I don't understand shadowflame.

[LavaDuck]

And disagreement without hostility is the kind of thing I enjoy. Thanks for not resorting to comments about my mother

http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=13011

[Abandon]

I think the problem here, for me, has always been that locks already have a long list of excessively niche spells, cough Hellfire cough. Why would one of our two new baseline spells for LK be such a hard-to-find-a-use-for spell?

Compare with stuff some other classes got:
-Frostfire bolt (created entire new specs!)
-Tricks of the Trade (exceptional by any standard)

Some more spec-specific or limited use:
-Mind sear (priests can aoe now)
-Savage roar (hi, now feral have an SnD-quality finisher)
-Shield of Righteousness (massive snap threat)
-Lava Burst (what, elem can cast another spell now?)
-Empower Rune Weapon (very nice pve and pvp for a class so dependent on resource management)
-Enraged Regeneration (eh, it's a survivally heal cooldown for a class that hasn't had one)
-Master's Call (kind of odd, but yet another potentially potent mechanic for hunters)

Then you compare:
-Shadowflame (at least now you don't have to talent shadowburn when you don't want to finish with searing pain?)

Sure, it glyphs to be useful. Why wasn't it just.. useful.. in the first place?
Are locks in such a dominant position pvp-wise (maybe are now with wizard cleave, dunno) that Blizz had to be so ginger with our abilities?

You forgot about some of the other amazing skills people got this expansion.

Frezing Arrow Trap!
Hymn of Hope, if you get back mana from it it almost gives you enough to get back into Shadowform, which it breaks.
Mirror Image, they used to do damage, then got nerfed before anyone could use them.

Just because it isn't amazing doesn't make it useless. And requiring a glyph to make it useable is a lot like Mind Flay. At least this glyph is not required in order to even attempt PVP or PVE.

[Galith]

The reason I have shadowflame (non-glyphed) keybouned is so that I can run around in the middle of the raid with my macro going "BLAAAAAH" at people. That is the ultimate purpose for the spell.
OBVI

[Ofmanv]

You cant argue a point with a ridiculous statement. No Warlock "...[runs] up to melee range....to do optimal damage." Instead people use it for "oh sh!t, i was just charged," [hit key Shadowflame]... port. Its a utility, not a major source of our damage. It allows for slight burst damage with a DoT while mobile. i understand that you were trying to say that being in melee range isnt something locks should strive to achieve but as it stands, warlocks find themselves in that position a lot (destro less than others).

But we're discussing "how would you change shadowflame?" and I said not by increasing shadowflame's damage.

Yes, at shadowflame's current damage no one is going to start running up to things because they want to shadowflame for damage. Buffing shadowflame's damage to a certain point, though, could lead to that scenario.

[Darkengelion]

Shadowflame is fine...if you dont like it...dont use it... Its an awesome spell for kiting in arena and good extra dot.

[gherkin]

Shadowflame is fine...if you dont like it...dont use it... Its an awesome spell for kiting in arena and good extra dot.

I'll save you the trouble Ofmanv: WHAARGARBL

[Darkengelion]

Ask yourself this: "What was the purpose of shadowflame before it had a glyph" or "In what situation would I cast this unglyphed"

The spell absolutely has no purpose unglyphed. I know a lot of people dismiss this saying, it has the glyph of shadowflame now, it doesn't matter.

Ah yeh, forgot to tell what its good for without glyphing...for example kill the tiny little spiders hunters send you in pvp...

[shrug]

I'm going to preface my post by saying I have limited knowledge of the warlock class in its entirety and if that gets me flamed for opening my mouth then so be it. This aside I'll tell you what I see just from reading the tool tip on the spell and ignoring the effects of the glyph:

1: instant cast To me this screams obvious mobility spell, which from my experience is a typical warlock trait when compared to other classes.

2: damage over time component Another classic warlock trait with the heavy emphasis on damage over time.

3: multiple target cone attack So there is a melee based area effect component as well.

Together what do these three components tell me? Shadowflame is supposed to be a high mobility area effect attack with the added damage over time component to make it feel more like the warlock class.

Now where does this fit into practical usage? I'm going out on a limb here with my weakness regarding warlock knowledge, but I would say maybe toss this in between the other traditional area effect spells when movement is required either because of the ever popular "don't stand in fire" or general repositioning.

As far as the glyph is concerned, it seems to me on paper it takes a more favorable PvE ability and makes it very useful for PvP. (again, this is all theoretical so take it as you want)

How to change this spell to make it better? In order to answer this the spell needs to have a clear identity for when it is used. I am inclined to believe that if blizzard does change this spell the fix would more clearly define the intent of the spell.


Well, that's my opinion, I hope it helps somebody as I have enjoyed reading the discussion in this thread and felt the view of somebody less deeply involved in the class may shed some new thought or at least just provide further amusement.

/shrug

[chamelondrew]

I use mine for a quick AoE agenst some of the easier CoT4 kills. The ones that get in the way and im on a time limit. For other stuff like that aswell. For when i dont have time to sit there and cast HellFire, or dont want to waste the mana on Rain of fire for only a 1 second period.

[scandore8472]

Worst new spell ever. Not only is it useless, but it was broken until last patch. I was hoping fixing the angle of the cone would make it a little better, but it didn't.

I use it in raiding if I happen to be close to the trash, which I rarely am, then I rain of fire. I never use it in PVP because I don't have enough key binds. Maybe if I were a clicker, I'd think different of the spell?


And to whoever said teleport was bad, please. It's probably one of the best kiting spells in the game, it just requires planning. In addition to PVP, I use it in almost every boss fight. Get launched in the air? teleport and avoid fall damage, and get back to dpsing faster. Boss rooted you, teleport. Shadowcrash on you? teleport. Kolo fixes his eyes on you? teleport. Adds on XT teleport. I could go on.

[Xerses]

From a "design point of view", initially shadowflame was supposed to be the warlock's Dragon's Breath. On beta, it didn't even activate conflag but did insane damage and the dot was great too (like double what it does now). Then they reduced it by 75%, buffed it again, then suddenly november came and they stopped tweaking things in preparation for the launch. Somewhere along the way they added the conflag thing.

Of course, shadowflame turned out to be utter shit. So they gave it a glyph hoping it wouldn't be so shit. The fact that they only fixed the range in 3.2 just shows that not even the designers bothered with using it.

[Ashelyb]

Can't say i would ever use conflagrate in conjunction with shadowflame. I tried it once and it only crit for 3k =(

[Terrab]

...
It just irks me. Blizzard is usually very reasonable. Every class got only 2 or 3 new spells in WoTLK. In warlock's case, we got 2.
...

Oh really. Demonic circle/teleport, haunt, metamorphisis + several abilities that go with it, chaos bolt, shadowflame.

Don't get me wrong I like my lock aot but we got more than 2 spells.

[Engentlmn]

Advantages of Shadowflame pre-glyph:

1. Instant way of applying a debuff which allows the use of conflagorate

2. An instant spell guaranteed to do about 1000 damage. I cannot tell you how many times ive brought down a target simply by hitting them with Shadowflame.

[cowcaw]

Oh really. Demonic circle/teleport, haunt, metamorphisis + several abilities that go with it, chaos bolt, shadowflame.

Don't get me wrong I like my lock aot but we got more than 2 spells.

Demonic Circle/Teleport and Shadowflame are the only trainable (non-talent) abilities we got.

[DocQuantum]

PvP: Glyphed. 'nuff said.

PvE: I'm deep demo (for Demonic Pact raid utility). I often find myself in melee range of mobs (Metamorphosis form Immolate) that are about to die. I don't have time to get off a Shadow Bolt... so an instant damage effect is nice for that little extra burst. No, it's not great. No, it's not game breaking. Just makes me feel better than not hitting a key, actually...

[Terrab]

Demonic Circle/Teleport and Shadowflame are the only trainable (non-talent) abilities we got.

Why are you playing an untalented lock? What does it matter if the ability is trainable or talented unless you're playing a lock without talents?