The Future of Paladins

[Crispybacon]

In before "QQ moar" or "l2P", the only people who reply saying lines like that are faggots who think they're hot shit for being an ass to someone. This post is by a long-time paladin analyzing the class and where it stands in pvp. Hopefully I can spark the interest of the few intelligent members of mmo-champion and get a discussion going.

Blizzard has stated that they ideally want every talent tree of every class to be viable in pvp. One problem with this is that there isn't enough variation between talent trees for any given class. A given talent tree will only give you 3-4 new abilities at most, so no matter what spec you are you're relying on baseline abilities that every tree has access to. With such similarities in gameplay and mechanics, one spec will inevitably be "superior" and become the dominant pvp spec.

Another major problem is tanking-oriented trees. When a large aspect of arena revolves around "gibbing" an opponent, dumping a 40k hp prot warrior into the arena skews any attempts at balancing survivability. How do you gib a beast like that? You can't. There is a fine balance between survivability and damage dealt. Some classes, such as arcane mages, give up survivability and gain burst damage. And vice versa. But for a tank to be even remotely competitive in arena, they need to do enough to pressure the opposing team.

This is all leading up to prot pallies. Ret deals damage and holy heals. Ok. So give prot some survivability and CCs/interrupts and that should balance the spec in pvp. Cool. But now in pve, prot pallies need spell power so we give them a talent for that too. Cool. They also want pve prot pallies to not have to worry about mana, so give them the ability to have 100% uptime on divine plea. Fair enough.

The end result? A pally specced into prot but with healing gear equipped will outheal the pally specced into deep holy. Not only do his flash of lights heal for monstrous amounts, but he has infinite mana and a huge amount of CC.

The reason pallies are speccing into this is because, well, holy sucks. I played holy up to around 2300 (with a warlock) in 2s and I could no longer compete with the infinite mana of resto druids, or the offensive abilities of priests, or the survivability of prot pallies, so I had to give in and switch to prot. The spec is so incredibly dumbed down, I hate it. It consists of putting up sacred shield, then spamming flash of light until you have to replace the key on your keyboard. But blizzard trapped us into abusing this spec, because it's the only spec that can compete with the other healing classes. If you play this spec for a day you've already hit the skill cap, so anyone who picks up the class can become a pro arena hero with little effort.

Blizzard is shitting all over the prot spec next patch, as they should. They didn't intend for prot to be a healing spec, so they're fixing it. Nothing wrong with that. The problem, however, is they have no plans to compensate us by fixing the holy tree. In short, they're destroying our one viable healing spec and leaving us with nothing.

I can't say they're completely destroying prot healing, though. The sad thing is, even after their nerfs, prot healing will still be more viable than holy healing because of how bad holy is. So a lot of pallies will still be speccing prot to heal, but now they'll be subpar and struggling to compete.

Onto ret. Ret is a broken spec, simply put. The spec used to be able to kill a target within the duration of a HoJ stun, so they nerfed it's damage. And then they nerfed it again. And again... and again. Ret has been beaten up so badly by the nerfbat that you can't kill anyone with it on its own. While other classes rely on interrupts and MS effects to kill a target, ret relies on spamming 3 spammable damage abilities. Every pvp fight feels like patchwerk. It's true that ret has useful tools, such as cleanse and HoP, but on its own ret is as useful as a level 19 magikarp (All it does is splash!). Ret is broken because all they do is spam damage abilities, and their lack of interrupts makes them a joke to all healers.

Summary - Pally representation is going to decline, because the class is too simple. Holy and ret pallies lack the tools necessary to compete in arena, and thus have almost completely disappeared from arena. While prot pally healing is currently a viable spec, it too suffers the curse of being painfully simple and having a low skill cap. Furthermore, blizzard is nerfing prot healing without giving any compensation for holy, which will result in less pallies in high-end arena.

I think the best solution for holy would be to give some offensive utility. It would be nice if they gave the silencing shield to holy, or made it accessibly in one of the earlier tiers of prot. As for ret, give them an interrupt for god's sake. Maybe a talent where if you judge them while casting, it interrupts their spellcasting for 2 seconds. Something to trip up healers and interrupt casters. Anything.

Discuss.

[Antdog]

At the start of wrath, ret pallys were pretty bad ass.

They have been nerffed and nerffed because no melee spec class with healz can be just as viable as war/dk/rogue.

I play feral pvp, and I keep asking blizz to buff us. You know what they keep telling me (an the feral community), we are trying to make a viable spec for each class. Resto is the druids premier arena spec.

This is why ret was shoot down so many times, patch after patch. Look at ench shammy's and feral druids, its hard for us to compete in arena as well.

Roll Holy if you want a compete in high end arena brackets. Its just the truth.

[Critterbot]

I do agree on one thing, paladins really need some kind of interupt ability, I've been missing it all my time as a paladin. When i'm fighting healing specs all I can do is watch them heal themselves and I can do little about it unless I'm not alone. Sure I have my stun and repentance but you have trinket/racial for that and repentance breaks on dmg. I mean come on, every other class has it. :-\

[Abandon]

I do agree on one thing, paladins really need some kind of interupt ability, I've been missing it all my time as a paladin. When i'm fighting healing specs all I can do is watch them heal themselves and I can do little about it unless I'm not alone. Sure I have my stun and repentance but you have trinket/racial for that and repentance breaks on dmg. I mean come on, every other class has it. :-\

Priests don't.

[Lionne]

In before "QQ moar" or "l2P", the only people who reply saying lines like that are faggots who think they're hot shit for being an ass to someone. This post is by a long-time paladin analyzing the class and where it stands in pvp. Hopefully I can spark the interest of the few intelligent members of mmo-champion and get a discussion going.

First off, players write "qq more" and "l2p", because, honestly, that is often the issue. People tend to either take all the negative sides of a class to heart and focus on them over and over and over again until they hate the class they play. Or they view a class weakness as a design flaw, complaining about them instead of working to get around them.

And after reading your post, you really did not analyze very much.

The reason pallies are speccing into this is because, well, holy sucks. I played holy up to around 2300 (with a warlock) in 2s and I could no longer compete with the infinite mana of resto druids, or the offensive abilities of priests, or the survivability of prot pallies, so I had to give in and switch to prot. The spec is so incredibly dumbed down, I hate it. It consists of putting up sacred shield, then spamming flash of light until you have to replace the key on your keyboard. But blizzard trapped us into abusing this spec, because it's the only spec that can compete with the other healing classes. If you play this spec for a day you've already hit the skill cap, so anyone who picks up the class can become a pro arena hero with little effort.

See, I have to disagree here, Holy by no means suck. This is a problem that arises when people compare one spec to another that is overpowered. (There are no ifs or buts here, the prot-healing spec is overpowered.)

I do agree that Holy is way too simple to play, and I believe Ghostcrawler has mentioned that they are working on that.

Onto ret. Ret is a broken spec, simply put. The spec used to be able to kill a target within the duration of a HoJ stun, so they nerfed it's damage. And then they nerfed it again. And again... and again. Ret has been beaten up so badly by the nerfbat that you can't kill anyone with it on its own. While other classes rely on interrupts and MS effects to kill a target, ret relies on spamming 3 spammable damage abilities. Every pvp fight feels like patchwerk. It's true that ret has useful tools, such as cleanse and HoP, but on its own ret is as useful as a level 19 magikarp (All it does is splash!). Ret is broken because all they do is spam damage abilities, and their lack of interrupts makes them a joke to all healers.

Simply put: It isn't. You're right, Rets are not good at taking down healers. But they are very good at taking down Meleers. A huge advantage that Paladins often seem to forget. Again, do not compare Ret to the Prot-Holy build, that build is overpowered. We'll see very quickly once S7 starts propper how Retribution stands once it's out of Prot's shadow. People often misread statistics. Just because only 17% of Arena'ing Paladins are Ret (I have no clue if that is accurate, but it's besides the point I'm trying to make) It doesn't mean Ret is bad, it means it's worse/less prefered than Prot.

Furthermore, blizzard is nerfing prot healing without giving any compensation for holy, which will result in less pallies in high-end arena.

I believe that is the intend of upcoming nerfs, since Paladins are hugely overrepresented currently.

EDIT: Sorry, meant S7

[nerzhull]

In before "QQ moar" or "l2P", the only people who reply saying lines like that are faggots who think they're hot shit for being an ass to someone. This post is by a long-time paladin analyzing the class and where it stands in pvp. Hopefully I can spark the interest of the few intelligent members of mmo-champion and get a discussion going.

Blizzard has stated that they ideally want every talent tree of every class to be viable in pvp. One problem with this is that there isn't enough variation between talent trees for any given class. A given talent tree will only give you 3-4 new abilities at most, so no matter what spec you are you're relying on baseline abilities that every tree has access to. With such similarities in gameplay and mechanics, one spec will inevitably be "superior" and become the dominant pvp spec.

Another major problem is tanking-oriented trees. When a large aspect of arena revolves around "gibbing" an opponent, dumping a 40k hp prot warrior into the arena skews any attempts at balancing survivability. How do you gib a beast like that? You can't. There is a fine balance between survivability and damage dealt. Some classes, such as arcane mages, give up survivability and gain burst damage. And vice versa. But for a tank to be even remotely competitive in arena, they need to do enough to pressure the opposing team.

This is all leading up to prot pallies. Ret deals damage and holy heals. Ok. So give prot some survivability and CCs/interrupts and that should balance the spec in pvp. Cool. But now in pve, prot pallies need spell power so we give them a talent for that too. Cool. They also want pve prot pallies to not have to worry about mana, so give them the ability to have 100% uptime on divine plea. Fair enough.

The end result? A pally specced into prot but with healing gear equipped will outheal the pally specced into deep holy. Not only do his flash of lights heal for monstrous amounts, but he has infinite mana and a huge amount of CC.

The reason pallies are speccing into this is because, well, holy sucks. I played holy up to around 2300 (with a warlock) in 2s and I could no longer compete with the infinite mana of resto druids, or the offensive abilities of priests, or the survivability of prot pallies, so I had to give in and switch to prot. The spec is so incredibly dumbed down, I hate it. It consists of putting up sacred shield, then spamming flash of light until you have to replace the key on your keyboard. But blizzard trapped us into abusing this spec, because it's the only spec that can compete with the other healing classes. If you play this spec for a day you've already hit the skill cap, so anyone who picks up the class can become a pro arena hero with little effort.

Blizzard is shitting all over the prot spec next patch, as they should. They didn't intend for prot to be a healing spec, so they're fixing it. Nothing wrong with that. The problem, however, is they have no plans to compensate us by fixing the holy tree. In short, they're destroying our one viable healing spec and leaving us with nothing.

I can't say they're completely destroying prot healing, though. The sad thing is, even after their nerfs, prot healing will still be more viable than holy healing because of how bad holy is. So a lot of pallies will still be speccing prot to heal, but now they'll be subpar and struggling to compete.

Onto ret. Ret is a broken spec, simply put. The spec used to be able to kill a target within the duration of a HoJ stun, so they nerfed it's damage. And then they nerfed it again. And again... and again. Ret has been beaten up so badly by the nerfbat that you can't kill anyone with it on its own. While other classes rely on interrupts and MS effects to kill a target, ret relies on spamming 3 spammable damage abilities. Every pvp fight feels like patchwerk. It's true that ret has useful tools, such as cleanse and HoP, but on its own ret is as useful as a level 19 magikarp (All it does is splash!). Ret is broken because all they do is spam damage abilities, and their lack of interrupts makes them a joke to all healers.

Summary - Pally representation is going to decline, because the class is too simple. Holy and ret pallies lack the tools necessary to compete in arena, and thus have almost completely disappeared from arena. While prot pally healing is currently a viable spec, it too suffers the curse of being painfully simple and having a low skill cap. Furthermore, blizzard is nerfing prot healing without giving any compensation for holy, which will result in less pallies in high-end arena.

I think the best solution for holy would be to give some offensive utility. It would be nice if they gave the silencing shield to holy, or made it accessibly in one of the earlier tiers of prot. As for ret, give them an interrupt for god's sake. Maybe a talent where if you judge them while casting, it interrupts their spellcasting for 2 seconds. Something to trip up healers and interrupt casters. Anything.

Discuss.

Fail.

If you have even half decent gear, a ret pally can kill a 850 resilience DK like me within 4 second hammer. I've had it happen.

Second, holy sucks? Beacon of light = double heals?

Try again

[Marvdatboi]

Since I have to be that "Guy".... QQ & L2P is what I'll say to you good sir.

[darthxs]

Fail.

If you have even half decent gear, a ret pally can kill a 850 resilience DK like me within 4 second hammer. I've had it happen.

Second, holy sucks? Beacon of light = double heals?

Try again

850 resil dk being killed in a hammer... im sorry but you just failed at the game know as world of warcraft.

[IhatePvE]

Fail.

If you have even half decent gear, a ret pally can kill a 850 resilience DK like me within 4 second hammer. I've had it happen.

Second, holy sucks? Beacon of light = double heals?

Try again

Im so sorry, but how did you died within 4 sec as DK when im, as enh at around 900 resil, can survive this?.. Since when DKs are less survivable then enh sham? :

If you say "double heals" do u realise that pally need stand still and spam those heals?..

P.S. ret arent "more broken" then others (spriest, enh-ele shamys, feral druids, boomkins, hunters etc).

[Svenskpally]

If i Dk dies within 4 sec, u fail (srry) A ret pally have less burst then a arms warrior nowdays. Sure we can heal so i have np with that. I have 1 problem tho. We need a intreupt. The only class who dont have a intreupt is Priests and Paladins. They need to specc into a silence effect. Give a ret paladin a intrupt.

I belive that why peopels are QQ about ret paladins and Prot/holy paladins is becous they have not been a viable specc in to arena. Peopels are not used to them. We are not QQ about resto druids the same way they cry a prot/holy paladin is unkillable. U can't CC a druid (if u do not have a warlock close by) u can't slow him, you can't oom him, and u can't interupt him. All of those things is what u can do to a protpaladin whit no problem.

[enoesiw]

In before "QQ moar" or "l2P", the only people who reply saying lines like that are faggots who think they're hot shit for being an ass to someone. This post is by a long-time paladin analyzing the class and where it stands in pvp. Hopefully I can spark the interest of the few intelligent members of mmo-champion and get a discussion going.

Blizzard has stated that they ideally want every talent tree of every class to be viable in pvp. One problem with this is that there isn't enough variation between talent trees for any given class. A given talent tree will only give you 3-4 new abilities at most, so no matter what spec you are you're relying on baseline abilities that every tree has access to. With such similarities in gameplay and mechanics, one spec will inevitably be "superior" and become the dominant pvp spec.

Another major problem is tanking-oriented trees. When a large aspect of arena revolves around "gibbing" an opponent, dumping a 40k hp prot warrior into the arena skews any attempts at balancing survivability. How do you gib a beast like that? You can't. There is a fine balance between survivability and damage dealt. Some classes, such as arcane mages, give up survivability and gain burst damage. And vice versa. But for a tank to be even remotely competitive in arena, they need to do enough to pressure the opposing team.

This is all leading up to prot pallies. Ret deals damage and holy heals. Ok. So give prot some survivability and CCs/interrupts and that should balance the spec in pvp. Cool. But now in pve, prot pallies need spell power so we give them a talent for that too. Cool. They also want pve prot pallies to not have to worry about mana, so give them the ability to have 100% uptime on divine plea. Fair enough.

The end result? A pally specced into prot but with healing gear equipped will outheal the pally specced into deep holy. Not only do his flash of lights heal for monstrous amounts, but he has infinite mana and a huge amount of CC.

The reason pallies are speccing into this is because, well, holy sucks. I played holy up to around 2300 (with a warlock) in 2s and I could no longer compete with the infinite mana of resto druids, or the offensive abilities of priests, or the survivability of prot pallies, so I had to give in and switch to prot. The spec is so incredibly dumbed down, I hate it. It consists of putting up sacred shield, then spamming flash of light until you have to replace the key on your keyboard. But blizzard trapped us into abusing this spec, because it's the only spec that can compete with the other healing classes. If you play this spec for a day you've already hit the skill cap, so anyone who picks up the class can become a pro arena hero with little effort.

Blizzard is shitting all over the prot spec next patch, as they should. They didn't intend for prot to be a healing spec, so they're fixing it. Nothing wrong with that. The problem, however, is they have no plans to compensate us by fixing the holy tree. In short, they're destroying our one viable healing spec and leaving us with nothing.

I can't say they're completely destroying prot healing, though. The sad thing is, even after their nerfs, prot healing will still be more viable than holy healing because of how bad holy is. So a lot of pallies will still be speccing prot to heal, but now they'll be subpar and struggling to compete.

Onto ret. Ret is a broken spec, simply put. The spec used to be able to kill a target within the duration of a HoJ stun, so they nerfed it's damage. And then they nerfed it again. And again... and again. Ret has been beaten up so badly by the nerfbat that you can't kill anyone with it on its own. While other classes rely on interrupts and MS effects to kill a target, ret relies on spamming 3 spammable damage abilities. Every pvp fight feels like patchwerk. It's true that ret has useful tools, such as cleanse and HoP, but on its own ret is as useful as a level 19 magikarp (All it does is splash!). Ret is broken because all they do is spam damage abilities, and their lack of interrupts makes them a joke to all healers.

Summary - Pally representation is going to decline, because the class is too simple. Holy and ret pallies lack the tools necessary to compete in arena, and thus have almost completely disappeared from arena. While prot pally healing is currently a viable spec, it too suffers the curse of being painfully simple and having a low skill cap. Furthermore, blizzard is nerfing prot healing without giving any compensation for holy, which will result in less pallies in high-end arena.

I think the best solution for holy would be to give some offensive utility. It would be nice if they gave the silencing shield to holy, or made it accessibly in one of the earlier tiers of prot. As for ret, give them an interrupt for god's sake. Maybe a talent where if you judge them while casting, it interrupts their spellcasting for 2 seconds. Something to trip up healers and interrupt casters. Anything.

Discuss.

First I want to point out MAJOR FAIL ON THE POKEMONS!!! Magikarp at 19 has Splash and TACKLE (in fact you get tackle at 15). Making it very viable against those level 2 and 3 starter zone creatures.

Second, you get no sympathy from me. You play a Paladin. You have to worry about very little when you play a paladin. Seriously, Paladins are one of the easiest classes to learn and execute. You want a challenge? Play a mage in the World of Cleavecraft. Sure we can get up there, but it takes skill, not button mashing (and a good rogue, but even the best rogue can't help you if you're an average mage). Think mage is too easy? Roll something that really is underpowered in arenas. You'll run back to Paladin like you wouldn't believe.

[Tullkas]

I think OP is right in most of his post but I feel there a bit too much 2v2 focus. In next season 3v3 will be the main bracket and I dont think that holy or ret paly will be that bad there.

Sure there are some issues in holy tree, utility (offensive) and survivability is a problem compared to the prot-healing build. Yes prot-healing was OP and deserved the nerf but it is still playable and in 3v3 there are double healer teams (prot-heal paly, druid or priest, warrior) which can and IMO will be viable. Blizzard nerfed the spec but didnt destroy it completely, when I will regem from pure STA to pure SP and change a trinket I will loose like 5,5K HP and 300SP which is still better imo then a squishy holy paly pillar jumping style for 2v2 or can be used for 2healer 3v3 team. Hell priest can take more beating from rogue then me as a holy paly plate healer....

At least they should change Blessed Life to 2 point perma 6% damage reduction, and Sacred Cleansing to something usable, I see just too much "has a chance" talents there which is not reliable in PvP.

IMO blizzard should also add to PvP holy gear and PvP dps gear another 4 piece set bonus for deep prot speced healers and dpsers. As they are saying they have no problem if ppl spec deep in prot and according to them they want all trees to be viable for PvP, so why to not support it in such a simple way.

Too many nerfs, no buffs.... not QQing, I would just expect from them to be more creative.

For RET its really hard now in 2v2 they cant kill a shit if there is a healer. Interrupt is needed but not on CS obviously and if they get one the horde palies racial must be changed to something else.

[Crispybacon]

First off, players write "qq more" and "l2p", because, honestly, that is often the issue. People tend to either take all the negative sides of a class to heart and focus on them over and over and over again until they hate the class they play. Or they view a class weakness as a design flaw, complaining about them instead of working to get around them.

And after reading your post, you really did not analyze very much.

Even if the OP is crying and ranting over some nerf, posting "QQmore" or "l2p" is just the sad attempt at a troll and does nothing. If you really think they shouldn't be crying, explain why the nerfs are justified or how they're not that bad. Posts like that can literally be made by 3 year olds, and I swear to God sometimes it sounds like that's what's happening.

And how did I not analyze? I just broke down every spec in arena, and explained it's strengths and weaknesses. I then went on to predict the problems that will arise from blizzard's actions, certain measures that could be taken, and what specific talents/abilities as of now need to be reworked and fixed.

See, I have to disagree here, Holy by no means suck. This is a problem that arises when people compare one spec to another that is overpowered. (There are no ifs or buts here, the prot-healing spec is overpowered.)

Ok, then compare holy to another class. Believe what you want, but playing as holy is an uphill battle against priests, druids, and even shamans (and shamans suck right now). We lack the tools and utility to defend ourselves against offensive healers like priests, and don't have the CC of druids.

Simply put: It isn't. You're right, Rets are not good at taking down healers. But they are very good at taking down Meleers. A huge advantage that Paladins often seem to forget. Again, do not compare Ret to the Prot-Holy build, that build is overpowered. We'll see very quickly once S7 starts propper how Retribution stands once it's out of Prot's shadow. People often misread statistics. Just because only 17% of Arena'ing Paladins are Ret (I have no clue if that is accurate, but it's besides the point I'm trying to make) It doesn't mean Ret is bad, it means it's worse/less prefered than Prot.

Did I not say that prot was OP? And your last point is wrong. It's one thing to switch from one dps spec to another (Like from Fury to Arms) but you can't just switch from a dps spec to a healing spec (ret to prot). Most pallies don't have the gear or time to just switch to prot, most ret pallies stay ret because they've already invested so much time into it. The transition from holy to prot-healing was easy because you didn't need new gear and it involved healers becoming different healers, but you'll find that most ret pallies stay ret.

Fail.

If you have even half decent gear, a ret pally can kill a 850 resilience DK like me within 4 second hammer. I've had it happen.

Second, holy sucks? Beacon of light = double heals?

Try again

Haha. I lol'd at your 100% bullshit story of a ret pally killing you in 4 seconds, especially as a DK. People like you making up shit like that are the reason blizzard is still nerfing ret. At least make it believable.

And beacon isn't that good, at least in 2s. Someday when you break out of the 1300 bracket, you'll realize that mana conservation starts to matter.

Second, you get no sympathy from me. You play a Paladin. You have to worry about very little when you play a paladin. Seriously, Paladins are one of the easiest classes to learn and execute. You want a challenge? Play a mage in the World of Cleavecraft. Sure we can get up there, but it takes skill, not button mashing (and a good rogue, but even the best rogue can't help you if you're an average mage). Think mage is too easy? Roll something that really is underpowered in arenas. You'll run back to Paladin like you wouldn't believe.

Good thing I wasn't going for sympathy. Agreed, paladins are one of the easiest classes to learn and execute, which was one of my complaints. And as a matter of fact I have an 80 hunter that I pvp with. Playing a hunter in pvp will make playing a mage seem faceroll.

I think OP is right in most of his post but I feel there a bit too much 2v2 focus. In next season 3v3 will be the main bracket and I dont think that holy or ret paly will be that bad there.

Yeah true, but if you check my armory you'll see I only play 2s. 3s and 5s feel too clusterfuck for me.

[rettet181]

Ok, then compare holy to another class. Believe what you want, but playing as holy is an uphill battle against priests, druids, and even shamans (and shamans suck right now).

Err, what?

As you said, protholy is massively overpowered. Representation is way off for paladins right now, as it has been since Wrath launched. Prot will get nerfed, and I don't think Holy needs a buff. It will still serve fine in 3's where it matters (Blizz has officially given up on 2's, but Holy will continue to be vialbe there anyway), and there SHOULD be less paladins in high end arena. Seriously, at least half or more of the paladins there should drop out of glad range, and I would expect to see a several hundred point average drop in ratings for every paladin. This will cause an endless amount of tears, but that's what happens when your class is overpowered and it's brought back in line.

You are going to be nerfed. They are not going to "fix" a spec that is not broken, just because your representation is going to drop. It is supposed to drop. Deal with it.

[nerzhull]

Haha. I lol'd at your 100% bullshit story of a ret pally killing you in 4 seconds, especially as a DK. People like you making up shit like that are the reason blizzard is still nerfing ret. At least make it believable.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...7dorei&n=Ayena

Armory link of the paladin that managed to kill me in 4 seconds. Sure she had a bunch of raid buffs from the start of the BG but 4 seconds?

Please bother to look into the story before calling it anything; it would help you out in the future

[nerzhull]

sure you are braindead not to pop-up bonesheild/AMS/IBF coupled with rune tap and death strikes

Pretty sure those are hard to pop while im stunned by hammer of justice. And my pvp trinket was on CD from before.

[rettet181]

Pretty sure those are hard to pop while im stunned by hammer of justice. And my pvp trinket was on CD from before.

Look, I hate ret as much as the next guy, but you died to a fully raid-buffed Ret pally in all PvE gear with your trinket on cooldown and none of your survivability cooldowns up.

Just give it a rest, DK's can do the same.

[Crispybacon]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...7dorei&n=Ayena

Armory link of the paladin that managed to kill me in 4 seconds. Sure she had a bunch of raid buffs from the start of the BG but 4 seconds?

Please bother to look into the story before calling it anything; it would help you out in the future

Sorry, next time I'll hire a detective to uncover the name of the ret pally that killed you on the night of July 17th, 2009. Seriously, how do I "look into the story," it's a random ret pally that killed in some bg.

Oh, and I'm still calling BS. Even if it was possible for that pally to drop you 100 to 0 in 4 seconds and your trinket was down, you could've pet stunned him partway through.

[nerzhull]

Look, I hate ret as much as the next guy, but you died to a fully raid-buffed Ret pally in all PvE gear with your trinket on cooldown and none of your survivability cooldowns up.

Just give it a rest, DK's can do the same.

Not with pally bubbles, or they can stun you and run away. And i had 850 (more or less) resilience.

And that pally in the end doubled the next guys killing blows and face rolled dmg charts. He had 1 death and that was when he was jumped by 4-5 people and his bubble wasn't up

[rettet181]

Not with pally bubbles, or they can stun you and run away. And i had 850 (more or less) resilience.

And that pally in the end doubled the next guys killing blows and face rolled dmg charts. He had 1 death and that was when he was jumped by 4-5 people and his bubble wasn't up

Yeah I can do the same thing on my warlock. As a clothie. BG's are hard.

Battlegrounds mean nothing at all.