot Sta -> Str
Little nerf but a good change. i could have imagined worse ways of change.

Prot Threat nerf:
I can deal with that.

[Wonderboy]

To discuss the changes made to Paladins. It more or less says it in my first post. That being said, what was the point in your post?

My point is that there is no discussion really to be made. The SoC changes are interesting but without PTR numbers there's not really a lot you can talk about.

The few paragraphs of whining about how you actually going to have to download omen now to tank is not something we need to discuss. Prot's were slightly overpowered in a variety of ways and all of those have had varying degrees of nerfs. Whats more to be said until we have numbers from the PTR? Nothing....therfore what is the point of this thread?

[dadou131988]

I like the SoComm changes, going to be a lot of help for PvE trash...

As for PvP, does anyone have an idea how it could be used?
Great for cleaving your way in the pile for BGs, but for Arenas, not so much...

[jb226]

As for what you said about "throwing all you have no matter what is not fun," every DPS I've ever talked to disagrees with you completely.

And when I'm on my DPS toon I'd agree with them. Throwing up those big numbers is tons of fun, and the reason to play a DPS class.

That said... every type of toon I can think of (by role, I didn't delve into class/spec at this ungodly hour) has two things to balance aside from knowing and responding to the actual fight mechanics:

Tanks
1. Threat
2. Mitigation

You can't lose aggro, and you can't get hit like a truck.

Healers
1. Throughput
2. Longevity

Doesn't matter how hard your heals hit if your mana can't stay up the whole fight, and doesn't matter how much mana you have left when your tank goes down.

DPS
1. DPS
2. ??

??, undoubtedly in my mind, is "not pulling aggro." Doesn't matter how much DPS you could do if you're dead, doesn't matter how long you survive if you're not doing enough damage to beat timers, preserve healers' mana, etc. You're advocating it should be nothing; that DPS should just get to pewpewpew as hard as they possibly can. I don't find that fair or balanced. DPS is probably the easiest task in the game as it is, there's certainly no call to make it completely brain-dead.

Moreover, since you're a tank I'm sure you know that people rarely pull threat once an encounter settles down unless there's some other game-changing mechanic going on (like the stacking buffs on Hodir, for example). That means that "don't pull aggro" for the DPS virtually simplifies to "attack the right mobs in the right order and give the tank a couple seconds to build threat." Seems reasonable enough to me.

Of course this is simplified and these roles are interconnected. Tanks mitigation matters less the higher a healer's throughput is, for example; healer longevity is de-emphasized by uber-leet DPS. And as you suggest, yes, a tank with ridiculous threat means DPS don't even have to glance at their threat meters. But all in all, those are the things that people have their own control over.

[Lightfist]

Disguising a QQ in a discuss thread doesn't make it a discuss thread. Say it as it is. You saw the changes, without thinking too much about them, you made this post. After, realized it's not that bad. You gotta accept you failed there, not answer everyone who doesn't understand why you QQed, like if you were right from the start.

My point is that there is no discussion really to be made. The SoC changes are interesting but without PTR numbers there's not really a lot you can talk about.

The few paragraphs of whining about how you actually going to have to download omen now to tank is not something we need to discuss. Prot's were slightly overpowered in a variety of ways and all of those have had varying degrees of nerfs. Whats more to be said until we have numbers from the PTR? Nothing....therfore what is the point of this thread?

If you'll note, a lot of discussing has been going on. Now, if you have nothing left to contribute to the thread (not that you did in the first place, mind you) please GTFO. Thanks =D

[dadou131988]

My point is that there is no discussion really to be made. The SoC changes are interesting but without PTR numbers there's not really a lot you can talk about.

The few paragraphs of whining about how you actually going to have to download omen now to tank is not something we need to discuss. Prot's were slightly overpowered in a variety of ways and all of those have had varying degrees of nerfs. Whats more to be said until we have numbers from the PTR? Nothing....therfore what is the point of this thread?

If there is no dicussion to be made, then why are you still here discussing?

Why are you trying to stir up shit?


Either contribute to something or leave, enough with your trolling...

[Lark]

Seal change seems good but I'd be happier if they admitting we're supposed to seal swap (which we currently are, mind you) and address the too many glyphs thing. Still, it is nice to see SoComm get a real niche, even if it is a small one.

Touched by the light and hammer changes seem too minor if they're actually serious about chasing the spec out of 2v2. Prot/holy is, to be honest, not exactly the sort of thing you get to call OP. It's good, but all healers are pretty good right about now...

[Eärendil]

This change to protection is to prevent the prot/holy spec from being ridiculously overpowered as it is now. Right now Touched By the Light grants prot/holy paladins more Spellpower (if they itemize in holy pvp gear) than holy paladins, as they have a ton of spellpower, but the huge amount of stamina that pvp holy gear gives also increases the spellpower even more <- this is what blizzard wanted to prevent, and this seems like a good way to do it, the numbers however can be tweaked to prevent loss of threat generation. But truthfully, in my own prot gear, (even though I'm retribution) I've never had any issues holding aggro.

[TheMediator]

This was needed. Hopefully, this will solve the ProtHealer Problem. But its now basically the same amount as the retreibution talent.

It won't. Prot/Holy still will have just fine healing, better survivability, and better control. Until Avenger's Shield Silence and improved HoJ are gone (Or holy gets a buff to its ability to control enemies), Prot/Holy will reign supreme.

[Wendelboe]

Overall I dont see much problems with the changes. Im a little bummed by gaining 10 sec to our interupt CD, but one little tallent point can put it back to 40 sec CD if so desired. Other than that, threat is a non-issue at the moment, and I dont think a 5% reduction when all is said and done will break us.

[Omgitschris]

The Best way to fix the prot healer issue is to take away the crit bonus to heals. Why that's there I have no idea, seeing as how a tank isn't going to heal himself anyway and the only one I can think of is Lay on Hands which lol is pointless to consider to begin with.

Revert it back to stamina, switch places with Judgements of the Just (maybe idk if that would help), and take away that crit heal bonus. You could even change the wording to just make it convert stamina into spell damage only instead of total spellpower. I know they have differentiation between damage and healing still, I see it with Flametongue Weapon/Earthliving Weapon on my alt shaman.

[Keile]

The Best way to fix the prot healer issue is to take away the crit bonus to heals. Why that's there I have no idea, seeing as how a tank isn't going to heal himself anyway and the only one I can think of is Lay on Hands which lol is pointless to consider to begin with.

It'd there so that in a situation where that pally isnt the MT, and they get a chance to toss a heal on someone and it CRITS, it is going to count.

[Nillo]

It'd there so that in a situation where that pally isnt the MT, and they get a chance to toss a heal on someone and it CRITS, it is going to count.

Want to see you heal with 1000+heal, low crit %age and 8k mana, even Retadins are rarely healing in Raids and their + heal Talent is FAR better than the Protadin's and they have the crit rate to get the bonus effect.

[xenosion]

After reading the OP and the posts thereafter, I felt compelled to register myself and say something..SPF18: You sir, are pathetically full of yourself. To think having the amazing threat you're accustomed to has anything to do with your skill as a tank is so false. Yes, some amount of skill and intelligent talent placement can give you more TPS than the next Paladin tank, but there is just no way a half-brained Paladin can fail enough to drop below another tank class in TPS. This is the definition of over powered.

But hey, I'm not QQ'ing about it. I have a well geared and well played Death Knight tank myself and I have become accustomed this reality. The DPS in our guild have been spoiled by our Paladin tanks. I have taken this as an opportunity to push my personal envelope and have changed my spec and stats to accommodate this; and I do say, I have done well. I can most definitely stay close to our Paladin tanks at times and usually do not have too much of an issue with TPS for our DPS.

In all honesty, you sound like you want the skills of a good player spoon fed to you from a silver platter. How about you work for your TPS as much as everyone else has.

[Omgitschris]

It'd there so that in a situation where that pally isnt the MT, and they get a chance to toss a heal on someone and it CRITS, it is going to count.

1) Dual-spec solves this issue, if you're on a fight that requires your OT to be healing whilst in tank gear you're either doing Steelbreaker Hard Mode or you're doing it wrong really.
2) The chance of the Paladin criting is quite minimal, it's basically a wasted talent if it didn't have the spellpower conversion from stamina.
3) If at any moment your OT has to heal, it better be because all the healers are dead and whatever boss you're doing better be at like 1%, otherwise, get new healers.

[Pretorian]

...even Retadins are rarely healing in Raids and their + heal Talent is FAR better than the Protadin's and they have the crit rate to get the bonus effect.

We actually do throw flash(es) of light quite often in raids because it crits most of the time and leaves quite a nice HoT on the target. And I preffer doing that on a raid mate with low HP, rather than doing an Exorcism. I find it extremely helpfull on tanks, in Hard Modes; that second in between healer's casts MATTERS !

And I'm really glad they're working on SoC, would rather use that on trash and short fights and not SoR. Waiting for the numbers...

[Nillo]

We actually do throw flash(es) of light quite often in raids because it crits most of the time and leaves quite a nice HoT on the target. And I preffer doing that on a raid mate with low HP, rather than doing an Exorcism. I find it extremely helpfull on tanks, in Hard Modes; that second in between healer's casts MATTERS !

I used to throw fols in 3.1 as well but right now there are too little gcds left and we have less mana to support spamming fols because Glyph of SoMartyr was removed and the hot effect from Sacred Shield is even harder to get because we are no longer able to spec into DG without gimping our Seal dmg. It only comes in handy on XT hard to place a nice gravity bomb far away from the group.

And just as i mentioned Prot healing is FAR worse than that !_!, the only reason to have + heal is to have a slightly better SS and crit bonus doesn't give us anything as Protadins.

[arel00]

The only thing that slightly bothers me is the Hammer CD change, I quite liked a short cd on a PvE interrupt. Regarding the threat, hell I can live with that. Instead of 2.7 total modifier it will be just a 2.6, meaning a 5.3% nerf on the holy threat. Big deal :P

Regaring the TbtL change, about fucking time they destroyed the prot/holy spec. Regarding SoComm change, seems nice, but we'll see.

[cappytoi]

The only thing that slightly bothers me is the Hammer CD change, I quite liked a short cd on a PvE interrupt. Regarding the threat, hell I can live with that. Instead of 2.7 total modifier it will be just a 2.6, meaning a 5.3% nerf on the holy threat. Big deal :P

Regaring the TbtL change, about fucking time they destroyed the prot/holy spec. Regarding SoComm change, seems nice, but we'll see.

With the SoV change i find 10-15% increase in my sustained threat. I think it will be nearly same like before patch. If it would be a problem, we can always stack some BV pieces to increase our threat.

[arel00]

This becomes a problem with the ~2.7K (At 80) BV cap that ShoR can use (Your BV can go above that, but ShoR's BASE damage won't exceed it). With Librams, set bonuses and such, i find that i'm already quite close to that point.

Like you said, our TPS will be back down where it was.

Nah, it will be still more that before 3.2. We're talking about a 5% or smaller nerf here.