Elem PvE damage a bit low?

[Amana]

I'm an elemental shaman in T8.5, good gear etc, and I rarely get more than 5500dps in fight, putting me at the end of the dps charts on most fights (my yesterday raid exemple: Algalon 25), I feel like my LvB are weak: they almost never tend to get more than 12k damage when almost all my LB are 10k+ with 3200+sp.
I know, T9 will give LvB a big buff, though it feels a bit weak right now how short is the difference in damage between LB and LvB compared to what it was in T7 (I know, 4p T7/Glyph of Lava helped, though I feel like it's not just that which changed). Any shaman feeling the same ?

BTW my armo: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...n+Tor&n=Eilela
(gems are epic now, armory is just not up to date)

[Amana]

I speak from mostly ignorance here, but I can't help but wonder if Blizzard created Elemental Shamans in such a way that, while their own personal DPS is not outstandingly high, their presence increases the Raid's DPS significantly due to such buffs as Totem of Wrath and Elemental Oath. In essence, they were created primarily as a utility role.

That's why I played a Shadowpriest in TBC, and everything changed in LK where the non-pure dps class/spec got as high as pure dps. But here in the elem case, the dps looks definitely lower than for the others.
I love my role, I love buffing the raid, as I loved being the ill black duck everyone keeps around in raid because of all he can give even if its dps sucks so much in TBC as a SP.

[Terminated]

Scaling was an issue mentioned early in Wotlk and never fully addressed.

I always feel Ele Shaman were never meant for 25 men high end raiding and it well oiled mechanics where all damage dealers knows its role and share the same max dps goal. Smaller raid, where buffs are missing, where one player can still make the difference, where things can be fixed if something goes wrong, that is where we shine.

[Koffie]

Only suggestion I can give is get a program called Rawr. Its a simulator with gearoptions, gemming and when you set up the correct raidsetup (moonkin aura wisdom etc) of a typical raid it is suggestion when I do it on your chat to go for haste and spellpower gemming. Would suggest to have a look. Can find it with all searchprograms like google etc. Just look at Rawr as search

[Tereell]

LOL PVE ele shamans do massive dmg maybe its just a L2play issue.

[GDMANYAK]

U are way OVER hit cap, u need only 263 and Haste > sd> crit and u socket SD+ crit gems, also u have choosed bad places for blue(meta activation) gems chest and legs would be better then neck and boots. Try to reach 630-650 haste (i mean this number from items) so u will have smooth rotations with 6 Lbs inbetween Lavas. Try to get rid off mp5 items, those are realy useless.

LOL PVE ele shamans do massive dmg maybe its just a L2play issue.

Or may be this. No offence.

[ihaz]

im certainly sure that there was stealth nerf to ele shammy. before 3.2 i could pull 5.5k dps with naxx25 gear(and even didnt have all BiS) and before patch i transferred my shaman to PTR and saw this difference - in 3.1 i could kill every mob when farming some stuff/doing dailies with just LvB+1xLB on PTR i needed something like LvB+2-3xLB ?? in 3.2 about 4k dps with the same gear -.-

[Orodben]

LvB dmg was nerved a lot. I am thinking of changing my rotation to fs -> lb until fs has to be recast.

The only nice thing with LvB is the 100% crit, but lb crits do more damage.

You can't say ele dmg is low over all, for example at Hodir we can compare to sp/wl/(bad)mage

It depends much on the fight mechanics.

[Deleted]

LOL PVE ele shamans do massive dmg maybe its just a L2play issue.

Maybe your guild sucks and all your DPS except for the ele need to L2play. (I'd put my money on that)

Only suggestion I can give is get a program called Rawr. Its a simulator with gearoptions, gemming and when you set up the correct raidsetup (moonkin aura wisdom etc) of a typical raid it is suggestion when I do it on your chat to go for haste and spellpower gemming. Would suggest to have a look. Can find it with all searchprograms like google etc.

Rawr won't help good Elementals that much... gearing isn't hard and getting the hang of our priority list is easy, too.
But that won't help much, as we're still a tad behind other DPS. (at least when using ToW)

[Muezick]

I'm an elemental shaman in T8.5, good gear etc, and I rarely get more than 5500dps in fight, putting me at the end of the dps charts on most fights (my yesterday raid exemple: Algalon 25), I feel like my LvB are weak: they almost never tend to get more than 12k damage when almost all my LB are 10k+ with 3200+sp.
I know, T9 will give LvB a big buff, though it feels a bit weak right now how short is the difference in damage between LB and LvB compared to what it was in T7 (I know, 4p T7/Glyph of Lava helped, though I feel like it's not just that which changed). Any shaman feeling the same ?

BTW my armo: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...n+Tor&n=Eilela
(gems are epic now, armory is just not up to date)

Factor in the dps increase we give to every single caster dps in the raid and I'd say our dps is outstandingly higher than most pure dps classes :P

We're a Utility class, I mean, if they factored our dps -without- our buffs, where would be with them? We keep 75% of caster dps buffs in our pocket, we'd be overpowered in every way if our dps was factored without totem of wrath and company.

I think in the beggining of wrath before lava burst was nerfed, it was hitting for 14-16k by ele shamans in bis gear, which is over powered in a solo situation. and by solo situations, I mean pvp....so yes, our dps is broken because of pvp.



Should it be higher?

yes, but by maybe only 10 or 15%. But again, I wouldn't expect this kind of increase to come in the form of a lava burst buff, because of the problems associated with lava burst, By the end of Wrath if it had been allowed to stay as it was it would've eventually been hitting people for 20k, in combination with elemental mastery, that's a one-shot kill, guaranteed at 36 yards when you think about the damage from flame shock, which is unacceptable, especially for arena.

What I'd rather see is a new spell to add to our rotation. Or a talent. Or something. Granted I did switch jobs to an Ele shaman originally due to the simplicity of the class compared to other dps classes in this age. What ele shaman are missing is essentially another level of complexity. They're just to simple right now, and buffing their dps in any way would mean giving fire to children so-to-speak, it's hard to make it stonger without making it stupid.(See 16k lava bursts)

I'd like to see one of our mandatory talents increase our spell haste by a certain % of our spirit, which would also greatly open up our gearing options. But there isn't any mail with spirit on it, so that wont work for this expansion, maybe next time around.

[Gestopft]

I speak from mostly ignorance here, but I can't help but wonder if Blizzard created Elemental Shamans in such a way that, while their own personal DPS is not outstandingly high, their presence increases the Raid's DPS significantly due to such buffs as Totem of Wrath and Elemental Oath. In essence, they were created primarily as a utility role.

I might not like or completely agree with that statement, but it does hit the reason pretty accurately. Elemental brings so many excellent buffs (280 SP, 8% crit, 5% Haste, heroism/lust, armor or agi/str, mana regen etc.) that they don't scale as well in raids as other classes that don't bring as many buffs. And some other major buffs such as kings and motw are wonderful for other classes but hardly do anything for elemental. Mana efficiency is so good that when I have kings or motw, my first thought is not "oh good, more mana" it is "oh good, more hp so I'm not so squishy"

In addition to not scaling as well with raid buffs, elementals don't have much internal scaling (which is why we keep getting buffed, such as the lightning overload buff). Elemental damage doesn't scale with int or spirit at all like some casters, crit scaling is poor since any additional crit is useless for LvB, haste scaling is ok, but you run into timing problems with LvB and FS refreshes, so our only good stat for scaling is SP, which is less than other classes get.

It's not all you. However, if you can find a way to get some more haste, perhaps by losing a bit of crit, that may help smooth out your rotation

[Grisan]

Shamans are (besides Paladins) the best support class in the game. You bring tons of useful totems (resistance auras, mana-reg, spellpower, cleansing, fear-protection) and of course Heroism/Bloodlust.
In elemental spec you a provide a significant spellpower and and spell crit buff to every caster.

These utility buffs makes you a very desired class for every raid. Many of these buffs can be provided by other classes in a 25 man raid, but in a 10 man raid a shaman is worth twice as much as any other class (besides paladin).

You are also a hybrid class that can switch between melee/caster/healer with a click of a button. If you would do as much damage as mages/warlock/rogues why would anybody bother to bring these classes that have little to no utility and can't witch to heal if necessary. So it is only fair if your dps is 10% lower than pure dps classes.

I play a mage and a moonkin in a casual raiding guild. We cleared Ulduar but don't do hardmodes. 5500-6000 dps is what our mages and warlocks do normally (in non-gimmick fights).

Your equipment is good but only about the same level as my gear. So I think 5500 dps is very good for a hybrid class. Given the fact that your guild seems to have cleared several hardmodes your gear is probably a bit behind that of your guildmates. You are also missing ring enchants and are still not using epics gems. With a few upgrades you will get higher on the meters, but you won't and shouldn't be at the top.

[Yon]

It's true that Blizzard keeps hybrid dps down a notch or two below the pures, but it has nothing to do with the number of buffs you bring to the table. Consider shadowpriests who are doing similar dps to elemental shamans while only bringing a 3% spellhit buff in addition to replenishment which half the classes have.

There are no more utility classes, as stated in blue posts if you can be arsed to find them, just hybrids and pures, and in many cases the pures bring more raid buffs than some hybrids so there's no correlation there.

[Deleted]

I love this thread, I play in a very casual guild on Darkspear. I play a Elemental Shaman, and I hear people talking about their dps got lowered since the patch, mine actually got increased with about 600 dps.

I dont got the greatest gear, and compared to you guys I do really bad dps, but in my guild I'm always in the top 2 dps. Only out dps'ed by a retripaladin. But ofcourse we're only doing Naxx, and failry started on Ulduar10.

But how come my dps have increased and yours lowered as it seems? Sorry if I totally misundertood the meaning.

[Amana]

U are way OVER hit cap, u need only 263 and Haste > sd> crit and u socket SD+ crit gems, also u have choosed bad places for blue(meta activation) gems chest and legs would be better then neck and boots. Try to reach 630-650 haste (i mean this number from items) so u will have smooth rotations with 6 Lbs inbetween Lavas. Try to get rid off mp5 items, those are realy useless.Or may be this. No offence.

I'm overcapped on Armory, usually I remove the 71 hit trinket to use a 111sp instead (this 344 hit is for getting the 342 hard cap when no SP are in, which happens in r10).
Why geming chest ? It has yellow/blue sockets, though for legs I could argue as it's red/blue sockets.
Got a mp5 ring, best I could find (I was heal before, though I became more useful to my raid as elem).
I used to be in the Top 3 dps of my old guild, but now that I migrated and got in a very challenging PvE guild, I was warned "you won't be in top 3 anymore", and it is indeed. I know rotation, I know what spell to use, hell I wouldn't have been one of the best dps in my old guild if I hadn't, though now that everyone around me knows what to do I just don't scale as much as them.

[Grisan]

There are no more utility classes...

Please compare the utility a rogue brings to the raid with a shaman and tell if you still think your statement is true.

[Desk]

No other class can bring near, as crucial a buff, than an elemental shaman. Nor do ele shamans benefit from any other class' buff more than their own. Hands down, most crucial buffs in a raid by far.

[Rosh]

Ive not noticed any decrease, but a bit of a dps increase as some others are mentioning here..

[Antillar]

As someone who plays a 'pure' dps class I think ele shaman are in a great place. A geared shaman can easily do DPS on par with hunters and mages as well as bringing necessary buffs to the raid.

[Carbunkle]

Mate, I see your problem.
You are only gemming spell power. You should be going with some haste also (and dont nag on me, I have also forgotten to do that on my shaman)
But still, gem some extra haste and you can raise your dps little higher and also, its not always you have something that can give you extra hit on bosses so my advice is also to hit the 17% hit cap on elemental shamans