when is it ok to go for ArP?

[FangoTehmango]

I'm sure someone.... or a lot of someones have asked this before, but I personally have never been able to find a straight answer.

From what I know, to do super arms dps one has to have grim toll, which gives close to 50% ArP, then another 10 from battle stance, but that leaves a little foggy area for me. Out of the remaining 40%, how much of it should come from gear/gems/food? is there a certain threshold I should reach from gear alone before gemming?

And before someone tells me to go fury, I've had nothing but polearms drop for me since 80, so i would be downgrading to tournament 2handers if I did.

Any positive help would be greatly apreciated.

[neck deep]

do you have any armor pen from gear at all? link armory if possible

[FangoTehmango]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ka&n=Fangoroth

I'm also just a couple heroics away from an 8.5 chest, and i've been farming Heroic ToC for Edge of Ruin

[LawnGnome12]

Basically everything I have read and played with on a spreadsheet puts ArP ahead of strength at certain points.

I have been extremely unlucky and have neither a grim toll nor a runestone, so I have gemmed ArP as fury. With a grim toll, the proc will give out slightly less than 50% (it's like 49.46% or something like that), so you want to gem until you get to ~50% including battle stance. Gear should get you close to 30ish%, so you should really only need to gem/food the remaining 10%. Be careful not to go over 50% though, otherwise you will waste ArP when the trinket procs, so gem strength once you hit that point.

[FangoTehmango]

I also have

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47176
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47565
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47494

Just not sure when using them is advised

And as I was typing this I got another little helpful nugget of help. thanks LawnGnome

Anything people can tell me at all is still greatly appreciated though

Edit: Forgot I sold the chest, but i'll have an 8.5 one soon anyway

[Ticktac]

I don't know the numbers off hand, but don't forget about sunder and FF they are armor reductions as well and I believe add into that final number.

[LawnGnome12]

Not exactly. Sunder reduces armor by 520 per sunder (2600 total). ArP comes into play after that. So, say a boss has 10000 armor. After sunders are applied, the boss now has 7400 armor. Then your ArP kicks in. You reduce X percent of the 7400.

[orderschvank]

Not exactly. Sunder reduces armor by 520 per sunder (2600 total). ArP comes into play after that. So, say a boss has 10000 armor. After sunders are applied, the boss now has 7400 armor. Then your ArP kicks in. You reduce X percent of the 7400.

where have u been, sunder armor takes away 20% armor now, no matter if the target is wearing cloth or plate...

[Devro]

At about 600 ArP rating, adding ArP has more marginal benefit than adding AP. As your ArP gets higher above 600 rating, the marginal benefit becomes greater and greater, meaning ArP gets better and better as you get more.

Once you get to this point, start gemming for ArP over Strength, as your DPS will go up faster.

Also... I'd like to add that I've dropped all Expertise in favor of ArP (now at 64% unbuffed) and I do more damage than with the Expertise, even though I am getting parried and dodged a LOT more, the bigger hits make up for it. I see it in 25 man raids and to a greater extent, in Heroics (because the mob levels are slightly lower). Just make sure your hit is at 8% or higher.

Any food you have that adds ArP or Sunders are all extra bonuses when I have them. Once I get my H ToC boots and fully regem, I'll be over 70% ArP, and that's only with 2 raiding epics. So those that think they couldn't achieve what I have without raiding, it is possible.

Carcinoma
US - Farstriders

[LawnGnome12]

where have u been, sunder armor takes away 20% armor now, no matter if the target is wearing cloth or plate...

Wow...uuuuhhhh....yea, must have been a long day/ not thinking well. I knew that believe it or not, but regardless, my general point is still valid. ArP counts after sunders. It's not additive.

[Ceara]

At about 600 ArP rating, adding ArP has more marginal benefit than adding AP. As your ArP gets higher above 600 rating, the marginal benefit becomes greater and greater, meaning ArP gets better and better as you get more.

Once you get to this point, start gemming for ArP over Strength, as your DPS will go up faster.

Also... I'd like to add that I've dropped all Expertise in favor of ArP (now at 64% unbuffed) and I do more damage than with the Expertise, even though I am getting parried and dodged a LOT more, the bigger hits make up for it. I see it in 25 man raids and to a greater extent, in Heroics (because the mob levels are slightly lower). Just make sure your hit is at 8% or higher.

Any food you have that adds ArP or Sunders are all extra bonuses when I have them. Once I get my H ToC boots and fully regem, I'll be over 70% ArP, and that's only with 2 raiding epics. So those that think they couldn't achieve what I have without raiding, it is possible.

Carcinoma
US - Farstriders

ArPen is a very valuable stat, but I wouldn't drop all Expertise to get it. You'd want to at least be at the soft (Dodge) expertise cap.

[somekindofgod]

1000 is the soft cap for ArP, with 1232 being the hard cap.

I suggest getting upwards of 600 without a GT. If you're lucky enough to get GT, then just hold around 600 if you can. Maintain that and start gemming strength. Dps will go up.

[Devro]

ArPen is a very valuable stat, but I wouldn't drop all Expertise to get it. You'd want to at least be at the soft (Dodge) expertise cap.

I have seen with my own DPS that dropping Expertise for ArP (once you are at 30-35% passive ArP) is much better and my DPS has actually increased substantially as a result of it. Just look at maxdps.com or Landsoul's spreadsheet and you'll see that your DPS increases more even though you are getting dodged/parried without the Expertise.

Of course, if you can't get anything better than what you have, I don't suggest downgrading just to get ArP, but your upgrades should be focused on ArP, Strength, then crit all while having 8% +hit.