rated bg, honor titles, arena points via BG...

[Naposim1337]

as an enhance shammy i LOVE this. This will bring me back to PVP

[Eroginous]

This game is a GEAR BASED game. What this means is that GEAR is what dictates the handicap by which you play. Can players possess a large degree of skill without gear? Sure. Are these players capable of out playing those who have gear? Sure. But this game is not a skill based game. It is a GEAR based game.

Let's say a player in full Furious has a handicap of 0, while a player in full savage has a handicap of 10. This means that in order for a player in full savage to perform at the level of a player in full furious, they have to possess skill + 10. The only way for that player to get to the point of being in full furious and removing his '10 point' handicap is by consistently playing better than at least 51% of his opponents, but ONLY the ones who have a better rating and most likely a lower handicap to begin with.

At the beginning of a season this isn't so bad because everyone is at the same level of gear, and thus there is no handicap. It is as if everyone has a handicap of +0. But as time goes on and these players who have gotten from the point of savage to furious while having a +0 handicap continue to compete against players who have the same handicap, they don't have to possess a higher degree of skill to maintain their success. Everyone who comes in at the point of savage, however, are starting at a +10 handicap and MUST possess higher skill than the majority of their opponents or they will always stay at a handicap.

This system is inherently flawed since it only consistently rewards those who do it first, and anyone who wasn't there to do it first have to work progressively harder than those who were.

There is no argument that a player who possesses the same skill of a 2350 player but has the gear level of a 1300 player will be able to get to 2350 without first increasing their skill to surpass a player who is already at 2350. This has everything to do with gear, and nothing to do with skill.


The average arena player thinks that gear should be a reward only for those who are 'skilled' enough to earn them. Well the reality is that it has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with initial opportunity. The players who got to 2350 first and subsequently earned the 2350 gear, did not have to compete against players who were already in furious gear, and didn't have a handicap working against them.

The new BG system serves to reward players for being dedicated, giving them the ability to remove the handicap without having to be MORE skilled than their opponents to do so. So gear is the reward for time spent, which means that time spent will yield the gear needed to compete at the same level of other people. Skilled players will still have performance to display their skill level, and those who are simply not skilled won't.

What is more important? Having a title and gear level that shows your 'skill' level, or being able to actually perform at your true skill level because there is no handicap?

[meliancill]

ok my comments about this change are as follows


i like the idea of geting raiting threw bgs and i like the way they did it. bgs are not like arena at all. in some battlegroups alliance wins 75% of games and in others the horde win 75% now most are around the 60% area. my battlegroup is about 65% for the horde 35% for the alliance ( acourding to my statistics panel ) if they made it so you lose even half what you gain when you loose / win a bg in groups like mine the alliance would never progress simply because the alliance are outnumbered by about 2:1 and are mostly made up of less skilled and yunger players. so it would go like this ( ill use 10 games with a 10 raiting for win and 5 for lose )


game 1

horde wins - horde gains 10 raiting
alliance lose - alliance loses 5 raiting

horde 10
alliance 0

game 2

horde wins - horde gains 10 raiting
alliance lose- alliance loses 5 raiting

horde 20
alliance 0

game 3

horde wins - horde gains 10 raiting
alliance lose - alliance loses 5 raiting

horde 30
alliance 0

game 4

horde lose - horde loses 5 raiting
alliance wins - alliance gains 10 raiting

horde 25
alliance 10

game 5

horde wins - horde gains 10 raiting
alliance lose - alliance loses 5 raiting

horde 35
alliance 5

game 6

horde wins - horde gains 10 raiting
alliance lose - alliance loses 5 raiting

horde 45
alliance 0

game 7

horde wins - horde gains 10 raiting
alliance lose- alliance loses 5 raiting

horde 55
alliance 0

game 8

horde lose - horde loses 5 raiting
alliance win - alliane gain 10 raiting

horde 50
alliance 10

game 9

horde win - horde gain 10 raiting
alliance lose - alliance loses 5 raiting

horde 60
alliance 5

game 10

horde win - horde gain 10 raiting
alliance lose - alliance loses 5 raiting

horde 70
alliance 0

----------------------------------------------------------

that is a 75% for horde 25% for alliance ratio. some are wors some are a little better but almost no battlegroups are a perfect 50/50 win loss so losing raiting will graitly hinder one side or the other depending on what battlegroup they are in. do you see now why blizz dosnt take raiting away?

@balduvian - did you honestly think they could? they have no way to judge how much a simple person give to the win or loss. they have no way to judge how much you gave. for example. how can they tell that you and 2 other people ran to the alliance GY and distracted them so your flag runer could get away without problems? they cant so they did the most fair thing they could. wich yes means grinding. every mmo has it even wow. so yes arean will still be the ( im 2500 arean raiting so im a god and the 2500 raiting bg player is just a farming noob )... what more did you expect

[dieseledge]

Should have known they can't meassure skill in BG...
Especially when they said you don't lose anything AT ALL when you lose a game but you do win rating when you win one made me sad...

It actually means every retard can get the highest/best items in even a shorter ammount of time then any casual with actual skil. Great, just great. :

About the title's. I won't believe they will be the vanilla titles, and if so, Blizzard will dissapoint TONS of people out there (including Champion Balduvian!) which use their good oldskool title just to show people that they were there, in the good old time of WoW PvP...

I'm hoping for new title's, which is a better option for every possible thinkable scenario...

Um no, not it doesn't. People are making a lot of assumptions without all the information.

In order to participate in rated Battlegrounds, players will be required to join battles as full groups. However these groups do not need to be committed teams as in the Arena system; rather, the group simply needs to have the required amount of players for whichever Battleground they’re entering. As an example, one would need to join the queue as a group for Warsong Gulch with any nine additional players to qualify for a rating.

To repeat a point i made in another thread.

Sorry but rated BGs is going to bring a new type of elitism to WoW far worse than arenas.

Once again, all of you saying this is becoming World of Casualcraft are retarded.

1) They are talking about limiting rated battles to 6 or more a week.

2) You must que as a full group for that BG.

3) They are adding guild levels and talents.

4) There will be guild awards and achievements for pvp.

Get where am I going this? Say hello to it being required for you to either join the top PvP guilds on your server or transfer to a more active one. If not, all you've got is 3v3 or 5v5.

You're going to have a huge influx of new elite guilds concentrating on PvP. Players are not going to see the freedom of gameplay, they were hoping for. This is setup for the WorldofMing crowd with connections.

[meliancill]

Um no, not it doesn't. People are making a lot of assumptions without all the information.


To repeat a point i made in another thread.

Sorry but rated BGs is going to bring a new type of elitism to WoW far worse than arenas.

Once again, all of you saying this is becoming World of Casualcraft are retarded.

1) They are talking about limiting rated battles to 6 or more a week.

2) You must que as a full group for that BG.

3) They are adding guild levels and talents.

4) There will be guild awards and achievements for pvp.

Get we're I'm going? Say hello to it being required for you to either join the top PvP guilds on your server or transfer to a more active one. If not, all you've got is 3v3 or 5v5.

You're going to have a huge influx of new elite guilds concentrating on PvP. Players are not going to see the freedom of gameplay, they were hoping for. This is setup for the WorldofMing crowd with connections.

give me a sorce to the ( you need a full premade group to do raited bgs ) since no blue posts i have read nothing at blizzcon and no posts here have even hinted at anything like this. so please give a sorce when you quote things like this...

[dieseledge]

give me a sorce to the ( you need a full premade group to do raited bgs ) since no blue posts i have read nothing at blizzcon and no posts here have even hinted at anything like this. so please give a sorce when you quote things like this...

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/19377...l-writeup.html

For a second, I was thinking about coming back for the expansion, but thank you Blizzard.

You have completely crushed my desire to return, and I can spend my time on more productive things. First time, I'm happy that a developer has done something I don't like.

[Woony]

I lmao about Arenaplayers crying that scrubs will get the best arenaset.
First, its not known how hard/easy it will be and second IF you are a uber skilled pvper you will own these scrubs in aenas even if they run around in the best set. Or do you need the gear advantage to pwn scrubs?...
The REAL arenaplayers are promoting same-gear-in-arenas-for-everyone since s1 anyway.

[meliancill]

so they are making us do full premades AND limiting the amount of games we can do in a week to around 1 a day? that isnt anywere near equil to arena imo doing that is fairly retarted.........

[dieseledge]

so they are making us do full premades AND limiting the amount of games we can do in a week to around 1 a day? that isnt anywere near equil to arena imo doing that is fairly retarted.........

Oh it gets worse. If you think 5v5 is a dried up pvp bracket, how many pre-made 15 man and 40 man raids do you think there are gonna be in que?

They really did not think this through at all. They need to stop worrying about the top 1% of their playerbase crying over some people gettin 1 or 2 nice weapons.

They need to go back to Season 2. Get rid of the item ratings. All they need to do is require that you win 30% of your games for the week to get arena points. There, people just can't throw their games. Raid drops are significantly improved now (T5 verse S2 anyone?) so the whole "Arena Players get the top pve items just losing 10 games a week" is pretty much invalid now. Elevate the cost of items that don't drop from WG type bosses and lower the cost of the ones that do.

Continue to push for changes that reward BG participation. This really needs to be done for flag watchers, etc. Do the individual rated BGs, not premade required, for arena points according to win/loss. Use an overall participation score for the week to also determine, the amount of points you recieve.

This whole "what takes skill" is completely subjective and a complete waste of time that's only managed to pit groups of their playerbase against each other. It's especially fucking retarded when they have already had to practically shut down an arena bracket because they can't balance it.

[Kimbald]

I wanted to be rewarded for my efforts I put in when joining a bg on my own...

What I get is the certainty that ALL rated bg's will be dominated by pure PvP guild premades.

First I'll need to join a premade to even compete.
Second we'll need to win against regular pvp guild premades.

no matter how hard I myself try, if the group as a whole doesn't win (which is only a slim chance against pvp guild premades as pug), I can forget about being rewarded as an individual.

Not saying premades shouldn't be rewarded, but again the ones doing bg's on their own or in small groups, are being left out.
And those are actually the majority in bg's.

Agreed: most are honor farmers, but there is a large group of players doing bg's on their own. And again they get nothing for their efforts.

It was 'rewards for arena only'.
Now it will become 'rewards for arena and pvp guild premades only'.
Guess what: that's about the same small pool of players...

Why is it so hard to come up with a way of rewarding for PERSONAL effort in bg's?
Instead of doing it the simpletons way of 'make a team and win or no reward'...

[masterprtzl]

This is somewhat disapointing. You'd think it'd be more exicting for people to watch CTF or Capture and Hold than for people to watch 3v3 death match. The way this was presented, it seems like just a sidebar to the "real" pvp competition that is arena.

I hope they seriously consider having good premade teams play each other in tournaments. I would never be in one, but it sure would be a lot more fun to watch.

QQ moar they are letting you get full arena gear out of BGs- CRY MORE PLEASE!


they give you something you want- its never enough QQ

[sixkills]

It's better this way, this should end up the domination of the dk/paladin likes in arenas and, put more emphasis on previously neglicted aspects of pvp.

[dieseledge]

QQ moar they are letting you get full arena gear out of BGs- CRY MORE PLEASE!


they give you something you want- its never enough QQ

I got a better idea for the sub-1500 Mage with a 5o% winning percentage, who talks like an arena hero. (that even goes to all the 2K rated heroes)

Actually, read the information because you won't be getting jack from rated BGs let alone arena.

[masterprtzl]

I got a better idea for the sub-1500 Mage with a 5o% winning percentage, who talks like an arena hero. (that even goes to all the 2K rated heroes)

Actually, read the information because you won't be getting jack from rated BGs let alone arena.

Rofl
first off- rating doesnt stop anyones opinion; second of all, i have like what, 200 games played MAX? both of my arena partners had 17k hp when we started and were new 80s- RL friends

Also check the last date i played a game on my mage


stop trolling the post- i made a perfect point that people are NEVER satisfied.

also how am i talking like an arena hero? i stated my opinion nothing more- you are the one sounding like an ass.

[Eroginous]

You guys are missing the point. The reason why 5s and 3s are difficult brackets to play in is because of how hard it is to find dedicated players to create and maintain an arena team with. The team charter costs gold, and your advancement purely depends on being able to dedicate time each week with the same people you started with. You can add new players to your team but then you have to put in enough games to catch them up to your rating.

This is going to be much different. You remember how many people were in dalaran 15 mins before WG spamming trade for invites? Well that is what this will be like. People will sit in trade and quickly get enough people together to do premade BGs, and then do as many games as it takes to win one. There won't be the 'zomg I made a 5s team a month ago, did 10 games, and not a single member has logged on since.'

This will be MUCH different. You log in, you grab enough people to fill a group for a premade, and go queue. The incentive is rating, and if they did this with Arena, it would be so much better.

My only issue is that they talk about 'wanting to give players the choice of being able to acquire top end gear through either arena or BGs,' but then they talk about not wanting players to only do BGs for the rating.

You have to pick one and go with it, you can't have both. Telling players you want them to have the freedom to choose which PVP avenue to acquire gear from, but then making one much less viable than the other, is really a mixed message.

[dieseledge]

stop trolling the post- i made a perfect point that people are NEVER satisfied.

also how am i talking like an arena hero? i stated my opinion nothing more- you are the one sounding like an ass.

NOBODY asked for a system like this. Stop with the cliche response of no one is ever satisfied. You probably don't even know any of the details from the sound of it, because if you did, you wouldn't have posted your reply.

What Blizzard is doing is nothing remotely near what people wanted.

Learn to tell the difference between people with legitimate gripes and the morons bitching about the game becoming too easy because Spell Power and Attack Power are being removed.

[dieseledge]

This is going to be much different. You remember how many people were in dalaran 15 mins before WG spamming trade for invites? Well that is what this will be like. People will sit in trade and quickly get enough people together to do premade BGs, and then do as many games as it takes to win one. There won't be the 'zomg I made a 5s team a month ago, did 10 games, and not a single member has logged on since.'

Except it's not going to work that way. They are talking about limiting the rated battles to as low as 6 a week. So no you don't get as many chances as you can to win or bring up your rating. That in combination with the pre-made rule is going to make rated BGs much more exclusive. Not to mention, your ability to form these raids depends on your server. Now throw in the fact that cues are going to be much smaller. In other words, it's very possible to have bad luck and run into highly skilled pre-mades from guilds.

I really do feel sorry for all the BG heroes, who are going to get rolled by the high-end arena players. They really don't realize that not all arena player are tunnel vision players. I played arenas for 3 seasons and I'll tell you right now, playing arenas vastly improved my play in BGs. Playing in BGs actually made me worse in arena. The only way to improve at arena outside of it is to duel. Fact is, arena players are more organized than the vast majority of BGers and most BGers haven't run into many Gladiators. They will TC and strategize to the point that would be comparable to high end raiding guilds.

What i'm saying is, BGers are in for a very rude awakening.

Anyway, after tonight I'm locked out all the WoW sites. I hope I'm wrong and you guys have fun with whatever you decide to do with the new BG system.

[masterprtzl]

NOBODY asked for a system like this. Stop with the cliche response of no one is ever satisfied. You probably don't even know any of the details from the sound of it, because if you did, you wouldn't have posted your reply.

What Blizzard is doing is nothing remotely near what people wanted.

Learn to tell the difference between people with legitimate gripes and the morons bitching about the game becoming too easy because Spell Power and Attack Power are being removed.

actually ive seen at least 10 posts recently in the pvp forums asking for arena gear from BGs- thats what they are getting through a rated BG system


this will get MUCH MORE PEOPLE into Bgs! that alone makes it worth it


you are arguing for arguments sake- please stop responding to my posts

[dieseledge]

actually ive seen at least 10 posts recently in the pvp forums asking for arena gear from BGs- thats what they are getting through a rated BG system


this will get MUCH MORE PEOPLE into Bgs! that alone makes it worth it


you are arguing for arguments sake- please stop responding to my posts

You cannot with any intellectual honesty tell me that this is what those people had in mind.


What's worse is many of these people are talking trash now to gladiators like they don't know how to play BGs. They really haven't the slightest clue what they are in for.

[masterprtzl]

You cannot with any intellectual honesty tell me that this is what those people had in mind.


What's worse is many of these people are talking trash now to gladiators like they don't know how to play BGs. They really haven't the slightest clue what they are in for.

whats wrong with rated BGs?
whats wrong with the system they are making?

the match making rating is the only thing i hate- it failed in arena and iwll fail with this but other than that i think it will work and get tons more into BGs- myself included