Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
  1. #41

    Re: One of the biggest warrior PvP issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxxumus
    To be correct, BOTH warriors and DK"s are both considered HYBRIDS as well, only the Rogue is the true pure melee class of the 3.
    Actually you are wrong. Rogues are the only pure DPS melee class. But they ARE a MELEE class. You can call them a hybrid class all you want but please find me another source of damage coming from a warrior that isnt melee and makes up a good portion of their damage. Oh, wait...

    But please continue to argue with the definition of a word. A tranny can call itself a woman all they want but it will never make it true
    Definition of useless -

    Q. Any plans for an untalented spell to help warlocks deal with stuns?
    A. Possibly. It’s also possible we may take a look at stuns in general. But overall stuns will feel less impacting in an environment where players have significantly more health than they do today.

  2. #42

    Re: One of the biggest warrior PvP issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by omglazor
    Shimo - Battousai is correct, ArP really does help. In addition, there are some gimmick specs that just counter a warrior, namely Holy/Prot for Paladins which is getting nerfed next patch. We've never been able to really take down "tank" specs and in this case - Holy / Prot is just that, it's a Holy paladin decked out in full Resilience and Stam. I've played one on PTR for 3.2 and it was the biggest joke of a spec - I could take heavy punishment due to almost 10% resilience and 29K HP while critting 10K on a FoL. There's really nothing a warrior can do about it and it's always been the case that we've been stronger against opponents with low to medium armor and not tanks. Doesn't mean the whole rage system is gimped, it just means tanks ... tank us. With BV changes to Prot across the board and Holy/Prot changes next patch we should see a lot less of that.
    Yea, I know ArP helps but that aint much of a choice if you've just dinged 80 (since we are talking about scaling and rage).

    I didnt mean to point out paladins only, It was the same when fighting against DK's, disc priests and frost mages in early Wotlk (again, talking about early expansion). This was even worse in TBC cause it didnt change trough out the entire expansion but atleast Devs were smart enough to realize that a change was needed against shielded targets.
    ROGUES OP LOL
    Have you ever played a rogue? The only reason we are considered OP is because well... you suck.
    No other way to put it.
    No other class in the game has its "OH SHIT" button completely broken.
    No other class in the game WILL be killed in a single stun if they dont have a trinket.
    No other class in the game dies anywhere near as fast as a rogue with its cooldowns gone.
    No other class in the game requires more skill than a rogue.
    No other class in the game is as fun as a rogue, Therefore the majority of rogues who are good, have played a really long time and become good players, nothing will change that.

  3. #43

    Re: One of the biggest warrior issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mothric
    It's a shame you went through all this effort to show us what an idiot you are... particularly when the entire community understands that rage scaling is an issue and causes us to start lower (than almost all other classes) and finish higher (than almost all other classes).
    I'm rarely rage starved. It is not a problem. I should not be able to spam whatever ability I like in every situation. And I still do fine! Who'd thought. Now suck it up. If you rage generation is so goddamn horrible, go gear up like every other class (though they dont suffer from rage starvation, they do suffer from a lot of other things).
    Signature removed. Please read our guidelines. Venara

  4. #44

    Re: One of the biggest warrior issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by XtreO
    I'm rarely rage starved. It is not a problem. I should not be able to spam whatever ability I like in every situation. And I still do fine! Who'd thought. Now suck it up. If you rage generation is so goddamn horrible, go gear up like every other class (though they dont suffer from rage starvation, they do suffer from a lot of other things).
    First of all, you are tank. Second thing, judging by your armory your character wasnt even around before wotlk.
    ROGUES OP LOL
    Have you ever played a rogue? The only reason we are considered OP is because well... you suck.
    No other way to put it.
    No other class in the game has its "OH SHIT" button completely broken.
    No other class in the game WILL be killed in a single stun if they dont have a trinket.
    No other class in the game dies anywhere near as fast as a rogue with its cooldowns gone.
    No other class in the game requires more skill than a rogue.
    No other class in the game is as fun as a rogue, Therefore the majority of rogues who are good, have played a really long time and become good players, nothing will change that.

  5. #45

    Re: One of the biggest warrior issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shimo
    First of all, you are tank. Second thing, judging by your armory your character wasnt even around before wotlk.
    As I have a PvP title (private lol) I guess you'd be smart enough to realise it was made in Classic. I leveled it to 70 and did a very few Kara runs in TBC. This char has however been one step below alt untill WotLK, when I made it my main. But what has this char's history got to do with rage starvation?
    Signature removed. Please read our guidelines. Venara

  6. #46

    Re: One of the biggest warrior issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by XtreO
    As I have a PvP title (private lol) I guess you'd be smart enough to realise it was made in Classic. I leveled it to 70 and did a very few Kara runs in TBC. This char has however been one step below alt untill WotLK, when I made it my main. But what has this char's history got to do with rage starvation?
    '
    Yea, guess i should have checked FoS :P. Anyways, you make it sound like you are uber and everyone else is a failure. Your characters history got alot to do with it, since you wouldnt know anything about the PvP in vanilla, TBC or wotlk. If you wanna discuss about tanking and PvE, find yourself another thread or atleast put some effort in reading the post.
    ROGUES OP LOL
    Have you ever played a rogue? The only reason we are considered OP is because well... you suck.
    No other way to put it.
    No other class in the game has its "OH SHIT" button completely broken.
    No other class in the game WILL be killed in a single stun if they dont have a trinket.
    No other class in the game dies anywhere near as fast as a rogue with its cooldowns gone.
    No other class in the game requires more skill than a rogue.
    No other class in the game is as fun as a rogue, Therefore the majority of rogues who are good, have played a really long time and become good players, nothing will change that.

  7. #47

    Re: One of the biggest warrior issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkis2001
    There is a Warrior in my guild who continually tops the DPS meters on many encounters in our raiding easily pulling 5k. He's really the only DPS Warrior in the guild (which is odd because we're a huge guild) and beats all other classes. Granted it may be really close on some fights but he's amazing.

    I'm not saying Warriors are perfect but this is one example of a great player who knows what he's doing. =D
    And these people would do very well in any guild, and probably as any character. The point is equally skilled and geared, warriors are a little behind. I do more than 5k on almost all fights as well, actually between 6-7k on a stationary fight such as General Lootbag. However, the point is that even on that fight...I'm not the top. Rogues doing 1k more, Blood dks doing more than me consistently, feral druids topping charts when they don't have to keep mangle up cause I'm there. I'm not saying I'd be in danger of losing a raid spot anytime soon, but that doesn't mean we're on the same level as a number of other characters, and we're definitly not scaling out of control compared to the other hybrids.

    Mothric:
    Here's the point, as we reach an infinite rage setting in pve...we scale exponentially...cause we increase the damage of our attacks and our rage generation increases allow us to attack more often with harder hitting attacks. This levels off however dramatically when all extra rage does for us is allows us to put a couple more HS's in per minute. We now scale with our weapon damage only...increasing the damage of our attacks, as we already are making use of every GCD.

    I'm not making this up...seriously. We scale very well going form blue to purple gear...more accurately its scaling as we reach certain levels of hit/exp/and crit. Like 3k raid dps in blues to suddenly 5k dps in purples. But going from naxx gear to Uld gear is a far less net gain...more in line with everyone else.
    When you shoop da whoop, you feel powerful and don't want to lose it, and then a guy in plate armor comes and turns your woop against the shoop, hence, making you got laz0red.

    Guild No Quarter - www.nqguild.org

  8. #48

    Re: One of the biggest warrior PvP issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    ah mah gawd swifty said it so it must be true!!
    If the Burning Legion is such a problem, why not just throw water on them? Then they'll just be a Legion
    Quote Originally Posted by Vongimi View Post
    What is wrong with having a character show up again? Some people are so dumb and will hate on anything blizzard does. Seriously, if you hate it so much that you cant see straight when they show a character a 2nd time, then you should just quit. Also, never read a book. Ever. You will be mad.

  9. #49

    Re: One of the biggest warrior PvP issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andlát
    ah mah gawd swifty said it so it must be true!!
    No, of course not. But Id be willing to bet hes better than 95% of the warriors in the game today and knows a hell of a lot more about the game mechanics. Troll somewhere else.
    Definition of useless -

    Q. Any plans for an untalented spell to help warlocks deal with stuns?
    A. Possibly. It’s also possible we may take a look at stuns in general. But overall stuns will feel less impacting in an environment where players have significantly more health than they do today.

  10. #50

    Re: One of the biggest warrior PvP issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    If you try to normalize rage, the guys currently in top end/BiS gear will complain because it will be a nerf (assuming their rage is no longer infinite), so there's a lot of resistance to it. It makes sense but still gonna get a lot of warriors top end crying.

    if rage were normalized warriors could be balanced much more quickly rather than the OP/nerf/balanced/OP cycle we currently go through, but alas hasn't happened yet

  11. #51

    Re: One of the biggest warrior PvP issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    When it comes to normalizing rage, you run into some bumps.

    Say when you hit with a weapon you get x rage, a fixed rate based off of a formula. Rage is no longer gained through taking damage, instead based entirely off of white hits, then stacking haste will put rage through the roof, and tanks will be making a great deal of rage even when not being hit. However for arms warrior, ArmPen and Str and Crit lose ESP rating and haste will become a top priority, even for fury.

    If you make it so rage is only gained from damage, dps will run into a problem.

    Now if you base it off of white damage and x is a base value percentage of damage done turned into rage, with no rage from being hit, then tanks will once again run into problems as they do little white damage netting them little rage.

    Also being stunned will cause problems, if you're stunned as a warrior (say a rogue), and once they're done with cheapshot and kidney shot, then they disarm you, basically you've never gotten a chance to generate any rage, in effect shutting down the warrior for a longer period of time because beyond weak punches he can't hurt you.
    Once you get your weapon back you'll start doing damage again, sure, but you run into resil, so if rage is based off a percentage of damage done, at lower brackets, (most people even in low brackets are stacking resil, my priest partner was at 900 before our first match), warriors will suffer dramatically compared to other classes as we will do weak white damage and can't start using big attacks for a period of time.

    It's not an easy problem to solve imo.
    Kick me, your limping. Stab me, your bleeding.

  12. #52

    Re: One of the biggest warrior PvP issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    warriors have their problems, but they shined in S4..... Skillherald anyone?

  13. #53

    Re: One of the biggest warrior PvP issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by battosi08
    warriors have their problems, but they shined in S4..... Skillherald anyone?
    Wannabe Moderator ;D
    When you shoop da whoop, you feel powerful and don't want to lose it, and then a guy in plate armor comes and turns your woop against the shoop, hence, making you got laz0red.

    Guild No Quarter - www.nqguild.org

  14. #54

    Re: One of the biggest warrior issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenarius
    Like they are suposed to fix vanish for rogues since...forever?
    There is this thing called latency. From a server side point of view, vanish already works properly. The problem comes from the time it takes input from the client to reach the server and back. There is no way to fix that that doesn't involve substantially buffing vanish and making it unbreakable for a certain amount of time.
    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hatred, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/trashcan.jpg
    http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...s/carville.jpe

    For once, Carville was a man ahead of his time.

  15. #55

    Re: One of the biggest warrior issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigercat
    There is this thing called latency. From a server side point of view, vanish already works properly. The problem comes from the time it takes input from the client to reach the server and back. There is no way to fix that that doesn't involve substantially buffing vanish and making it unbreakable for a certain amount of time.
    ^^
    The most intelligent response I have ever read on here. Also, incredibly accurate
    Definition of useless -

    Q. Any plans for an untalented spell to help warlocks deal with stuns?
    A. Possibly. It’s also possible we may take a look at stuns in general. But overall stuns will feel less impacting in an environment where players have significantly more health than they do today.

  16. #56

    Re: One of the biggest warrior issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Battousai
    And these people would do very well in any guild, and probably as any character. The point is equally skilled and geared, warriors are a little behind. I do more than 5k on almost all fights as well, actually between 6-7k on a stationary fight such as General Lootbag. However, the point is that even on that fight...I'm not the top. Rogues doing 1k more, Blood dks doing more than me consistently, feral druids topping charts when they don't have to keep mangle up cause I'm there. I'm not saying I'd be in danger of losing a raid spot anytime soon, but that doesn't mean we're on the same level as a number of other characters, and we're definitly not scaling out of control compared to the other hybrids.
    One big issue that really doesn't seem balanced though; is that those rogues(In My guild for example) doing 1-2 k More than us(If I manage to break 6300, they're doing 8000 something, Hunters likewise) is that a good 75 % if not 85 % of their damage comes from auto attacking with poisons. Rogues scale incredibly well with Haste Buffs(Slice and Dice, Icy Talons, BL) and mostly all they have to do is keep Rupture up with Slice and Dice, and bingo, 8000 dps =/. While im trying to mash Bloodthirst more, and q up more Heroics. Rogue Main Hand, 2.8 with around 178 Dps, My main hand with 222 Dps. On some fights, because of Totc. They crit substantialy higher than me, with a faster weapon. I recall Northrend Beasts for Example, when Icehwl Stuns himself. I always try to align my CD"s with it without trying to hold them back too much but my Highest White Swing as Fury was around 8500-9000. Our rogue, Hit up to 11000 lol. I mean, I don't really see how I'm expected to keep up with that. Or on regular Fights Hunters Chimera Shot's criting for around 13000. Highest I've seen a regular BT was like 7000 or so, without CD's. There's a difference in CD true, But it adds up well at the end of the fight. Chimera isn't also Hunter's highest damaging ability, Auto shots are high up there, with Steady's.

  17. #57

    Re: One of the biggest warrior PvP issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Coming from a PvP pov rage is a problem getting started however from a PvE pov we're always hitting something and gaining rage. It's not that rage is hard generate, it's all management and PvP takes away the ability to manage rage when a frost mage doesn't let you hit them (solely used as example). Granted you gain rage form inc damage, but that alone is not enough for PvP when you're being kited and abilities take rage in chunks of 15 and 30. 1 of 2 things will happen...rage will be fixed for PvP and in return take away the good source of inc rage for PvE putting dps warriors a little behind, or it simply won't change and some other solution will be given...maybe

  18. #58

    Re: One of the biggest warrior PvP issue, pointed out by Swifty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxxumus
    To be correct, BOTH warriors and DK"s are both considered HYBRIDS as well, only the Rogue is the true pure melee class of the 3.
    Yep cause DKs and Wars dont tank in melee range

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •