Question about Gems

[tonrough]

I'm having a hard time finding the reasoning for certain gem choices on EJ. Hoping someone on here can help. Read a lot of their posts but nothing was stated specifically since epic gems came out.

Instead of using 40ap I am seeing 20ap 10 crit being used for yellow slots just to get a 6agi socket bonus. Does the 20crit + crit from the 6 agi make the AP loss worth it. I've been stuck with a few Exp gems in these slots due to needing to make my cap, but once I get an upgrade soon, I will have those gem slots free and wanting to know which gems to plan for. I trust EJ, just getting confused on gemming for only a 4-8agi gain.

[Claym]

It's all determined by EP Stat Weights. Even at Naxx25 levels the weights for the three stats in questions were:
AP - 1
Crit - 1.7
Agi - 1.7

What does this mean?

a 40 AP gem is worth 40 * 1 = 40 stat points.

a 20 AP + 10 crit rating gem is worth 20 * 1 + 10 * 1.7 = 37 stat points. BUT agi is worth 1.7 points each and you gained 6 AGI for matching the socket. That means it's 37 + 1.7*6 = 47.2.

The 20 AP + 10 crit gem is worth 47.2 stat points while the 40 AP gem is worth 40. This makes the 20 AP + 10 crit gem a bigger DPS gain. Simple math.

You should realize though, that you MUST be in the appropriate endgame gear for the values to mean anything to you. In general, you should compute the EP values for your character sot hey are tailored to your gear. Why? Because let's say your shaman is more Hit or expertise deficient. Those stats would be weighted higher than someone already at the optimal level which are what EJ values usually assume.

[Deleted]

SIGH.

Have you read the FAQ. Enhancement Shaman gear is so very variable that no one can give you a specific answer you need to try out the options for yourself using the simulators provided. This is ALWAYS the advice on EJ forums you can't possibly have missed it.

Where did you see a 20ap 10 crit gem suggested? It wasn't for your exact gear setup was it? No! My guess is that it was on the BiS discussions.

However unless you have identical gear why does the choice on that particular combo matter to you? It is not likely to give the same result on YOUR gear so PLEASE don't think that you should apply something from one gear set to your gear set it DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.

If you are a novice at this get Rawr and load up your character from the armoury its then very very very simply to click a button and change a gem and see what the change of dps is. In fact if you can change a gem in game you can change a gem in Rawr its almost an identical process.

This way you can play around with the gems on YOUR gear and confirm if what works for someone else's gear actually applies to your gear. Unfortunately too often what works on one gear set doesn't work on another and so its very foolish to rely on random suggestions like this without having tested it on your own setup.

[Deleted]

It's all determined by EP Stat Weights. Even at Naxx25 levels the weights for the three stats in questions were:
AP - 1
Crit - 1.7
Agi - 1.7

What does this mean?

a 40 AP gem is worth 40 * 1 = 40 stat points.

a 20 AP + 10 crit rating gem is worth 20 * 1 + 10 * 1.7 = 37 stat points. BUT agi is worth 1.7 points each and you gained 6 AGI for matching the socket. That means it's 37 + 1.7*6 = 47.2.

The 20 AP + 10 crit gem is worth 47.2 stat points while the 40 AP gem is worth 40. This makes the 20 AP + 10 crit gem a bigger DPS gain. Simple math.

You should realize though, that you MUST be in the appropriate endgame gear for the values to mean anything to you. In general, you should compute the EP values for your character sot hey are tailored to your gear. Why? Because let's say your shaman is more Hit or expertise deficient. Those stats would be weighted higher than someone already at the optimal level which are what EJ values usually assume.

The other thing the OP has to realise as you rightly point out is that using someone else's EP values is just plain daft, he may as well make up random numbers for EP values as use some other figures.

Very very early in the theorycrafting for WotLK we realised that the luxury of a generic set of EP values that could be relied on had died and that everyone would need to check their stats and generate personal EP values for themselves to be sure they were correctly optimising their gear.

[tonrough]

my reasoning for the post wasn't to see exactly what i should do, I was just curious as to why they might have been doing that for that specific loot setup. And yes it was BiS list. I just wanted to see why they might choose those gem choices for the socket bonus over more AP etc. So when I get to a similar choice in gemming I can have some ideas. Im not gonna cookie cut exactly what they say, but with epic gems being so new, just getting all the info I can. Both replies were very helpful and thanks for responding so quickly, much appreciated. I will definitely test out gem choices on my own gear. Thanks again