1. #1

    Tree vs Resto Shammy

    i raid in a casual raiding guild on cruddy server , that being said we raid regularly and most of us have pretty decent gear (10/25 ulduar/ToC ) Every week we raid i find myself coming up 2nd on the meters to the resto shammy in my guild. we both raid heal but no matter what i can't seem to get ahead of him anywhere but thorim and hodir. His "jesus beams" just seem to pump out more heals then my hot's do on a regular basis. for raid heals i pretty much wild growth on cd and rejuv as much as i can with swiftmend or nourish for a quick bang where needed. i have the tier 8.5 bonus and when i got it i got closer but still cant seem to push over the top and become that leet tree i read all of you as being. he does have slightly better gear, but not enough to make that much difference . i dont live and die by the meters and with us both healing raid we really do a solid job but i would like to figure out how to maximize my output more . you can armory or wow-heroes me zattox on vashj .
    i would welcome any tips you might offer this frustrated tree .... (btw the shammy is ferkus on vashj ) onslaught is our guild .
    oh yes , i will add that if i drop to my t7.5 4pc bonus with the glyph of nourish i tank heal as well as any pally and i havent even added the improved ht points since patch so its just raid heals that i struggle to improve . ( i do throw hots on tanks where i can when raid healing.
    any input any of you have to help this noob tree out and help me improve would be great
    thanks

  2. #2

    Re: Tree vs Resto Shammy

    Make sure you have glyph of swiftmend, wild-growth, and rejuv (makes that 4p T8 hit harder against lowbies under 50% health). SP>int>Spi, and make sure you turn up your healbot/clique/xpearl sensitivity. Best of luck!

  3. #3

    Re: Tree vs Resto Shammy

    Trees suck at reactive healing, so the only way to top the healing meters (if that's your goal), is to anticipate damage and get your hots rolling in as many places where there is incoming damage as possible. If there is lots of consistent wide-spread damage across the raid, just roll rejuvs on the entire raid (and WG every CD) and you will be unbeatable (especially with rejuv idol and T8.5 bonus). If damage is more random and harder to predict, there is basically no way you will be able to compete with a resto shammy because it's basically WG vs Chain Heal, and well, you have a 6 sec CD.

    I would argue that in the latter case it is just silly to have a druid raid healing because you don't have the spells needed to get off quick heals to keep people from dying if you can't predict the damage ahead of time and pre-stack hots on the target. Regrowth is too slow, nourish is a waste of mana if it's not on an already hotted target, and WG and rejuv+swiftmend are not reliable enough with their CDs.

    Long story short, look for ways to predict incoming damage and anticipate it with your hots. Lots of steady damage to a target is what druids are best at healing.

  4. #4

    Re: Tree vs Resto Shammy

    Quote Originally Posted by zattox
    i dont live and die by the meters
    Then why are you posting about this? You said yourself you both do a solid job, thats all that matters, why should it matter who's first on a healing meter? Healing meters in a lot of situations are a poor way to judge performance.

    As long as you know you're doing a decent job, dont worry about it and concentrate on enjoying the game more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenkachii View Post
    I don't like to change into a kitten and hitting enemies with my paws and rabies, I like assassinating with daggers and poisons!

  5. #5

    Re: Tree vs Resto Shammy

    Make sure you have glyph of swiftmend, wild-growth, and rejuv (makes that 4p T8 hit harder against lowbies under 50% health). SP>int>Spi, and make sure you turn up your healbot/clique/xpearl sensitivity. Best of luck!
    Lol so you know the glyph doesn't affect the initial heal and that you havn't noticed that in your heals is laffable fyi the heals from the glyph show up seperatly in recount just so you know how little impact it has been having.
    Resto Druids, the best health care system

  6. #6

    Re: Tree vs Resto Shammy

    I thought blizz said that the 4 pc t8.5 wouldnt work with glyph of rejuv in the way we all hoped.

    Do you have proof that it works? (not trolling, im legitimately interested)

    I have swiftmend/WG/Nourish because i was under the impression the instant heal wasn't considered a rejuv tick when it came to the Spell Power coefficient and the glyph of rejuv.

    Did this change?

    As far as topping healing meters, its always myself and the holy priest raid healer that top it (he's very mana inefficient though). Basically I just keep regrowth/rejuv on the tank(s) (so i can swiftmend them if necessary) and then rejuv. the raid. I use Wild Growth primarily on the melee and use it every time it is off CD. Of course, for steelbreaker, hodir, mimiron phase 2/4 etc I just spam rejuv/WG and swiftmend for the larger spikes. Usually have no problem "beating" shammies tbh. Reason i have beating in quotes is because we dont really focus on healing meters at all in my guild. unlike dps, healing is very situational and is more of a team effort. anyone wasting mana can heal more than others. Our healing team focusses on deaths, and winning the fight to judge our success. only if we notice 1 person's assignment dying continually do we consult the healing meters to see what the problem is (its usually them trying to cross heal to other people's assignments too much)
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lethon&n=Boomkindance

  7. #7

    Re: Tree vs Resto Shammy

    A lot of the particulars about who 'win's the meters come down to what the total healer line up is and how many healers you're using for each encounter. If you're using 3 healers in 10 man then your hots may get more sniped than the shaman's CHs depending on who your 3rd healer is.

    For example suppose there's no paladin healer in your raid, or the paladin healer is not very good. If the shamans CHs primary target still has a big health deficit at the time it hits that makes a HUGE difference to his effective HPS versus if that target received a big heal already from a trigger happy pally.

    I guess my point here is even if you care about healing numbers, and I do, you shouldn't worry about 'being beaten' by a particular player in a particular raid comp. Worry about how your numbers compare with other players of your class, worry about whether you can push your numbers higher when your raid is running with one fewer healer than normal.

    I've seen two holy priests doing 2k hps each in a boss fight one week, then the next week running fewer healers one of them climbs to 4k and the other to 2.5k. I don't care who wins the meters when there's 7 healers in the raid, the better priest is the one who can step it up when there are only 5.

    There are two aspects to raid healing, filling bars and saving people. Meters are only telling you about the first of those, and the second is at least as important.

    Spec suggestions: Don't underestimate living seed, personally I'd have 3 points in there. Unless you're having serious mana issues, and from what I've seen no druids are, there's no need for 5 points in Tranquil spirit. You can drop a few and get some additional throughput talents - extra point in Natures Grasp for example.

    Having said all this I haven't raided much as tree - most of my healing has been as Disc/Holy priest, resto shaman and healadin.

  8. #8

    Re: Tree vs Resto Shammy

    thanks for the input so far to all of you . we also focus on the team approach and making sure we we all work together however there is always a bit of unspoken competition between us and to be honest it pushes us all to be better . yes the meters dont matter if every one lives and the boss goes down but its also fun to know you did the very best you could even if its more then was needed to get thru the fight ... We run a guild 10 man hard mode ulduar run each week which we 2 heal the tank heals job goes to our disc priest who kicks ass at it and the raid heals is always between me and the shammy ( happy to say he just got his enhance set up to par and has been dpsing in the 10 man while i heal to make room for both of us but we did compete over that raid heal spot and at least being close on the meters was something to make my case for the spot ..) its a game and its all for fun ( and i love it ) but if any of you cant admit you like to be at the top of the list once in a while your lying ... if nothing more then to know you did the best possible ...
    thanks i am new to this forum but have learned a lot from you all and reading your posts ...

  9. #9

    Re: Tree vs Resto Shammy

    A shammy always beats me on the meters lol..eh i dont care its just a silly meter what YOU shoudl care is if a completely under geared healer is beating you on the meters

    Before 3.2 i was a MT healer did really awesome and then 3.2 hit and boom i went flat i havent topped the meters in a while not sure why but its ok....i can get up there lately i have been noticing i am using wrong spells or i am not spamming one enough...in this case it would be WG ....rejuve and nourish are my main heals that i am currently using as a raid healer nourish though is only used on raid heals if necessary so i am not consuming TOO much mana and run outta mana on certain fights...when u look at my top three spells i use its always a toss up between nourish and rejuv depending on much damage pple are taking..... and i have the nourish/WG/ Swiftmend glyphs currently...i dont think i am doing anything wrong am i?

    The other druid in our guild is a raid healer as well and using nothing but rejuve WG..and nourish and nourish is always the one she uses the most and WG is the second one on the list.

    I have macros for my MTs that consist of a regrowth a rejuv and a nourish that i spam every once in awhile depending on who is MT heals....if its a pally i dont worry aobut it unless they die lol...a priest i get a little iffy at times and if they get to low..i pop the macro and they are back up to a decent amount of health

    i hope I havent been healing wrong :-\

  10. #10

    Re: Tree vs Resto Shammy

    The only advice i have for when it comes to healing meters is that they don't really matter as long as the bosses are going down and people aren't getting killed. I can suggest that you only run with 2 healers instead of 3. There isn't a non-hard mode encounter in there that requires 3 healers after your raid gets the hang of the fights. Even a lot of the hard modes are easily done with 2 healers.

    For pointers on your gear/spec/glyphs:
    i don't like your meta gem, but it isn't that big of a deal. Mana regen is a topic that comes up quite frequently on this board and there 2 schools of thought that resto's have. People like me would rather get enough mana regen to last a fight and then gem completely for spell power. Others would rather play it safe and get a ton more regen than they actually need.

    IMO extra regen is completely wasted regen since it does absolutely no good to finish a fight with your mana pool at 75% full and not even using your innervate (i'm exagerating a little here, but you get the point).

    The spirit gem in your chest - get rid of it. If you want to satisfy a blue socket bonus then go with a purified dreadstone or purified twilight opal (Sp/Spi)

    Get rid of all those haste gems. Spellpower is our #1 stat by a huge margin. Haste is compltely secondary. Don't ever gem for it. We get enough from our gear is do what we need it to do. If you feel that you need more then get it through gear upgrades. If you are mostly doing 10 man progression then haste capping isn't as big of a deal - less people to roll hots on so less need to get down on the GCD cap.

    Drop a few points out of tranquil spirit and put it deeper in the resto tree (preferably living seed). Tranquil spirit is a huge talent expenditure just to reduce the cost of a spell that you will only use situationally. Also, nourish is already pretty cheap to cast so talenting for it isn't really needed IMO.

    Your glyphs are standard, so no problem there.

    You said that you have the T8 4 piece set bonus? or did i misread that part? If you do, use that in almost all situations where you are raid healing. Only use your T7 for when you are strictly healing a tank.

  11. #11

    Re: Tree vs Resto Shammy

    Quote Originally Posted by lyps
    1) Trees suck at reactive healing, so the only way to top the healing meters

    2) I would argue that in the latter case it is just silly to have a druid raid healing because you don't have the spells needed to get off quick heals to keep people from dying

    3) nourish is a waste of mana

    4) WG and rejuv+swiftmend are not reliable enough with their CDs.
    1) any good raid healing druid will already have the hots ticking or will have enough to swiftmend a target within 2 seconds. if swiftmend is on CD, nourish is prefectly suited for this role hots or no hots.

    2) you have no clue what you are talking about. we make the best raid healers in the game because we can run hots on an entire raid and snipe spikes before somebody else has a chance to. We also do it with much more mana effeciency than the other healers.

    3) nourish is actually very cheap to cast compared to other direct heals and provides all the oomph you need to keep somebody alive with or without hots. Hots obviously making it much more powerful.

    4) used correctly and in conjunction with regrowth/nourish the cooldowns on these abilities is perfectly balanced. Any slack created by the WG CD can easily be taken up by rejuv or hitting the people with single stacks of LB and letting it run off afterward.

  12. #12

    Re: Tree vs Resto Shammy

    I usually find myself just hot everything with my mighty rejuv ^^

    5x rejuv 1x wg -repeat- with 4tier 8 you can stretch your rotation to 16-17 targets with rejuv rolling, assuming you do nothing else. You do that on all fights with ae damage and you'll be fine. (ignis, council, xt, kolo, hodir, mimi, thorim hm, freya hm) in All other fights, snipe targets that get damage with t8 bonus and swiftmend/nourish if needed.
    Speaking in Numbers: ~8-9k hps on council hm without any skill required (sadly)
    There is absolutly no way anyone can beat that hps, hpm and overall healing.

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