Why does melee pushback not exist?

[sicness]

Leave them alone? Why would you do that? All the points you guys are making has NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM BEING RANGED.
It's abilities they happen to have, because it balances out other aspects as well, like low armor, etc.
The fact that their attacks are ranged, in itself is no advantage in this game at all anymore. Want to see what I mean? Go back to the 19 twink bracket and see how the game plays out
vs level 80. With not everyone having 100 gap closers there actually is an advantage in being ranged and... *gasp* not all classes have to be balanced against each other, people have to use strats, like a rogue stealthing onto the hunters etc.
I guess I'm the only one here that thinks a hunter should flat out beat a melee class starting from a large range. Think about combat dynamics. If you had an army over 100 meters away with no archers vs an army with archers you would be at an disadvantage, in wow, it makes no difference, it's almost silly, you could replace those archers with melee and have the same result.

You can't even begin to try to relate this game to any real world situations, and anyone who seriously tries to is just being silly.

[Nd]

Did you seriously just compare a melee hit, even on cloth. To say for example a frostbolt?
Are you for real. Thats not even remotly close damage wise.
I personally have 40% BASE arp and I wouldn't get close to the damage dealt by spells for that exact reason.

The armor ignore part of spells is literally an undeniable advantage. It does, and WILL do more damage in EVERY case than a melee attack. Why do you think Deathknights hit so hard? because it's magic damage from their special strikes. (AKA Scourge Strike, Frost Strike)

Not to mention suggesting Armour doesnt matter unless it's a prot target you're attacking.
Clearly you've never attacked something like a Deathknight in the arena as Melee.
Especially in frost presence, it's like hitting a brick wall with a spoon. Even with a crapton of Arp.

Again, armour ignore has nothing to do with it being RANGED. It just happens to be armour ignore. Put it on a melee ability it would do the same thing. The people in this thread are just dense. It's not a critique on ranged classes, it's a critique the the fact that RANGED has no advantage.

[DrJones]

Well that's real useful.

I was trying to point out, that even though now melees seem to be op: If you give casters the range advantage again, it will be the complete opposite and not magically balanced. But maybe that was to hard to understand.
If there was no intended sarcasm, I apologize.

[Crimsonak]

Again, armour ignore has nothing to do with it being RANGED. It just happens to be armour ignore. Put it on a melee ability it would do the same thing. The people in this thread are just dense. It's not a critique on ranged classes, it's a critique the the fact that RANGED has no advantage.

There is a melee abilty with it, they're called scourge strike and frost strike and guess what they're the only two abilities in the game from a melee that can hit as hard as they do on any target. I was asked to list an advantage ranged classes have.
The fact you not only do high damage to every target, but also consistant damage to every target. Is an advantage.

[Nd]

There is a melee abilty with it, they're called scourge strike and frost strike and guess what they're the only two abilities in the game from a melee that can hit as hard as they do on any target. I was asked to list an advantage ranged classes have.
The fact you not only do high damage to every target, but also consistant damage to every target. Is an advantage.

Again, this has nothing to do with being at ranged. I didn't ask for the ranged class' advantage, i asked for the advantage for being at range.

[Nd]

You can't even begin to try to relate this game to any real world situations, and anyone who seriously tries to is just being silly.

I'm not talking about realism, I'm just talking about things making sense. In a world, where someone could charge someone , at a large distance, who has a gun pointed at you, yet
still come out on equal footing... why would there be ranged weapons in the first place? It makes no sense at all.

[loftus]

Again, this has nothing to do with being at ranged. I didn't ask for the ranged class' advantage, i asked for the advantage for being at range.

i really dont get what you are trying to say?

the advantage of being at ranged is the fact you dont get hit with melee strikes?

[sicness]

Again, this has nothing to do with being at ranged. I didn't ask for the ranged class' advantage, i asked for the advantage for being at range.

The advantage of being at range? How about the fact that a melee can't do serious damage to you while you are not hindered by an as significant minimal range mechanic.

[Nd]

i really dont get what you are trying to say?

the advantage of being at ranged is the fact you dont get hit with melee strikes?

Except that's not true since every melee class closes the distance in 1 button press. Thanks for playing.

[sicness]

I'm not talking about realism, I'm just talking about things making sense. In a world, where someone could charge someone , at a large distance, who has a gun pointed at you, yet
still come out on equal footing... why would there be ranged weapons in the first place? It makes no sense at all.

And that's using real world to try and explain a video game... therein you not making sense...

[Nd]

And that's using real world to try and explain a video game... therein you not making sense...

Do you not understand the difference between real world and logic?

I can just imagine the apprentice hunter asking the master hunter what's good about ranged attacks.
The response would be "You can attack melee people at ranged and they can't reach you! Except if they happen to be warriors, druids, deathknights or rogues.. in which case they can charge up a fucking ledge floating in the air, pull you down from the ledge or vanish and reappear on the ledge all almost as fast as you can set up a shot. So really you'll be spending most of your time setting up to do damage but in the end they will just warp to you every time you do"
To which I'm sure the response would be: "well fucketh that shit"

a few years later all magic users besides healers , and all hunters suddenly disappear from Azeroth

[sicness]

Do you not understand the difference between real world and logic?

Using your real world logic in a video game... and you're serious?

[loftus]

Except that's not true since every melee class closes the distance in 1 button press. Thanks for playing.

your question was what is the advantage of being at range.

i told you.

if your question was 'how are ranged classes useful when melee classes can close the distance much easier than before?'

then i might have answered differently.

stop trying to be funny and actually discuss what you have came here to discuss, you said yourself

'i guess im the only one who thinks a hunter should flatout beat a melee class from large range.'

why would people EVER play melee? in the real world people wouldnt take 15-20 shots before they die either, but it has to happen to make the game work. its game design.

a rogue has sprint, which is on a 2 minute cooldown. you have to get away once then you are at range again.

[gobtol]

Except that's not true since every melee class closes the distance in 1 button press. Thanks for playing.

I must have missed the patch notes that gave ret pallys and enhancement shamans an intercept-type ability.

[Nd]

your question was what is the advantage of being at range.

i told you.

if your question was 'how are ranged classes useful when melee classes can close the distance much easier than before?'

then i might have answered differently.

stop trying to be funny and actually discuss what you have came here to discuss, you said yourself

'i guess im the only one who thinks a hunter should flatout beat a melee class from large range.'

why would people EVER play melee? in the real world people wouldnt take 15-20 shots before they die either, but it has to happen to make the game work. its game design.

a rogue has sprint, which is on a 2 minute cooldown. you have to get away once then you are at range again.

Because melee have a huge advantage close up, just like in any army. It's called LOS, It's called roles. I guess you prefer everyone be the same though huh?

[DrJones]

If real world logic is brought up, threads always tend to get better. Especially if talking about game balance.

Casters (or ranged in general) should maybe get a little push in the right direction (buff), but you can't just run around claiming being ranged in general is just useless.
If you don't do it right you will trade one imbalance against two others.

[Nd]

I must have missed the patch notes that gave ret pallys and enhancement shamans an intercept-type ability.

Frost shock will snare you, now with the increased range and the bonus for gloves you're almost assured to be in range. Paladins don't but again, I was never talking about
ranged classes vs non-ranged classes. I was talking about ranged vs non-ranged in general. The only reason gap closers exist in wow is due to poor game design in general anyway.

[Deleted]

Ranged and casters have huge nukes that deserve some downsides. Regular ranged attacks usually hit harder than most melee crits, plus magic completely ignores armor. And they are, well, ranged. You can start raining truckloads of shit on people when they are still 40 yards away, and still think it's unfair if they get a chance to score a couple of hits before getting snared, feared, incapasitated, knocked back or stunned.

[loftus]

Because melee have a huge advantage close up, just like in any army. It's called LOS, It's called roles. I guess you prefer everyone be the same though huh?

realise that everyone who has seen this thread since you first posted has been totally baffled by your logic.

im finding it very difficult to discuss it with you when i dont get what points you are even trying to make in the first place.

if you wish to be accurate, 'like an army' etc. then just thing of rome.

The gladiators and the collisieum were the closest thing history has had to arenas. People went in there with swords and shields etc. because it was up close combat, an archer wouldnt have the time to ready his bow before he is cut to pieces.

The discussion is about arena combat, so you trying to link it with real life is very strange. casters have tons of tools to create a gap, or defend themselves, not to mention the fact they can all do damage up close in melee, while melee classes can not use their abilities at range.

EDIT: read what gahmuret put. They said exactly what i feel but worded it a million times better.

[Nd]

realise that everyone who has seen this thread since you first posted has been totally baffled by your logic.

im finding it very difficult to discuss it with you when i dont get what points you are even trying to make in the first place.

if you wish to be accurate, 'like an army' etc. then just thing of rome.

The gladiators and the collisieum were the closest thing history has had to arenas. People went in there with swords and shields etc. because it was up close combat, an archer wouldnt have the time to ready his bow before he is cut to pieces.

The discussion is about arena combat, so you trying to link it with real life is very strange. casters have tons of tools to create a gap, or defend themselves, not to mention the fact they can all do damage up close in melee, while melee classes can not use their abilities at range.

EDIT: read what gahmuret put. They said exactly what i feel but worded it a million times better.

We are talking about arena, but I was extending it to pvp in general. You're crazy if you think that from 50-60 meters away a trained archer would not have an advantage over melee (unless they had a shield of course - mind you the only class-specs that DO you use a shield are ironically healers). There is a reason why in Rome they didn't put people with nothing but a two handed sword vs a guy with a bow in the arena, it'd be a short match.